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Is someone within their rights to move you out of a prebooked seat?

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    #92
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,195 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Little of this is to do with individual passengers and all has to do with the daft system.

    If you book on line you are allocated a seat, no choice. If you don't claim that specific seat it causes confusion as a seat is left 'open' while another seat is taken. If someone is in that seat (often because the booked seat signs are not on) and you decide not to make a fuss and sit somewhere else you could easily find yourself being evicted by the person who has that booking, when the train is full. And so on with all the other forms of confusion.

    The obvious solution is to not have automatically booked seats. If you want to book a seat you pay the €5 and all reserved seats are in one (marked) coach. I am one of the freeloaders with a travel card and I am happy to take my chance on a seat, but I would prefer to know which seats were booked when I get on the train.


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    #93
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Reserving seats should only be allowed for people who are traveling from the starting point to beyond 75% of the journey.

    Reserving seats for only a few stations or for a mid point just causes confusion.


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    #94
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Yeah keep telling yourself that.

    Paying tax is not a requirement for the allocation of seats..
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are not more important on that train than anyone else.


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    #95
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Reserving seats should only be allowed for people who are traveling from the starting point to beyond 75% of the journey.

    Reserving seats for only a few stations or for a mid point just causes confusion.

    rather than that, a reservation system that works properly would be good.


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    #96
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    listermint wrote: »
    Anytime i use the train i book a seat, Anytime someone was in the seat i asked them to move(which is always). One or two grumbles at being asked to move, but here look 'I literally couldnt give a Sh*** that you didnt bother your arse booking one ya cheap skate'

    Simple as that, get out of my seat.

    You don't have to pay extra to book a seat. If you book a ticket online you have the option to book a seat at no extra cost. I think this is unfair. If you want to book a seat you should have to pay extra for it. If you want advice on how to run this option ask Michael O'Leary.


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    #97
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,195 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Emme wrote: »
    You don't have to pay extra to book a seat. If you book a ticket online you have the option to book a seat at no extra cost. I think this is unfair. If you want to book a seat you should have to pay extra for it. If you want advice on how to run this option ask Michael O'Leary.

    Is it an option though? Its a while since I booked on line, it may have changed, but I thought it was the situation that you could choose a seat, but you would get one anyway.


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    #98
    tonorio84
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭tonorio84


    As a commuter I honestly have no issues with people booking seats. If they booked them, they are theirs, no issue with that. What gets me is when they aren’t displayed. Even in the busiest of times there are plenty of seats on the train that aren’t allocated. Just tell us where they are!

    When I now see the names arent up I just sit in the first 2 seats inside each carriage. These can’t be booked online so I won’t have to move


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    #99
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    looksee wrote: »
    Is it an option though? Its a while since I booked on line, it may have changed, but I thought it was the situation that you could choose a seat, but you would get one anyway.

    You can do it manually or do automatic selection.


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    #100
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    tonorio84 wrote: »
    Even in the busiest of times there are plenty of seats on the train that aren’t allocated.

    What train do you get? The Heuston to Waterford train looks like the credits of the Matrix there are so many green signs for seats booked.


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    #101
    tonorio84
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭tonorio84


    Emme wrote: »
    What train do you get? The Heuston to Waterford train looks like the credits of the Matrix there are so many green signs for seats booked.

    Heuston/Westport or Heuston/Galway. Sometimes Heuston/Cork. I might have to go down a carriage or 2 sometimes but there’s always seats


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    #102
    oxygen
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭oxygen


    What annoys me is when there is an empty booked seat beside someone who has their bag on it 2 minutes before the trains about to depart. When I ask them can I sit there, they tell me its booked >:[ Yea, not by your bag ffs... I usually sit in that seat, which in accordance with the Passenger charter I'm perfectly within my rights to sit in. If someone comes along to claim it I move.

    As an Irish solution to an Irish problem, CIE are hiring extra staff specifically to deal with this issue, independent of the ticket inspectors.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-reserved-seats-3840643-Feb2018/


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    #103
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Ah he is only saying that so you won't sit next to him.

    I'd do the same, nothing worse than sitting next to some stranger for 2 hours.
    You may get off at the next step or you may be with me until the bitter end.

    I'd chance my arm everytime and hope you move on.


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    #104
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,195 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    They no doubt want to sit next to you though, so putting a bag on the seat and someone having to remove it because the train is crowded is going to result in someone sitting next to you and resentment simmering!


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    #105
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    lorcand1990 wrote: »
    Also brings up the issue about someone who has prebooked a seat from a station midway through a trains journey

    Hypothetically, say I book a seat going from Athy to Heuston. That train has started in Waterford & may well have someone sitting in the seat I prebooked by the time the train reaches me. What happens in that case as clearly I can't board before Athy to claim the seat?
    In Germany you generally don't have those electronic displays and they don't always work here either but once you show the person your seat reservation they will move immediately. There would be no question of claiming the seat.


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    #106
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    I dread having to fight with someone who is sitting in a seat I've booked. I really, really do need to sit on long journeys but I don't relish having to explain why to some stubborn fecker.
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    I've yet to have a satisfactory answer as to why someone who gets to travel for free gets a guaranteed seat

    Free travel passengers don't get an automatic guaranteed seat. If I want a seat, I have to book it and pay for it.

    But you know that people with free travel have it for a reason? Ill health, old age etc.?


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    #107
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    murphaph wrote: »
    In Germany you generally don't have those electronic displays and they don't always work here either but once you show the person your seat reservation they will move immediately. There would be no question of claiming the seat.

    And the electronic thingie usually says if a passenger has it booked from an intermediate stop.

    But yeah, if the seat is printed on your ticket, that should be the end of it.


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    #108
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    And the electronic thingie usually says if a passenger has it booked from an intermediate stop.

    But yeah, if the seat is printed on your ticket, that should be the end of it.

    If people get on the train at the stop before that intermediate stop and there are not enough seats available do you expect them to stand for an hour or more so you can push past them to your seat that you booked at no extra cost?

    People used to be able to book at seat for an extra charge in the premier carriages with the brown seats. I think that fell beside the wayside because trains were too packed to have one premier carriage costing extra because not many people were willing to pay extra to book a seat. Now everyone wants to book a seat because it doesn't cost extra which is unfair. You want to book a seat-you should have to pay for the privilege. Otherwise stand with everyone else.


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    #109
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    murphaph wrote: »
    In Germany you generally don't have those electronic displays and they don't always work here either but once you show the person your seat reservation they will move immediately. There would be no question of claiming the seat.

    Exactly, the issue is not with the person taking the seat it's the fact that if there is no name over a seat at say 5.03pm and you sit down someone could have - and often has - got on at 5.24pm as train prepares to leave, puts you out of a seat you did not know was booked and you have to stand for over an hour.

    That's just not fair when you've had a 12 hour day and want to get home.


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    #110
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    I dread having to fight with someone who is sitting in a seat I've booked. I really, really do need to sit on long journeys but I don't relish having to explain why to some stubborn fecker.



    Free travel passengers don't get an automatic guaranteed seat. If I want a seat, I have to book it and pay for it.

    But you know that people with free travel have it for a reason? Ill health, old age etc.?

    Yes and I have ZERO problems with that. They should get a free reservation with their pass, I'm not talking about the elderly and sick.


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    #111
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,270 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Only real experience would be in enterprise service Dublin to Belfast I have had to move people off my assigned seat a few times, I have very little sympathy there is a sign saying carriage D is for internet bookings only and red lights above seats if they are booked


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    #112
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Yes and I have ZERO problems with that. They should get a free reservation with their pass, I'm not talking about the elderly and sick.

    Free reservation along with free travel? 😀 😂


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    #113
    joeysoap
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭joeysoap


    Emme wrote: »
    What train do you get? The Heuston to Waterford train looks like the credits of the Matrix there are so many green signs for seats booked.
    gmisk wrote: »
    Only real experience would be in enterprise service Dublin to Belfast I have had to move people off my assigned seat a few times, I have very little sympathy there is a sign saying carriage D is for internet bookings only and red lights above seats if they are booked

    Have I got this right? Green means booked on the Waterford train and red means booked on the Enterprise?

    the only problem I have experienced is the onthe Enterprise. Passengers traveling from Belfast have the aisle seats blocked with coats and bags and they very reluctantly move them when requested. From my experience staff on this service are pretty close to useless for overseeing bags on seats etc. should be sent to do a course with Ryanair or Aer Lingus ( or EasyJet :))


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    #114
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Exactly, the issue is not with the person taking the seat it's the fact that if there is no name over a seat at say 5.03pm and you sit down someone could have - and often has - got on at 5.24pm as train prepares to leave, puts you out of a seat you did not know was booked and you have to stand for over an hour.

    That's just not fair when you've had a 12 hour day and want to get home.

    Should have booked a seat then...


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    #115
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Mind boggling that anybody would claim a booked seat as their own if it's proven to be booked.

    I know it sounds all keyboard but there's not a chance I'd let somebody fob me off over a seat I booked, even if there's a big confrontation although if they were elderly or pregnant you'd probably let it slide.


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    #116
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Free reservation along with free travel? �� ��

    Ridiculous, isn't it. Irish Rail is great unless you pay for an annual ticket then you're expected to stand after a long day's work AND a standing morning commute so those who may or may not have paid for their seats get to sit in the seats they reserved free of charge.

    This is why some people sit in reserved seats when there is nowhere else to sit. If you don't want that to happen put all the reserved seats in one or two cars, enough people are booking them for nothing to fill at least one or two cars. Get an Irish Rail employee to stand in front of the cars with booked seats and ensure only people who booked the seats go in there. Oh wait - the seats were booked at no extra cost and Irish Rail can't afford to pay somebody to stand guard! :confused:

    If you want to reserve a seat on a plane you have to pay extra for it. I can't understand why Irish Rail can't get people to pay extra if they want to reserve seats. OK fewer people will reserve seats if they have to pay for them but again you can put the reserved seats in one car or at one end of a car (say the first car). Then people will know to avoid that car and go elsewhere to find a seat. Only allow people to reserve seats on a particular car and when that car fills up the option to reserve a seat is gone. Simple! And I won't charge Irish Rail for this advice! :D


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    #117
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Should have booked a seat then...

    He has already paid handsomely to travel on the train all year so why should he have to book a seat? People who travel on the train once or twice a year and book a seat at no extra cost think they can push regular commuters around.

    It is disgraceful the way Irish Rail treats regular commuters.


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    #118
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I leave the world's smallest violin on the seat next to me, and tell people I booked a seat for it.

    FFS, if somebody else has booked the seat, it's theirs, no matter how long your commute is, how tired you are.

    The real issue is not knowing what has been booked and what hasn't, but that's hardly the fault of the person who booked the seat.


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    #119
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭cython


    Emme wrote: »
    Ridiculous, isn't it. Irish Rail is great unless you pay for an annual ticket then you're expected to stand after a long day's work AND a standing morning commute so those may or may not have paid for their seats get to sit in the seats they reserved free of charge.
    You seem to be missing a key point here - none of the passengers in question have gotten both their ticket and their seat reservation free. Either they are on the FTP and paid to reserve their seat, or they bought their ticket online and got the reservation for free. Don't let the facts get in the way of a rant though!
    Emme wrote: »
    This is why some people sit in reserved seats when there is nowhere else to sit. If you don't want that to happen put all the reserved seats in one or two cars, enough people are booking them for nothing to fill at least one or two cars. Get an Irish Rail employee to stand in front of the cars with booked seats and ensure only people who booked the seats go in there. Oh wait - the seats were booked at no extra cost and Irish Rail can't afford to pay somebody to stand guard! :confused:
    I don't think many people have an issue with people sitting in a reserved seat, in particular one reserved from further down the line, provided that they are willing to free it up when the person who reserved it claims it.
    Emme wrote: »
    If you want to reserve a seat on a plane you have to pay extra for it.
    Very much depends on the airline, so another flawed generalisation.
    Emme wrote: »
    I can't understand why Irish Rail can't get people to pay extra if they want to reserve seats. OK fewer people will reserve seats if they have to pay for them but again you can put the reserved seats in one car or at one end of a car (say the first car). Then people will know to avoid that car and go elsewhere to find a seat. Only allow people to reserve seats on a particular car and when that car fills up the option to reserve a seat is gone. Simple! And I won't charge Irish Rail for this advice! :D
    Just as well, partisan advice like the above is generally not worth paying for.
    Emme wrote: »
    He has already paid handsomely to travel on the train all year so why should he have to book a seat? People who travel on the train once or twice a year and book a seat at no extra cost think they can push regular commuters around.

    It is disgraceful the way Irish Rail treats regular commuters.

    You realise those people travelling "once or twice a year" do not get the benefit of season ticket pricing and the subsequent discount of the taxsaver scheme (if available to the person on the monthly/annual ticket), so if you want to bring it down to simple cost, there's every chance that unless they were shrewd about when they booked it, or are travelling on the FTP as above, they are highly likely to have paid more for that particular journey than the commuter beside them?


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    #120
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Should have booked a seat then...

    Yeah I'll just add another fiver a day to the 4 grand I already pay for the privelege shall I ?


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    #121
    Night Falls
    Subscribers Posts: 171 ✭✭Night Falls


    If you want a seat, then yes you probably should.


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