Buildy-uppy thread: Ire vs Scot

Buer

swiwi_ wrote: »

What rules has Owens made up. Examples please.

I think making his own rules up is a bit of a stretch but he certainly has a unique interpretation of tackling/contact on a player in the air and I was absolutely baffled by his call to disallow Danny Care's intercept against Scotland.

It might have been the right call (which is open to debate) but it was not the correct way to reach that decision whatsoever. If he believed it was a penalty he should have either blown it up or called advantage. Instead he let play go and when the ball was intercepted decided to bring it back.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

I think making his own rules up is a bit of a stretch but he certainly has a unique interpretation of tackling/contact on a player in the air and I was absolutely baffled by his call to disallow Danny Care's intercept against Scotland.

It might have been the right call (which is open to debate) but it was not the correct way to reach that decision whatsoever. If he believed it was a penalty he should have either blown it up or called advantage. Instead he let play go and when the ball was intercepted decided to bring it back.

Every ref has his interpretations. All rugby forums love a good ref whinge. Owens has lost a bit of form but he’s by no means become terrible. As has been said many times before the best teams and coaches adapt to the ref and minimise his impact. I’ve no doubt Schmidt will have a plan for Barnes.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

I think making his own rules up is a bit of a stretch but he certainly has a unique interpretation of tackling/contact on a player in the air and I was absolutely baffled by his call to disallow Danny Care's intercept against Scotland.

It might have been the right call (which is open to debate) but it was not the correct way to reach that decision whatsoever. If he believed it was a penalty he should have either blown it up or called advantage. Instead he let play go and when the ball was intercepted decided to bring it back.

James Lowe was tackled in the air by Andrew Conway and the reason that Owens gave for not penalising Conway certainly doesn't exist in any current rule book.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

James Lowe was tackled in the air by Andrew Conway and the reason that Owens gave for not penalising Conway certainly doesn't exist in any current rule book.

He also gave James Lowe a lecture about leading with the knee.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

James Lowe was tackled in the air by Andrew Conway and the reason that Owens gave for not penalising Conway certainly doesn't exist in any current rule book.

I think in his efforts to be somewhat fair and show an element of common sense (both quite subjective things) he's been a bit creative at times. I generally don't mind it too much, but it does lead to a some technically questionable decisions. And sometimes people will look at that stuff and think "ah yeah grand, sure it makes sense" and other times they'll react badly. That's what happens when you get a bit creative with the laws though. Not everyone will agree with it, or see the sense in it.

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

I think in his efforts to be somewhat fair and show an element of common sense (both quite subjective things) he's been a bit creative at times. I generally don't mind it too much, but it does lead to a some technically questionable decisions. And sometimes people will look at that stuff and think "ah yeah grand, sure it makes sense" and other times they'll react badly. That's what happens when you get a bit creative with the laws though. Not everyone will agree with it, or see the sense in it.

For me, the problem with that is the fact that we've been force fed duty of care/recklessness etc. for the past few years when it comes to challenging a player in the air. Owens goes against that fairly clearly. If it's not deliberate or extremely reckless, it's fair game.

That's his interpretation which is generally fine but that's an issue for me when we've been seeing almost every referee attempting to remove clumsy/sloppy challenges in the air where there isn't a genuine contest.

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

Scotland did Ireland an absolutely enormous favour

well, we'll see if that is the case after the 27th.

PTH2009

very nervous about this game

They were pretty impresive against France and England and terrible vs Wales. Lets hope its the Scotland that played Wales that will show up in Dublin

On paper we should be winning it. Best thing is to go for the BP and have the title almost wrapped up before we head to England

Rememeber Scotland beat us in the last game to be played in Croke Park in 2010 costing us the triple crown, we were expected to win that game fairly handy

For some reason I keep reading the thread title as Ireland vs Uppity-Scotland

molloyjh

Aegir wrote: »

well, we'll see if that is the case after the 27th.

I think no matter what way you cut it they did us a favour. If we can't take advantage of that it's another thing, but that they set us up with a 5 point lead going into the last 2 rounds can be nothing more than a very big favour.

turnikett1

PTH2009 wrote: »

Rememeber Scotland beat us in the last game to be played in Croke Park in 2010 costing us the triple crown, we were expected to win that game fairly handy

Ugh, that deflated feeling on that day equals very few bad rugby days I've ever felt. Honestly, it was up there with 2007 6N and 2015 RWC. It's one thing losing at home, but losing at home to that Scottish team... truly woeful.

Like many people here I can't make up my mind whether or not I'm confident or nervous. My only concern is if Ringer is a bit rusty. However, he is better at defending the wide channels than Farrell (or Earls ), if he seamlessly slots back in I would feel very confident. If he shows rust and can't keep up with Scotland's pace then I will worry.

I know Scotland haven't won away since 2010 but I don't buy into these stats. They are always meant to be broken. Remember how much everyone was saying "Wales have beaten Scotland in their last 10 meetings" last year or even this year "Scotland have failed to score a try against in England at home since 2004 (?)" etc, they will be broken and there is really no reason why their inevitable big away 6N win couldn't come this weekend. I think it's wrong to look to their Wales game, they look more settled and are buoyed by a magnificent win. They are lethal out wide and we are muck out wide. I think the Scots will be coming with a bit of pzazz and rightfully so - I don't see a repeat of Wales happening. They beat Aus away last year and I know the 6N is a different kettle of fish but that belief to win away does exist in the team.

PTH2009

turnikett1 wrote: »

Ugh, that deflated feeling on that day equals very few bad rugby days I've ever felt. Honestly, it was up there with 2007 6N and 2015 RWC. It's one thing losing at home, but losing at home to that Scottish team... truly woeful.

Like many people here I can't make up my mind whether or not I'm confident or nervous. My only concern is if Ringer is a bit rusty. However, he is better at defending the wide channels than Farrell (or Earls ), if he seamlessly slots back in I would feel very confident. If he shows rust and can't keep up with Scotland's pace then I will worry.

I know Scotland haven't won away since 2010 but I don't buy into these stats. They are always meant to be broken. Remember how much everyone was saying "Wales have beaten Scotland in their last 10 meetings" last year or even this year "Scotland have failed to score a try against in England at home since 2004 (?)" etc, they will be broken and there is really no reason why their inevitable big away 6N win couldn't come this weekend. I think it's wrong to look to their Wales game, they look more settled and are buoyed by a magnificent win. They are lethal out wide and we are muck out wide. I think the Scots will be coming with a bit of pzazz and rightfully so - I don't see a repeat of Wales happening. They beat Aus away last year and I know the 6N is a different kettle of fish but that belief to win away does exist in the team.

A victory in that 2010 game would of been a great send off for our brief time in Croke Park but wasant meant to be. Played 14 games there from Feb 2007-March 2010 and only lost 4 games, drew 1 and won 9 (including great wins over England, France and world champs at the time South Africa)

Buer

PTH2009 wrote: »

A victory in that 2010 game would of been a great send off for our brief time in Croke Park but wasant meant to be. Played 14 games there from Feb 2007-March 2010 and only lost 4 games, drew 1 and won 9 (including great wins over England, France and world champs at the time South Africa)

I'd have thought that 9 wins from 14 is a very poor home record when I see it written out like that.

aloooof

Buer wrote: »

I'd have thought that 9 wins from 14 is a very poor home record when I see it written out like that.

Doesn't look especially impressive, and certainly not favourable compared to Schmidt's record at home. Off the top of my head, the only home games I can think of that we've lost under Schmidt are New Zealand (twice) and Australia in his first game in charge? Two of those were in his first international window as manager, I think. And he's never lost a 6 Nations game at home.

Interested Observer

aloooof wrote: »

Doesn't look especially impressive, and certainly not favourable compared to Schmidt's record at home. Off the top of my head, the only home games I can think of that we've lost under Schmidt are New Zealand (twice) and Australia in his first game in charge? Two of those were in his first international window as manager, I think. And he's never lost a 6 Nations game at home.

Yes that's it, we also drew against Wales the other year. He has lost no 6N games in Dublin as you say which is a fine record in 5 seasons. I've love to find the figures again but his win % for Leinster and Ireland combined is incredible, think it approaches 80%.

We started to slip immediately after the 2009 win under Kidney imo. There were some highs like beating Aus and England in 2011 but they were papering over the cracks.

jr86

PTH2009 wrote: »

A victory in that 2010 game would of been a great send off for our brief time in Croke Park but wasant meant to be. Played 14 games there from Feb 2007-March 2010 and only lost 4 games, drew 1 and won 9 (including great wins over England, France and world champs at the time South Africa)

Despite the sentiment around that 2007 massacre, England were absolutely muck in that period (by their general standards) bar bizarrely reaching a RWC final. The 2009 match was one of the worst I've ever seen live. Guys like a completely passed-it Tindall, passed-it Cueto, Lipman, Lund, Vainokolo were part of the set up in that era

9 from 14 really doesn't look great looking back. No doubt we're a far more formidable force at home now

Dubinusa

Any kind of win would suit me fine.

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

For some reason I keep reading the thread title as Ireland vs Uppity-Scotland

A bit like the Irish lad posting from the States. At first I was like Dubi Nusa, that’s unusual.

pickarooney

swiwi_ wrote: »

A bit like the Irish lad posting from the States. At first I was like Dubi Nusa, that’s unusual.

I only just realised it wasn't Dublin, USA.

Burkie1203

Rumour. Fairly predictable one.

Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, PoM, Leavy, Stander, Murray, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Ringrose, Earls, Kearney

McGrath, Cronin, Porter, Toner, Conan, Marmion, Carbery, McFadden

Dubinusa

53 yr old north strand boyo gentlemen. just ould jackeen in Massachusetts. Love my rugby though. It is becoming quite popular over here. The USA will be a strong side fairly soon.

PTH2009

Interested Observer wrote: »

He has lost no 6N games in Dublin as you say which is a fine record in 5 seasons. I'.

Hope you didn't jinx things now and Scotland end up giving Joe his first 6N home loss this weekend

Zzippy

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hope you didn't jinx things now and Scotland end up giving Joe his first 6N home loss this weekend

Any of ye, like me, not morning people? Any of ye hate those bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, perma-cheery people who breeze into the office on a sh1te day going on about how lovely the rain is, and how lucky we are to live in such a great place?

Yeah, well, I don't think PTH is one of those people... welcome, friend! If ever we needed a hero to step in to a groupthink giddy "we're going to win a grand slam" party, and say "Nay! Beware the Scot!" and remind us all that we're not New Zealand, it's PTH. Legend.

typhoony

typhoony wrote: »

while we seem to be losing players Scotland have several players returning from injury, I remember the game in Croke Park where we supposed to win easily and they turned us over. we could do with Seymour not recovering from injury.

Team Announced and Kinghorn replaces the injured Seymour, a very different type of player and definitely a lot easier for us to defend against.

Dave_The_Sheep

Former Former

Maybe it's my green-tinted specs and my comparatively low knowledge of Scottish rugby, but I just don't think that Scottish team should be too much for us to handle.

If we keep it relatively tight, no aimless kicks back to them in space, try not to get caught narrow in defence (again), I think we can win this.

Ireland to win without a bonus point I'd say.

stephen_n

Thought they had Richie Gray and Fagerson back for this one? We should both on paper and on the pitch be able to beat that team. Baring a team malfunction, I’d say we will win this comfortably. Not expecting a low scoring game though.

Clegg

I'm very wary of Scotland. They looked dangerous in the opening 20 against Wales and it was their own mistakes in attack which Wales capitalised on to get the early lead. We'll have to be so focused in on the ruck and breakdown to deprive them of as much ball as possible.

Interested Observer

stephen_n wrote: »

Thought they had Richie Gray and Fagerson back for this one? We should both on paper and on the pitch be able to beat that team. Baring a team malfunction, I’d say we will win this comfortably. Not expecting a low scoring game though.

They just beat England for the first time in a decade, those two guys you mention have no match fitness, so they shouldn't really have been brought in imo.

It could open up if Scotland are aiming for the bonus point