New Worldwide Handicap System

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

I don't agree with you on that. Your handicap should be your average surely. Does it say it anywhere in the handicap regs that you have to play very well to beat your handicap? I've played to my handicap or better probably 60% of the rounds I have played this year, so i have the wrong handicap?

If it was supposed to be your average then it would be calculated based on your average!
There also wouldnt be a 0.1 max increase no matter how badly you play.

Think about it, under CONGU you can shoot 100 over nett and still only get 0.1 back.
But you shoot 1 under nett and you lose anywhere from 1 - 0.1

Its not designed to be anything like your average, its specifically aimed at capturing your potential, to avoid fellas having nett 57s.

GreeBo

Seve OB wrote: »

as your get better and lower, it is much harder to play to your handicap on a regular basis. i can't play to 10. in fact i've only ever shot better than +10 on my home course once, thats in 30 years of playing it, that was about a month ago, i shot +7. sure ive played easier courses and shot scores, but not a lot.

ultimately if you don't play a lot of golf and throw in some practice, than you are not going to play to your handicap and can't expect to. doesn't make it unfair.



nope.
and from what i can figure out, your handicap index on the new system won't actually be your average and not even your average of your best 8 by the time you throw in all the permutations and combinations. (stand to be corrected though )

The new one is still weighted towards your potential, since it takes your *best* 8 out of last 20.

On average people play badly. And by definition average means half the time you are much better and half the time much worse. The std deviation of scores for most people is very high, very few are consistent golfers.

So if you used a true average your handicap would jump all over the place and the scores required to win would be unreal.

I also dont know how you would factor in what to cut someone, it would be like everyone having their own css...that way madness lies!

GreeBo

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not really possible to manipulate CSS these days with software packages running the comps. CSS is automatically calculated and incorporated in the results. The problem with CSS is that it's a very blunt instrument. In a club with a lot of members and largish entries in competitions, you have almost infinite variations of people in the buffers. So every time it's a different cohort that bring the CSS up and the ones that get cut may end up being the cohort the next time. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

The one big impact at the moment is NRs, especially from lower category golfers, its a pita that needs to be sanctioned imo.

prawnsambo

GreeBo wrote: »

The new one is still weighted towards your potential, since it takes your *best* 8 out of last 20.

On average people play badly. And by definition average means half the time you are much better and half the time much worse. The std deviation of scores for most people is very high, very few are consistent golfers.

So if you used a true average your handicap would jump all over the place and the scores required to win would be unreal.

I also dont know how you would factor in what to cut someone, it would be like everyone having their own css...that way madness lies!

I don't know about half the time being much better. My example above out of 23 qualifying comps so far, got me two cuts, seven buffers and two just outside my buffer. So I would say half the time I was close enough to my handicap and half the time I was worse. And really it was much worse. I would imagine that this would be pretty much most people's experience where they have a decent number of qualifying competitions.

DuckSlice

GreeBo wrote: »

The one big impact at the moment is NRs, especially from lower category golfers, its a pita that needs to be sanctioned imo.

is there anything in the new system to address them? sometimes they leave them out in our comps sometimes they put them in, seems to be completely random when they do it.

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

is there anything in the new system to address them? sometimes they leave them out in our comps sometimes they put them in, seems to be completely random when they do it.

AFAIK under WHS, you can/have to provide a valid reason for your NR.
Still wooly.

GreeBo

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't know about half the time being much better. My example above out of 23 qualifying comps so far, got me two cuts, seven buffers and two just outside my buffer. So I would say half the time I was close enough to my handicap and half the time I was worse. And really it was much worse. I would imagine that this would be pretty much most people's experience where they have a decent number of qualifying competitions.

Exactly, which is why both UHS and WHS are weighted towards your good scores (potential).

Being a game of skill, its far easier to score badly than score well.
Reducing the game to 1 hole, its obviously easier to score +3 than -3.

prawnsambo

GreeBo wrote: »

The one big impact at the moment is NRs, especially from lower category golfers, its a pita that needs to be sanctioned imo.

One problem with NRs, is with strokeplay competitions. You get a lot of people 'scratching' a hole which (even though they submit their card) results in a NR unless the Handicap Secretary picks it up and disqualifies them instead (the correct approach).

GreeBo

prawnsambo wrote: »

One problem with NRs, is with strokeplay competitions. You get a lot of people 'scratching' a hole which (even though they submit their card) results in a NR unless the Handicap Secretary picks it up and disqualifies them instead (the correct approach).

There was also a bug in HandicapMaster that turned any stableford card that had a no score on any hole into an overall NR :eek:
So basically the same issue across all comp types, I cant imagine what it did for VPar!

Russman

prawnsambo wrote: »

One problem with NRs, is with strokeplay competitions. You get a lot of people 'scratching' a hole which (even though they submit their card) results in a NR unless the Handicap Secretary picks it up and disqualifies them instead (the correct approach).

TBH, once the card is submitted, I've no issue at all with their being a scratch on a hole and thus a NR from a scoring perspective. Its the guys who enter and then don't submit a card at all that I have a gripe with. I've found over the years its usually the low Cat1 guys who want to hold onto a vanity handicap are guilty of this.
I mean I can completely understand a guy, heading to shoot millions, doesn't find his ball on the 15th and doesn't bother to go back, as long as he returns the card.
Can the HC Sec disqualify them if the card is returned ? I'm not sure (but open to correction) he can.

prawnsambo

Russman wrote: »

TBH, once the card is submitted, I've no issue at all with their being a scratch on a hole and thus a NR from a scoring perspective. Its the guys who enter and then don't submit a card at all that I have a gripe with. I've found over the years its usually the low Cat1 guys who want to hold onto a vanity handicap are guilty of this.
I mean I can completely understand a guy, heading to shoot millions, doesn't find his ball on the 15th and doesn't bother to go back, as long as he returns the card.
Can the HC Sec disqualify them if the card is returned ? I'm not sure (but open to correction) he can.

In strokeplay yes. The rule is failing to hole out in strokeplay. DQ.

slingerz

Will comps under winter rules or reduced number of holes count for this

gypsy79

slingerz wrote: »

Will comps under winter rules or reduced number of holes count for this

No

slingerz

gypsy79 wrote: »

No

Thanks for that. My course will be winter rules by 2nd November so will that mean we won’t see the new calculations?

hurleronditch

slingerz wrote: »

Will comps under winter rules or reduced number of holes count for this

n the US there was a big push for “play 9, post 9” encouraging people to play 9 hole golf and post it for handicap. I wonder will it come across here.

It always felt funny that you could play 9 on a Monday morning in one course, then 9 again on a Tuesday afternoon on a completely different course maybe in a different state, and the two would be meshed together and count as one of your 8 best for handicap.

Will it happen here if there are 9 hole comps in places I wonder?

hurleronditch

slingerz wrote: »

Will comps under winter rules or reduced number of holes count for this

n the US there was a big push for “play 9, post 9” encouraging people to play 9 hole golf and post it for handicap. I wonder will it come across here.

It always felt funny that you could play 9 on a Monday morning in one course, then 9 again on a Tuesday afternoon on a completely different course maybe in a different state, and the two would be meshed together and count as one of your 8 best for handicap.

Will it happen here if there are 9 hole comps in places I wonder?

gypsy79

slingerz wrote: »

Thanks for that. My course will be winter rules by 2nd November so will that mean we won’t see the new calculations?

Well the calculations will be required to get your new handicap index and the playing handicap you will use until you enter more qualifying rounds

You could play an open at qualifying course

Or try 'declare' a round and hope 7 others also enter scores that day under qualifying conditions. I am not completely clear how this bit will work!

Seve OB

slingerz wrote: »

Will comps under winter rules or reduced number of holes count for this

gypsy79 wrote: »

No

looks to me like you have bundled the two questions together. it does appear that the winter rules won't be qualifying alright which is a disappointment.
reduced number of holes do count for handicap purposes, 9 holes is fine, but obviously not under the winter rules.
what is daft though is that a lot of clubs run 10, 12, 14 etc. hole comps etc over the winter and at different points during the year but these will not be acceptable for handicap purposes even if played during regular season rules

slingerz wrote: »

Thanks for that. My course will be winter rules by 2nd November so will that mean we won’t see the new calculations?

my understanding is that you will have a new handicap as the system will take your existing scores on golf net and use them to form the basis for your new handicap. obviously they need to be adjusted based on the new rules with slope/course rating/playing conditions etc and i've no idea if they plan to make adjustments or just take them at face value for a starting point. i imagine the latter. then you just need to add scores, which for you and most golfers in ireland will be impossible till march or april next year.

on that basis, i suppose it is a clever time for them to introduce the WHS, to let people get used to the idea and changes without having to worry about what is going on.

kieran.

How will societies manage the new WHS system. Will they just stick to there own ad hoc systems?

The wonderfish

Looking to rejoin a golf club in 2021 and start playing a bit more, not a member this year and haven’t played any comps in about 5years, purely casual golf as family commitments came into play. Hope to change that in 2021 and starting playing more club comps etc. Looking to know where I stand, do I have to wait until I have played 8 qualifying rounds to get a playing handicap?

Mantis Toboggan

The wonderfish wrote: »

Looking to rejoin a golf club in 2021 and start playing a bit more, not a member this year and haven’t played any comps in about 5years, purely casual golf as family commitments came into play. Hope to change that in 2021 and starting playing more club comps etc. Looking to know where I stand, do I have to wait until I have played 8 qualifying rounds to get a playing handicap?

No 54 holes required to get a handicap.
Handicap will probably bounce around a bit until you've played more rounds.

newport2

Seve OB wrote: »

looks to me like you have bundled the two questions together. it does appear that the winter rules won't be qualifying alright which is a disappointment.
reduced number of holes do count for handicap purposes, 9 holes is fine, but obviously not under the winter rules.
what is daft though is that a lot of clubs run 10, 12, 14 etc. hole comps etc over the winter and at different points during the year but these will not be acceptable for handicap purposes even if played during regular season rules



my understanding is that you will have a new handicap as the system will take your existing scores on golf net and use them to form the basis for your new handicap. obviously they need to be adjusted based on the new rules with slope/course rating/playing conditions etc and i've no idea if they plan to make adjustments or just take them at face value for a starting point. i imagine the latter. then you just need to add scores, which for you and most golfers in ireland will be impossible till march or april next year.

on that basis, i suppose it is a clever time for them to introduce the WHS, to let people get used to the idea and changes without having to worry about what is going on.

You can submit a casual round towards your handicap provided you register it on the computer before teeing off. I wonder will you be able to do this over the winter if you don't play winter rules? ie just play the ball as it lies in your round.

TheFarneyman

Hi,
Have had the chipping yips the last year and a bit and have gone back a full 2.0 in my handicap since, full 1.0 last year and this. I've since sorted it out in the last month to 6 weeks but haven't played any competitive golf but back playing to my handicap of 2 years ago roughly. I did the calculations and i reckon due to the terrible scores i've had i'm going to be about 3/4 above my current handicap which would be 5/6 above what I'm playing too. Is there something that takes in =to consideration a level you were playing to or is it solely on your last 20 rounds?

Russman

TheFarneyman wrote: »

Hi,
Have had the chipping yips the last year and a bit and have gone back a full 2.0 in my handicap since, full 1.0 last year and this. I've since sorted it out in the last month to 6 weeks but haven't played any competitive golf but back playing to my handicap of 2 years ago roughly. I did the calculations and i reckon due to the terrible scores i've had i'm going to be about 3/4 above my current handicap which would be 5/6 above what I'm playing too. Is there something that takes in =to consideration a level you were playing to or is it solely on your last 20 rounds?

I think theres some mention of “previously demonstrated ability” but realistically if you’ve improved or gone back to where you should be, your first few rounds will sort it out as the new system is much more current than the old one.

SuburbanHomeboy

Ok, here’s my question.

When I take my best 8 of 20 and average them out I get 10.5.
All of these rounds are on the same course off the same tees where the slope is 128.

In order to find my handicap index do I divide 10.5 by 128 and multiply by 113 ?

Or is there some other method of “equalizing” my 10.5 with the 10.5 of another player who has returned the same scores as me on a more difficult course?

DuckSlice

Did you get the 10.5 yourself or use the calculator? search WHS calculator and it should be the first one that comes up.

Russman

SuburbanHomeboy wrote: »

Ok, here’s my question.

When I take my best 8 of 20 and average them out I get 10.5.
All of these rounds are on the same course off the same tees where the slope is 128.

In order to find my handicap index do I divide 10.5 by 128 and multiply by 113 ?

Or is there some other method of “equalizing” my 10.5 with the 10.5 of another player who has returned the same scores as me on a more difficult course?

As far as I understand it you need to plug your 20 scores into the whs calculator to get your initial handicap index. Two of the fields to complete are for slope and course ratings, depending on what tees you played off in each round.
After that process, two people with an index of 10.5 should in theory be of the same ability/level. He might be off 12 on his home course if it’s more difficult or off 9 on your course if it’s easier.

SuburbanHomeboy

Thanks folks
I worked out that for my best 8 I am 84 over so divided by 8 to get 10.5 - I didn't use the calculator.

But it then occurred to me that not all 84 overs divided by 8 are created equal and I wondered what formula existed to take care of that. I shall get myself to that calculator now....

Russman

SuburbanHomeboy wrote: »

Thanks folks
I worked out that for my best 8 I am 84 over so divided by 8 to get 10.5 - I didn't use the calculator.

But it then occurred to me that not all 84 overs divided by 8 are created equal and I wondered what formula existed to take care of that. I shall get myself to that calculator now....

Someone posted a link to it 10 pages or so back in the thread....

Russman

dan_ep82 wrote: »

https://www.calculator.net/golf-handicap-calculator.html

Plug em in there

Here it is