New R&A Rules from 1/1/19

spacecoyote

So, I know that there is the drop for an OB ball coming in, but is there also a lost ball rule coming in (ie, no OB on the hole, but ball just can't be found)?

HighLine

Russman wrote: »

The video and the diagram below cover it nicely. You don't get to go back to the middle of the fairway, at best you'll get two club lengths into the fairway from the nearest edge, not nearer the hole than where you estimate the ball is lost.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

It's still allowing you to drop on the fairway, albeit not the middle. That's even more farcical IMO. And it's actually a complex system for doing it.

In particular the procedure for a lost ball. Don't understand the need for the initial 2 club length measurement given the arc will be so wide as to include the fairway. Players don't even know how to correctly drop a ball as it is!

Seve OB

spacecoyote wrote: »

So, I know that there is the drop for an OB ball coming in, but is there also a lost ball rule coming in (ie, no OB on the hole, but ball just can't be found)?

that's the way i read the whole of the rule.

another reason why i think it stinks

Russman

HighLine wrote: »

It's still allowing you to drop on the fairway, albeit not the middle. That's even more farcical IMO. And it's actually a complex system for doing it.

In particular the procedure for a lost ball. Don't understand the need for the initial 2 club length measurement given the arc will be so wide as to include the fairway. Players don't even know how to correctly drop a ball as it is!

I guess its to give the option of going to the "far" side of assumed area where the ball is lost ? Although why anyone would take that I've no idea. I dunno, just seems wrong tbh. The whole idea of not having to get your ball around the whole course.

I suppose we'll get used to the new rules over time, we're just so accustomed to playing golf a certain way which, from reading threads on Golfwrx, is totally, totally different to the way they play in the States. There seems to be a lot less adherence to some rules and a big desire to get rid of stroke and distance. I'm almost surprised they didn't go with allowing relief from divots, which was another mad idea that gained some traction online !

HighLine

Russman wrote: »

I guess its to give the option of going to the "far" side of assumed area where the ball is lost ? Although why anyone would take that I've no idea. I dunno, just seems wrong tbh. The whole idea of not having to get your ball around the whole course.

I suppose we'll get used to the new rules over time, we're just so accustomed to playing golf a certain way which, from reading threads on Golfwrx, is totally, totally different to the way they play in the States. There seems to be a lot less adherence to some rules and a big desire to get rid of stroke and distance. I'm almost surprised they didn't go with allowing relief from divots, which was another mad idea that gained some traction online !

I actually think (or hope) most Irish clubs won't implement the rule.

As for American golf, I think playing stableford format more would help speed things up.

Seve OB

Russman wrote: »

I guess its to give the option of going to the "far" side of assumed area where the ball is lost ? Although why anyone would take that I've no idea. I dunno, just seems wrong tbh. The whole idea of not having to get your ball around the whole course.

I suppose we'll get used to the new rules over time, we're just so accustomed to playing golf a certain way which, from reading threads on Golfwrx, is totally, totally different to the way they play in the States. There seems to be a lot less adherence to some rules and a big desire to get rid of stroke and distance. I'm almost surprised they didn't go with allowing relief from divots, which was another mad idea that gained some traction online !

I think relief from divots is OK. After all, you hit a good shot, find the fairway and then you find yourself with a bad lie. Granted, more often than not you will be able to hit a clean enough shot from a divot, but sometimes it is just not possible so why should you be penalised for finding the fairway

Russman

Seve OB wrote: »

but sometimes it is just not possible so why should you be penalised for finding the fairway

I'd argue its luck of the game, its not played in a vacuum so there needs to be some element of chance surely. If you got a bounce off a tree into the middle of the fairway you wouldn't look to drop it back in the woods !

Plus there would be the whole area of "what's a divot" ?!

Webbs

Russman wrote: »

I'd argue its luck of the game, its not played in a vacuum so there needs to be some element of chance surely. If you got a bounce off a tree into the middle of the fairway you wouldn't look to drop it back in the woods !

Plus there would be the whole area of "what's a divot" ?!

The element of chance thing I have seen argued as well for bunkers in that they shouldnt be raked as they are a 'hazard'.

Russman

HighLine wrote: »

I actually think (or hope) most Irish clubs won't implement the rule.

I dunno, I'd say there will be such a groundswell of support for it, that committees will have to implement it tbh.

I agree it seems against a lot of what we know/think, but, really, will it have a huge impact in the overall scheme of things ? I think in a lot of cases the guy will simply be playing his 4th shot from reasonably close to where he likely would have hit his provisional to anyway (or 3rd shot, had he walked back). How many times have we seen a guy hit a great provisional and mutter "should have done that the first time" ? More often than not I'd argue.

Russman

Webbs wrote: »

The element of chance thing I have seen argued as well for bunkers in that they shouldnt be raked as they are a 'hazard'.

There's definitely an argument there too. I know I've been in someone's heel print in a bunker a lot more often than I've been in a divot on the fairway !
I think it comes back to the idea of play it as it lies.

Jawgap

Seve OB wrote: »

I think relief from divots is OK. After all, you hit a good shot, find the fairway and then you find yourself with a bad lie. Granted, more often than not you will be able to hit a clean enough shot from a divot, but sometimes it is just not possible so why should you be penalised for finding the fairway

From a practical perspective I think relief from divots should've been included - it doesn't help courses to have golfers coming along and making existing divots bigger and deeper.

I've been in deep divots (no relief) and shallow animal scrapes where you do get relief - personally, I think divots should be treated as GUR.

frink

Jawgap wrote: »

From a practical perspective I think relief from divots should've been included - it doesn't help courses to have golfers coming along and making existing divots bigger and deeper.

I've been in deep divots (no relief) and shallow animal scrapes where you do get relief - personally, I think divots should be treated as GUR.

Agreed and sanded divots. I know Rosslare treat sanded divots as GUR but think that is a local rule

Jawgap

frink wrote: »

Agreed and sanded divots. I know Rosslare treat sanded divots as GUR but think that is a local rule

Plus, if they included divots, it would save certain golfers from having to carry pocket loads of rabbit sh!t to sprinkle around divots when their ball comes to rest in one and they want free relief :D:D

charlieIRL

RoadRunner wrote: »

Hope @charlieIRL doesn't see this!

I thought we agreed never to mention that again!!!! :D

backspin.

There appears to be a whole host of new rules and changes coming in from Jan 2019.

Lots of details here: https://www.rules.golf/

Anyone any opinions on them?

I like the fact you will not need to remove the flag when putting, although i hope it doesn't result in people not bothering removing the flag at all.

They seem to be talking about a new local rule for balls hit out of bounds. You can drop in the vicinity where it went out of bounds rather than having to hit again of the tee.

Rikand

I like most of them.

Don't like dropping at out of bounds. Just plain wrong and you know fine well some golfers will take serious liberties with it. I like that golf is black and white for the most part, but that only adds more grey areas.

Having said that, I don't like grounding your club in a hazard either. Hazard is a hazard, but being able to ground will remove a grey area I suppose

charlieIRL

Rikand wrote: »

I like most of them.

Don't like dropping at out of bounds. Just plain wrong and you know fine well some golfers will take serious liberties with it. I like that golf is black and white for the most part, but that only adds more grey areas.

Having said that, I don't like grounding your club in a hazard either. Hazard is a hazard, but being able to ground will remove a grey area I suppose

Can you imagine the amount of lads who are going to “place the club” behind the ball when setting up.....and flattening down any rough etc so they will get clean contact?
Like you said, a hazard is a hazard. Stay out of them.

charlieIRL

I’ll embed this when I get to my computer

backspin.

I found something on the out of bounds local rule. At 3.55 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rg4FjECZ-8

If you drive your ball out of bounds and you choose to drop in the vicinity where the ball went out of bounds you will then be hitting your 4th shot from that spot.

Rikand

backspin. wrote: »

I found something on the out of bounds local rule. At 3.55 mins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rg4FjECZ-8

If you drive your ball out of bounds and you choose to drop in the vicinity where the ball went out of bounds you will then be hitting your 4th shot from that spot.

But under the current rules there's no telling how many times you might have hit it out of town.

The rule change means you only have to go OOB once

backspin.

Rikand wrote: »

But under the current rules there's no telling how many times you might have hit it out of town.

The rule change means you only have to go OOB once

Yeah it just adds another option. If your first shot was a complete horror that went OB about 50 yards from the tee you might be better to take your chances and reload off the tee. If it was a reasonable shot that just trickled out of bounds further up the hole you could use the drop option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptafkz3XjYg

It looks like you can drop back onto the fairway and play from there as your 4th shot if you are taking relief under this new local rule.

slingerz

backspin. wrote: »

Yeah it just adds another option. If your first shot was a complete horror that went OB about 50 yards from the tee you might be better to take your chances and reload off the tee. If it was a reasonable shot that just trickled out of bounds further up the hole you could use the drop option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptafkz3XjYg

It looks like you can drop back onto the fairway and play from there as your 4th shot if you are taking relief under this new local rule.

usually find that second chance means a drive out the middle anyway!

HighLine

Already thread on the topic here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057851052 ... perhaps a mod could join the two?

HighLine

As mentioned in the other thread, I am completely against the Stoke and Distance rule. Not only is it open to abuse and completely against the spirit of the game but the actual relief options are complex and time consuming and will lead to more confusion. Most players don't know how to correctly take a drop yet alone the procedures below...

HighLine wrote: »

It's still allowing you to drop on the fairway, albeit not the middle. That's even more farcical IMO. And it's actually a complex system for doing it.

In particular the procedure for a lost ball. Don't understand the need for the initial 2 club length measurement given the arc will be so wide as to include the fairway. Players don't even know how to correctly drop a ball as it is!

Deep Thought

ForeRight wrote: »

I've seen balls lost in rough or what appeared to be perfect from the tee in play lots of times.

So you'd have people searching for a ball for 3 minutes to then have to go walk all the way back and hit again. There is always someone then on the tee waiting to play. It's a horrible situation then add in all this happening on a hole that has danger off the tee like OOB or a bottle neck of trees tee shot. The person hits OOB or into the trees in a medal.

I can see how easily a course can turn to shambolic pace quite quickly

We introduced a local rule over the Winter that if you lost the ball then you could drop it in the vicinity once you playing partners agreed under penalty.

FixdePitchmark

Mad thing.

I have used the lost ball rule above in a society I run - they are all beginners

It is an embarrassingly daft rule - and am a bit shocked it is coming into the game.

Nemesis

Is the max increase of one shot to your handicap over a year based on your starting h'cap or your lowest h'cap?.

Or is it that your just allowed ten 0.1's over the year?.

Russman

Nemesis wrote: »

Is the max increase of one shot to your handicap over a year based on your starting h'cap or your lowest h'cap?.

Or is it that your just allowed ten 0.1's over the year?.

Its based on your lowest during the year

Russman

I think on balance most of the new rules make sense and are ok., bearing in mind I'd say they were primarily driven by the US "market" where its generally a very different mindset to golf and following the rules. There's a bit of reading in them though, I had a quick scan of the new rule book and I think almost everything is different or under a new rule.

I don't like not having to inform anyone that you're going to pick up your ball to identify it - that's a little bit too far for me tbh.

I'm fine with the new OOB rules, its a two shot penalty after all. Also you can't take the new option if you hit a provisional, so the choice is made before you know where the provo ends up.

It'll take a bit of time to adjust but I think we'll get to grips with them.

One thing I'm glad they didn't touch was giving relief from divots, I mean seriously, WTF !! Can you imagine the debates over whether a bad lie on the fairway was an old divot, a partially filled in one, some overspill from sand used to fill in a divot, just a small depression in the ground etc etc etc.
Its rub of the green, man up and play the f--king thing as it lies. In 30 years I'd say I could count the number of times I've been in a divot on the fingers of one hand (ironically one of them was yesterday !:)). I've definitely got more good bounces into the fairway from trees than I have got bad lies in a divot.

slingerz

Russman wrote: »

I think on balance most of the new rules make sense and are ok., bearing in mind I'd say they were primarily driven by the US "market" where its generally a very different mindset to golf and following the rules. There's a bit of reading in them though, I had a quick scan of the new rule book and I think almost everything is different or under a new rule.

I don't like not having to inform anyone that you're going to pick up your ball to identify it - that's a little bit too far for me tbh.

I'm fine with the new OOB rules, its a two shot penalty after all. Also you can't take the new option if you hit a provisional, so the choice is made before you know where the provo ends up.

It'll take a bit of time to adjust but I think we'll get to grips with them.

One thing I'm glad they didn't touch was giving relief from divots, I mean seriously, WTF !! Can you imagine the debates over whether a bad lie on the fairway was an old divot, a partially filled in one, some overspill from sand used to fill in a divot, just a small depression in the ground etc etc etc.
Its rub of the green, man up and play the f--king thing as it lies. In 30 years I'd say I could count the number of times I've been in a divot on the fingers of one hand (ironically one of them was yesterday !:)). I've definitely got more good bounces into the fairway from trees than I have got bad lies in a divot.

i'm ok with the lost ball rule as well. Going back to tee in strokes comp after finding that your OOB is a disaster. playing 4 is a sufficent penalty i feel