New Worldwide Handicap System

Mushy · 30-09-2020 7:05pm

Seve OB wrote: »

its called rounding.
i think so, but not as simple as that. i think what you need to do is first you will take your exact handicap index and get your course handicap from some chart and then have to work out 95% of it. at that point you will round.

im sure i'll probably be corrected, but i don't think im far off the mark in simple terms

Sounds convoluted. Did my best 8 scores in some calculator thing using home course rating and slope, came out at 9.9 (current 11.6), so no idea where to go now to try work it out unless that chart is available

Seve OB · 30-09-2020 8:10pm

Mushy wrote: »

Sounds convoluted. Did my best 8 scores in some calculator thing using home course rating and slope, came out at 9.9 (current 11.6), so no idea where to go now to try work it out unless that chart is available

so 9.9 will be your index
your club will produce a chart.
it could well mean that you will be playing off 12.

i am almost a flip of that.
current is 9.9, but my index under new system will be 11.1 based on my last 20 rounds on golfnet.

Mushy · 30-09-2020 8:15pm

Seve OB wrote: »

so 9.9 will be your index
your club will produce a chart.
it could well mean that you will be playing off 12.

i am almost a flip of that.
current is 9.9, but my index under new system will be 11.1 based on my last 20 rounds on golfnet.

Here was I hoping I'd get a route to single figures! Cheers though, understand it a bit more

Seve OB · 30-09-2020 8:25pm

Mushy wrote: »

Here was I hoping I'd get a route to single figures! Cheers though, understand it a bit more

a 9.9 index though could also mean that you might be playing off 9...

all depends on the course

prawnsambo · 30-09-2020 9:35pm

Seve OB wrote: »

so 9.9 will be your index
your club will produce a chart.
it could well mean that you will be playing off 12.

i am almost a flip of that.
current is 9.9, but my index under new system will be 11.1 based on my last 20 rounds on golfnet.

That may not be wholly accurate. Depends on whether you had scratches on those rounds, so your adjusted gross score could be lower by a few shots.

hurleronditch · 30-09-2020 9:45pm

Russman wrote: »

And maybe even if you want to GET an ESR :D

Actually joking aside, would it be fair to say that one of the biggest differences we'll see in real world use is that, at the moment you know when the results and CSS are posted, what you got cut (or not), whereas under the new system you'll have to wait til you log in next time you play to find out what your index has changed to ? Assuming you don't have that calculator handy !

In the US you input your scores into the GHIN app after a round. Your handicap stays as it is until
It updates (which will be daily in Ireland I believe), but it gave you a “trending” number. So if you were off 10.0 you shot the lights out and went around in +2 on Saturday, once you input that card to the app it immediately told you that you were trending to 8.3 or whatever it might be, so you’d know immediately where you stood.

I haven’t heard any plans for the Irish system to be that advance but if it updates nightly we should be fine anyways

hurleronditch · 30-09-2020 9:47pm

Seve OB wrote: »

can never understand how a club has such a high CSS all the time.

if it is an easy course, by default the members handicaps would be lower, thus meaning scoring would be lower and the CSS would in turn be lower.

It would help to keep more members in handicap range for various interclub teams, no?

gypsy79 · 30-09-2020 9:48pm

Has anyone heard what rules will be used for teams competitions next year?

hurleronditch · 30-09-2020 9:51pm

etxp wrote: »

Maybe im looking at it wrong, I say it was punishing as he could never play to it. Maybe mentally he just couldn't have going from 10 to 7 in one go.

Well if he had 44 off of 10, he played a round in +2 gross, and then had 40 off probably 8, for +4 gross, I think it’s fair to say he’s more than well able to play off 7.

Rikand · 30-09-2020 9:59pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Has anyone heard what rules will be used for teams competitions next year?

They're probably waiting to see how Covid works out

Seve OB · 30-09-2020 10:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

That may not be wholly accurate. Depends on whether you had scratches on those rounds, so your adjusted gross score could be lower by a few shots.

are you talking about my scores?

i put in the adjusted gross when i was calculating

Seve OB · 30-09-2020 10:11pm

hurleronditch wrote: »

It would help to keep more members in handicap range for various interclub teams, no?

that would sound like the club is cheating if you ask me.

prawnsambo · 30-09-2020 10:18pm

Seve OB wrote: »

that would sound like the club is cheating if you ask me.

It's not really possible to manipulate CSS these days with software packages running the comps. CSS is automatically calculated and incorporated in the results. The problem with CSS is that it's a very blunt instrument. In a club with a lot of members and largish entries in competitions, you have almost infinite variations of people in the buffers. So every time it's a different cohort that bring the CSS up and the ones that get cut may end up being the cohort the next time. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

Seve OB · 30-09-2020 10:30pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not really possible to manipulate CSS these days with software packages running the comps.

yes would have thought that to be the case

prawnsambo wrote: »

CSS is automatically calculated and incorporated in the results. The problem with CSS is that it's a very blunt instrument. In a club with a lot of members and largish entries in competitions, you have almost infinite variations of people in the buffers. So every time it's a different cohort that bring the CSS up and the ones that get cut may end up being the cohort the next time. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

still don't get it. im in a club with a lot of members and competitions when run are not just large, they basically fill the whole day. CSS rarely goes more that 37 or lower than 35

gypsy79 · 30-09-2020 10:39pm

Seve OB wrote: »

yes would have thought that to be the case

still don't get it. im in a club with a lot of members and competitions when run are not just large, they basically fill the whole day. CSS rarely goes more that 37 or lower than 35

CSS cannot go up more than 1. 3 is the minimum it can go down

prawnsambo · 30-09-2020 10:40pm

Seve OB wrote: »

yes would have thought that to be the case

still don't get it. im in a club with a lot of members and competitions when run are not just large, they basically fill the whole day. CSS rarely goes more that 37 or lower than 35

That's very large. As opposed to largish. I'm talking about around 80-100 entries. Sometimes even less. With really big numbers, statistically it will always tend towards par. But with the mid range, you don't get that smoothing. It's like what you said about handicaps. People rarely score to their handicap and that comes out in the CSS.

prawnsambo · 30-09-2020 10:43pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

CSS cannot go up more than 1. 3 is the minimum it can go down

Do you mean maximum? Because CSS can go down more than 3. It just becomes RO then.

gypsy79 · 30-09-2020 10:46pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Do you mean maximum? Because CSS can go down more than 3. It just becomes RO then.

Oooopps yes I did

How wil RO be treated in WHS. I had one last week

gypsy79 · 30-09-2020 10:51pm

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prawnsambo · 30-09-2020 10:53pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Oooopps yes I did

How wil RO be treated in WHS. I had one last week

I don't think it comes into play. Handicaps being part of a rolling average, some people in what would have been a RO comp don't have any change to their handicap anyway. And of course there's no CSS.

Seve OB · 01-10-2020 12:38am

prawnsambo wrote: »

I don't think it comes into play. Handicaps being part of a rolling average, some people in what would have been a RO comp don't have any change to their handicap anyway. And of course there's no CSS.

i don't think so either
wasnt it that there just had to be 8 scores in on the day for the conditions adjustment to be met and that would only be a 1 shot swing so i would imagine that unless there is not enough scores posted, then your card would be default to the normal course conditions

sorry, maybe im talking gibberish now, its late and i can't find it!

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 9:34am

Seve OB wrote: »

i don't think so either
wasnt it that there just had to be 8 scores in on the day for the conditions adjustment to be met and that would only be a 1 shot swing so i would imagine that unless there is not enough scores posted, then your card would be default to the normal course conditions

sorry, maybe im talking gibberish now, its late and i can't find it!

No, I think you're right. But afaik, it's up to three strokes.

Russman · 01-10-2020 10:32am

etxp wrote: »

I don't agree with you on that. Your handicap should be your average surely. Does it say it anywhere in the handicap regs that you have to play very well to beat your handicap? I've played to my handicap or better probably 60% of the rounds I have played this year, so i have the wrong handicap?

This isn't the document I remember seeing before, but on page 3 under the heading "Competition Play" one of the lines states that your handicap is calculated so that you are only likely to play within your buffer zone in one third of your rounds.

http://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Players-quick-guide.pdf

I think the GUI over the years have never got the message out that your handicap is not meant to be your average, and the idea that it is has gained almost complete acceptance with golfers.

Anyway its all changing in 4 weeks !!

prawnsambo · 01-10-2020 10:40am

Russman wrote: »

This isn't the document I remember seeing before, but on page 3 under the heading "Competition Play" one of the lines states that your handicap is calculated so that you are only likely to play within your buffer zone in one third of your rounds.

http://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Players-quick-guide.pdf

I think the GUI over the years have never got the message out that your handicap is not meant to be your average, and the idea that it is has gained almost complete acceptance with golfers.

Anyway its all changing in 4 weeks !!

I wonder are they starting with the data and working back to the rule?

This year I've 7 buffers, 2 cuts and the rest 0.1s (1 RO) from qualifying competitions. Pretty much one third buffers. Mr. Average; me.

Russman · 01-10-2020 10:54am

prawnsambo wrote: »

I wonder are they starting with the data and working back to the rule?

This year I've 7 buffers, 2 cuts and the rest 0.1s (1 RO) from qualifying competitions. Pretty much one third buffers. Mr. Average; me.

I think that's probably not far off the mark. IIRC they did some kind of survey of, I dunno, 10k or 100k rounds from amateurs and found the classic bell curve when the graphed the data. I suspect that's where the "you only play to your handicap once every seven rounds came from" !

I'm not far off average either, 15 rounds, 1 cut, 6 buffers and 8 0.1s

DuckSlice · 01-10-2020 11:31am

Russman wrote: »

This isn't the document I remember seeing before, but on page 3 under the heading "Competition Play" one of the lines states that your handicap is calculated so that you are only likely to play within your buffer zone in one third of your rounds.

http://www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Players-quick-guide.pdf

I think the GUI over the years have never got the message out that your handicap is not meant to be your average, and the idea that it is has gained almost complete acceptance with golfers.

Anyway its all changing in 4 weeks !!

When I look at the competitions this year I have actually only played 6 I thought I had played a lot more. Must have got mixed up as I have played a lot of golf this summer, just didn't realise so much of it was casual.
2 x 0.1's
2 x cuts (1.0 total)
2 x buffers

small sample size but im in the buffer in a third of them. :eek:

mighty magpie · 01-10-2020 11:49am

23 rounds

4 Cuts
4 Buffers
15 0.1s

down 1.0 in last 10 days so back to where i started the year at.

not expecting my handicap index to change much based on my best 8.

blackwhite · 01-10-2020 11:49am

6 comps this year.

4 0.1s, 2 buffers (1 of which was 37points - inflated CSS on the day

)

GreeBo · 01-10-2020 12:20pm

Seve OB wrote: »

can never understand how a club has such a high CSS all the time.

if it is an easy course, by default the members handicaps would be lower, thus meaning scoring would be lower and the CSS would in turn be lower.

Not really, since its still really hard to play to your handicap under CONGU.

You'll probably find that people are in their buffer way more, but not necessarily getting cut all the time.

Our CSS was always 1 higher on our shorter course, we found that it gave people artificially *low* handicaps as you could play worse and still not get a shot back, it basically extended everyones buffer by 1, which is huge for Cat 1 for example but also any good round resulted in an extra cut.

GreeBo · 01-10-2020 12:22pm

Seve OB wrote: »

there is nothing punishing about that. he deserved the cuts for shooting good scores.

ive been a fairly consistent 12 over the last few years. went as far at 12.6 recently. stuck 2 good rounds together 39 & 40 and was cut 3.1 shots. don't think i've broken 32 since that in about 10 games (not all singles/counting)

at 9.9 now and all i can think about is getting another good score to get the next cut.

Worst.
Bandit.
Ever.

New Worldwide Handicap System

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