Cork developments

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

It can be taken to judicial review, but the costs of such are prohibitive in most cases (usually touching six figures minimum

The fact that ABP effectively rubber stamped it is a great sign. Normally judicial reviews are taken when ABP are the lone approver (such as the M28 or strategic housing developments). Different gravy altogether when there’s 2 approvers. The EIS for this is more than 1000 pages. Tower Holdings put Herculean work into getting this right.

Fingers crossed they get moving on this and explore options for similar stunning infills.

Hopefully

Judicial reviews are of the process, not the decision, plaintiffs would have to be able to show where the process was flawed.

marno21

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Hopefully

Judicial reviews are of the process, not the decision, plaintiffs would have to be able to show where the process was flawed.

Indeed. But they are a useful tactic to objectors as a delaying process even if they prove to be unsuccessful.

Not sure if the crew here would be financially able for a job like this though

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Indeed. But they are a useful tactic to objectors as a delaying process even if they prove to be unsuccessful.

Not sure if the crew here would be financially able for a job like this though

Doubt it. A few cranks it appears.

(Incidentally, the JR of the incinerator is ongoing, they seemed to have succeeded in 2 of 11 grounds for review, whether the decision is quashed due soon).

Apogee

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40250306.html

RTE wrote:

The green light for the €140m development at Custom House Quay in Cork City centre was given today subject to 23 conditions.

The 23 conditions include the appointment of a conservation expert to manage, monitor and implement works on the site, the provision of 20 car parking spaces, a detailed log of the existing buildings' historic features be lodged with the Irish Architectural Archives, and an archaeological appraisal of the site is carried out. The developer will also be required to submit detailed plans on traffic and waste management during construction, as well as submitting further details on the planned maritime-themed visitor centre, and the operation of the pontoon on Custom House Quay. Financial contributions will also have to be paid to Cork City Council in respect of public infrastructure and facilities benefiting development in the area, and towards road improvement works in the vicinity before the development can go ahead.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0324/1205841-ireland-tallest-building-cork/

Irish Times wrote:

It is understood the hotel will be run by Marriott International, which made a submission to Cork City Council planners backing the project and who run a 31-storey hotel in redeveloped industrial area Long Island City, New York which was built by Times Square Construction, the contracting division of Mr O’Sullivan’s business.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-to-get-ireland-s-tallest-building-in-150m-development-1.4519274

Larbre34

Pesky Corkonians.

Us Dubs will have to approve Johnny Ronans 45 storey towers asap!!

ofcork

Treehelpplease wrote: »

probably the camden quay stuff. here and skyscrapercity seems to get news a lot more before the papers these days when it comes to developments

Whats happening with camden quay is that finally going to happen?

blindsider

@Ofcork - re Camden Quay...

Planning has been submitted acc. to the very knowledgeable folk on Skyscraper city
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/cork-moxy-hotel-residents-inn-camden-place-pine-street-7-fls-planning.2284202/page-2

Looks like quite a few extra hotel beds for the city.

Does this suggest that the Events Centre will proceed too?

I've seen pronouncements from our politicians and Council staff, and I don't believe a word they spout - they're charlatans the lot of them!

Dare we hope that Cork Crane Count on the Twitter machine will be busy?

gourcuff

great to see cork go up.. dublin is so conservative and stuck in the mud... great to see proper urban development to give irish cities a skyline..

the beer revolu

That's going to be twice the height of the Elysian! Some people won't like that. I do like the height.

While I don't think it's a particularly beautiful building, I do like its scale and boldness on that site. I'm thrilled this has gotten the go ahead as there aren't any other plans on the table.

I much preferred the design with the tower pushed forward to the apex of the site. I find little to like about the design other than the proportions, really but it might look way better in real life.
But, I'd rather have this project here in the near future rather than nothing for another 15 years. It's very exciting and I can't wait to see it go up!

It's going to be massive!

the beer revolu

Larbre34 wrote: »

Pesky Corkonians.

Us Dubs will have to approve Johnny Ronans 45 storey towers asap!!

Ha ha.
So far it's been.
Dublin, Cork, Cork, Dublin, (next Cork?)
Liberty Hall, County Hall, Elysian, Capital Dock, (next Custom House Tower?).

Very back and forth but with Cork holding the staff from 1968 to 2018. Dublin needs to get it's act together!

marno21

the beer revolu wrote: »

That's going to be twice the height of the Elysian! Some people won't like that. I do like the height.

While I don't think it's a particularly beautiful building, I do like its scale and boldness on that site. I'm thrilled this has gotten the go ahead as there aren't any other plans on the table.

I much preferred the design with the tower pushed forward to the apex of the site. I find little to like about the design other than the proportions, really but it might look way better in real life.
But, I'd rather have this project here in the near future rather than nothing for another 15 years. It's very exciting and I can't wait to see it go up!

It's going to be massive!

There's places in Ireland for those people to relocate where they can be happily surrounded by two storey buildings. Skibbereen for one.

Strong contrasts being drawn between Cork and Dublin today. Dublin City Council coming out en masse against a 45 storey apartment building in an area of chronic shortage of build to sell apartments in an area surrounded by large scale office development. Cork City Council welcoming the construction of a world class hotel skyscraper that will be a focal point for the city and a massive attraction in the region.

Dublin has destroyed several acres of prime development land in the Docklands with shoebox office developments instead of creating a new city core. Now there's calls to relocate Dublin Port to have a second crack at a proper regeneration. Thankfully we have a blank canvas down here in the South Docks and Tivoli to make a world class regenerated waterfront core.

CorkCraneCount

blindsider wrote: »

@Ofcork - re Camden Quay...

Planning has been submitted acc. to the very knowledgeable folk on Skyscraper city
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/cork-moxy-hotel-residents-inn-camden-place-pine-street-7-fls-planning.2284202/page-2

Looks like quite a few extra hotel beds for the city.

Does this suggest that the Events Centre will proceed too?

I've seen pronouncements from our politicians and Council staff, and I don't believe a word they spout - they're charlatans the lot of them!

Dare we hope that Cork Crane Count on the Twitter machine will be busy?

😂 Very busy! Though the tower won't account for many cranes because it's so slender. Even before this news, the amount of stuff that has happened in March is crazy. Taken together, it's very positive for next period for Cork

who_me

the beer revolu wrote: »

Ha ha.
So far it's been.
Dublin, Cork, Cork, Dublin, (next Cork?)
Liberty Hall, County Hall, Elysian, Capital Dock, (next Custom House Tower?).

Very back and forth but with Cork holding the staff from 1968 to 2018. Dublin needs to get it's act together!

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

questionmark?

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

Christ when you put it like that it's great for Cork.

Scooby Reggie do

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

What are the 2nd and 3rd?

rounders

Scooby Reggie do wrote: »

What are the 2nd and 3rd?

Albert Quay apartments and the apartments heading out the south link I guess? The second one was a flip site though

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

Tbf Dublin have built two tall buildings since the recession, Cork have built none. We've had lots of flashy proposals but so far the biggest piece of action on any of the sites has been knocking down a pub. Unlike Dublin, getting planning isn't a major hurdle, starting construction is. We've had the Mahon Tower, Albert Quay Tower, South Link Tower, The Prism and the Sullivans Quay tower all sit delelict for years after planning.

who_me

rounders wrote: »

Albert Quay apartments and the apartments heading out the south link I guess? The second one was a flip site though

Second is the Albert Quay development alright, the 3rd is the Mahon Point tower.

The planned building on the South Link (Railway Gardens) would have 17 floors but would be less than 60m tall.

Mav11

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

Diziet

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

No outrage from me, I completely agree with you!

thomil

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek: )

Well, what makes Cork so special then? As someone who moved here from abroad, and who has had quite a few visitors since then, it's definitely not the cityscape, which is bland, messy, unorganised and run down! It's the people, the pubs, the dining and the surroundings that stick in the mind, not the absolute mess that is the city centre.

In addition, has it ever occurred to you that building up a skyline might give Cork something that is unique in an Irish context? Because Dublin certainly doesn't have a skyline, neither do Limerick or Galway.

Treehelpplease

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

I wonder if 100s of years ago did anyone consider that turning a marsh into a city centre would ruin what Cork is, two main streets and lanes off it. Or i wonder if anyone considered that covering off canals to make patrick st, grand parade and south mall would ruin what makes Cork so special. Or how about building huge stone buildings on the south mall instead of georgian houses made outta brick. Or expanding from not just the city centre island but into ridge and hills of the northside and the flatter southside. or how about building even further into the hills of the southside

Cork never was and never will be one static thing. What makes Cork Cork grows and evolves.

i also don't know of any quirky buildings (idek many quirky ones) being knocked or lanes being closed off

SleetAndSnow

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

I'd consider a 34 story building, right where the river divides, connected to currently very run down but to be redeveloped and used buildings very quirky. It still makes cork stand out, tallest building title returned

Mav11

I was just asking, but I see that all predictable responses are ignoring the "mini Dublin" aspect! Any thoughts on what will differentiate Cork city then? Not the tallest building!

Mav11

thomil wrote: »

Well, what makes Cork so special then?

Its special to me as it is the place that I, my parents, grandparents etc were born and reared!

the beer revolu

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

No outrage or backlash from me - differing views should be allowed and listened to. However, I strongly disagree with your position.

We've had generations of tearing down old charming buildings and replacing them with similar sized bland versions of what was there.

This project will actually preserve the old vaults to a reasonable degree, I believe, and provide a lovely waterside public space. Nothing is being destroyed - we aren't losing and lanes or streets.

Half our laneways are under lock and key, anyway. I'd like to see that sorted out.

fonecrusher1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40250621.html

An Taisce still moaning about it: “Cork’s skyline is a city of church towers and steeples. This tower would represent an enormous change in the character of the city’s skyline,” spokesman Ian Lumley said.

Yes Ian its called progress....

Before the Elysian the most dominant feature in Corks "skyline" around the Port of Cork / Docklands area was the bloody R&H Hall silo.




Honestly they'll never get it.

the beer revolu

Mav11 wrote: »

I was just asking, but I see that all predictable responses are ignoring the "mini Dublin" aspect! Any thoughts on what will differentiate Cork city then? Not the tallest building!

Explain how having a very tall building makes Cork a "Mini Dublin".
Dublin isn't even a high rise city.

Honesty, I think it was ignored because people cant'n find anything in that claim.

Mav11

the beer revolu wrote: »

Explain how having a very tall building makes Cork a "Mini Dublin".
Dublin isn't even a high rise city.

Honesty, I think it was ignored because people cant'n find anything in that claim.

I think that the explanation lies in the question, what will differentiate Cork city then?
I'm not arguing against development, god knows it is badly needed in places. I'm simply asking are the current proposals appropriate development?

Mav11

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40250621.html

An Taisce still moaning about it: “Cork’s skyline is a city of church towers and steeples. This tower would represent an enormous change in the character of the city’s skyline,” spokesman Ian Lumley said.

Yes Ian its called progress....

Before the Elysian the most dominant feature in Corks "skyline" around the Port of Cork / Docklands area was the bloody R&H Hall silo.




Honestly they'll never get it.

See post 6990 re "appropriate development".