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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Mav11

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I wasn't responding to you. So no thanks.

I was responding to you, but as you wish.

fonecrusher1

Mav11 wrote: »

See post 6990 re "appropriate development".

I wasn't responding to you. So no thanks.

Mav11

the beer revolu wrote: »

[HTML][/HTML]

Well, what would you suggest?
I'm genuinely curious.
How would you stop this from happening?

I don't know.

I'm not a city planner or architect. The question was genuinely posed, could a little more imagination have been used or is high rise the only way to go? Or is Cork too small for that height and scale with low rise the way to go?

the beer revolu

[HTML][/HTML]

Mav11 wrote: »

Being its own place, not a smaller version of London, Dublin etc. would be differentiation enough.

I've lived in Dublin now almost as long as I've lived in Cork and TBH I am increasingly seeing very little difference between both city's.

Well, what would you suggest?
I'm genuinely curious.
How would you stop this from happening?

Mav11

the beer revolu wrote: »

Being a different city in a different location with a very different population level and different history, perhaps?

Why are so many Cork people obsessed with Dublin?

Why dose Cork need to differentiate itself from anywhere? It can just be its own place.

Being its own place, not a smaller version of London, Dublin etc. would be differentiation enough.

I've lived in Dublin now almost as long as I've lived in Cork and TBH I am increasingly seeing very little difference between both city's.

the beer revolu

Mav11 wrote: »

I think that the explanation lies in the question, what will differentiate Cork city then?
I'm not arguing against development, god knows it is badly needed in places. I'm simply asking are the current proposals appropriate development?

Being a different city in a different location with a very different population level and different history, perhaps?

Why are so many Cork people obsessed with Dublin?

Why dose Cork need to differentiate itself from anywhere? It can just be its own place.

Mav11

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40250621.html

An Taisce still moaning about it: “Cork’s skyline is a city of church towers and steeples. This tower would represent an enormous change in the character of the city’s skyline,” spokesman Ian Lumley said.

Yes Ian its called progress....

Before the Elysian the most dominant feature in Corks "skyline" around the Port of Cork / Docklands area was the bloody R&H Hall silo.

Honestly they'll never get it.

See post 6990 re "appropriate development".

Mav11

the beer revolu wrote: »

Explain how having a very tall building makes Cork a "Mini Dublin".
Dublin isn't even a high rise city.

Honesty, I think it was ignored because people cant'n find anything in that claim.

I think that the explanation lies in the question, what will differentiate Cork city then?
I'm not arguing against development, god knows it is badly needed in places. I'm simply asking are the current proposals appropriate development?

the beer revolu

Mav11 wrote: »

I was just asking, but I see that all predictable responses are ignoring the "mini Dublin" aspect! Any thoughts on what will differentiate Cork city then? Not the tallest building!

Explain how having a very tall building makes Cork a "Mini Dublin".
Dublin isn't even a high rise city.

Honesty, I think it was ignored because people cant'n find anything in that claim.

fonecrusher1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40250621.html

An Taisce still moaning about it: “Cork’s skyline is a city of church towers and steeples. This tower would represent an enormous change in the character of the city’s skyline,” spokesman Ian Lumley said.

Yes Ian its called progress....

Before the Elysian the most dominant feature in Corks "skyline" around the Port of Cork / Docklands area was the bloody R&H Hall silo.

Honestly they'll never get it.

the beer revolu

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

No outrage or backlash from me - differing views should be allowed and listened to. However, I strongly disagree with your position.

We've had generations of tearing down old charming buildings and replacing them with similar sized bland versions of what was there.

This project will actually preserve the old vaults to a reasonable degree, I believe, and provide a lovely waterside public space. Nothing is being destroyed - we aren't losing and lanes or streets.

Half our laneways are under lock and key, anyway. I'd like to see that sorted out.

Mav11

thomil wrote: »

Well, what makes Cork so special then?

Its special to me as it is the place that I, my parents, grandparents etc were born and reared!

Mav11

I was just asking, but I see that all predictable responses are ignoring the "mini Dublin" aspect! Any thoughts on what will differentiate Cork city then? Not the tallest building!

SleetAndSnow

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

I'd consider a 34 story building, right where the river divides, connected to currently very run down but to be redeveloped and used buildings very quirky. It still makes cork stand out, tallest building title returned

Treehelpplease

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

I wonder if 100s of years ago did anyone consider that turning a marsh into a city centre would ruin what Cork is, two main streets and lanes off it. Or i wonder if anyone considered that covering off canals to make patrick st, grand parade and south mall would ruin what makes Cork so special. Or how about building huge stone buildings on the south mall instead of georgian houses made outta brick. Or expanding from not just the city centre island but into ridge and hills of the northside and the flatter southside. or how about building even further into the hills of the southside

Cork never was and never will be one static thing. What makes Cork Cork grows and evolves.

i also don't know of any quirky buildings (idek many quirky ones) being knocked or lanes being closed off

thomil

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek: )

Well, what makes Cork so special then? As someone who moved here from abroad, and who has had quite a few visitors since then, it's definitely not the cityscape, which is bland, messy, unorganised and run down! It's the people, the pubs, the dining and the surroundings that stick in the mind, not the absolute mess that is the city centre.

In addition, has it ever occurred to you that building up a skyline might give Cork something that is unique in an Irish context? Because Dublin certainly doesn't have a skyline, neither do Limerick or Galway.

Diziet

Mav11 wrote: »

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

No outrage from me, I completely agree with you!

Mav11

Just asking, but did anyone consider that these developments might be damaging the things that make Cork special, (atmosphere, quirky buildings, lanes etc.) and simply turning it into a mini Dublin? (Waits for the outrage and backlash :eek:)

who_me

rounders wrote: »

Albert Quay apartments and the apartments heading out the south link I guess? The second one was a flip site though

Second is the Albert Quay development alright, the 3rd is the Mahon Point tower.

The planned building on the South Link (Railway Gardens) would have 17 floors but would be less than 60m tall.

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

Tbf Dublin have built two tall buildings since the recession, Cork have built none. We've had lots of flashy proposals but so far the biggest piece of action on any of the sites has been knocking down a pub. Unlike Dublin, getting planning isn't a major hurdle, starting construction is. We've had the Mahon Tower, Albert Quay Tower, South Link Tower, The Prism and the Sullivans Quay tower all sit delelict for years after planning.

rounders

Scooby Reggie do wrote: »

What are the 2nd and 3rd?

Albert Quay apartments and the apartments heading out the south link I guess? The second one was a flip site though

Scooby Reggie do

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

What are the 2nd and 3rd?

questionmark?

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

Christ when you put it like that it's great for Cork.

who_me

the beer revolu wrote: »

Ha ha.
So far it's been.
Dublin, Cork, Cork, Dublin, (next Cork?)
Liberty Hall, County Hall, Elysian, Capital Dock, (next Custom House Tower?).

Very back and forth but with Cork holding the staff from 1968 to 2018. Dublin needs to get it's act together!

Yeah, if the all the proposed developments in the city go ahead (unlikely, admittedly), it'll also mean building the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th tallest buildings in the country. The 4th being Capitol Dock and 5th being the Elysian.

So yeah: c'mon Dublin, whaya got? [pokes Dublin with stick] are youuuu chicken???

CorkCraneCount

blindsider wrote: »

@Ofcork - re Camden Quay...

Planning has been submitted acc. to the very knowledgeable folk on Skyscraper city
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/cork-moxy-hotel-residents-inn-camden-place-pine-street-7-fls-planning.2284202/page-2

Looks like quite a few extra hotel beds for the city.

Does this suggest that the Events Centre will proceed too?

I've seen pronouncements from our politicians and Council staff, and I don't believe a word they spout - they're charlatans the lot of them!

Dare we hope that Cork Crane Count on the Twitter machine will be busy?

😂 Very busy! Though the tower won't account for many cranes because it's so slender. Even before this news, the amount of stuff that has happened in March is crazy. Taken together, it's very positive for next period for Cork

marno21

the beer revolu wrote: »

That's going to be twice the height of the Elysian! Some people won't like that. I do like the height.

While I don't think it's a particularly beautiful building, I do like its scale and boldness on that site. I'm thrilled this has gotten the go ahead as there aren't any other plans on the table.

I much preferred the design with the tower pushed forward to the apex of the site. I find little to like about the design other than the proportions, really but it might look way better in real life.
But, I'd rather have this project here in the near future rather than nothing for another 15 years. It's very exciting and I can't wait to see it go up!

It's going to be massive!

There's places in Ireland for those people to relocate where they can be happily surrounded by two storey buildings. Skibbereen for one.

Strong contrasts being drawn between Cork and Dublin today. Dublin City Council coming out en masse against a 45 storey apartment building in an area of chronic shortage of build to sell apartments in an area surrounded by large scale office development. Cork City Council welcoming the construction of a world class hotel skyscraper that will be a focal point for the city and a massive attraction in the region.

Dublin has destroyed several acres of prime development land in the Docklands with shoebox office developments instead of creating a new city core. Now there's calls to relocate Dublin Port to have a second crack at a proper regeneration. Thankfully we have a blank canvas down here in the South Docks and Tivoli to make a world class regenerated waterfront core.

the beer revolu

Larbre34 wrote: »

Pesky Corkonians.

Us Dubs will have to approve Johnny Ronans 45 storey towers asap!!

Ha ha.
So far it's been.
Dublin, Cork, Cork, Dublin, (next Cork?)
Liberty Hall, County Hall, Elysian, Capital Dock, (next Custom House Tower?).

Very back and forth but with Cork holding the staff from 1968 to 2018. Dublin needs to get it's act together!

the beer revolu

That's going to be twice the height of the Elysian! Some people won't like that. I do like the height.

While I don't think it's a particularly beautiful building, I do like its scale and boldness on that site. I'm thrilled this has gotten the go ahead as there aren't any other plans on the table.

I much preferred the design with the tower pushed forward to the apex of the site. I find little to like about the design other than the proportions, really but it might look way better in real life.
But, I'd rather have this project here in the near future rather than nothing for another 15 years. It's very exciting and I can't wait to see it go up!

It's going to be massive!

gourcuff

great to see cork go up.. dublin is so conservative and stuck in the mud... great to see proper urban development to give irish cities a skyline..

blindsider

@Ofcork - re Camden Quay...

Planning has been submitted acc. to the very knowledgeable folk on Skyscraper city
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/cork-moxy-hotel-residents-inn-camden-place-pine-street-7-fls-planning.2284202/page-2

Looks like quite a few extra hotel beds for the city.

Does this suggest that the Events Centre will proceed too?

I've seen pronouncements from our politicians and Council staff, and I don't believe a word they spout - they're charlatans the lot of them!

Dare we hope that Cork Crane Count on the Twitter machine will be busy?