Israel attacks Syria

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

Can you explain how it was determined to be Iranian?

Who else would have a poor copy of a US drone in the region ,
Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

If it took off from a Russian base we know it would be russian,
This drone or model of a drone took off from an Iranian operated based inside Syria ,

So who else could own it .......


Answers on a post card

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

I have repeatedly stated Iran has No Stealth aircraft or stealth drones ,
Case in point Israel tracked the drone from take off before it entered Israel where is was shot down by a helicopter ,
Israel has very high quality and very active radars and other systems that can track from small to large aircraft and drones ,
They knew it wasn't a US or Syrian drone it's certainly not a Russian design ,

Next

How do you know exactly what military capabilities Iran possesses?

If they are so backward then why do they pose such a "threat"? In this post you've just maintained that they have an aeriial capability that would make Albania look like a superpower. So why the threat then if they are so ill-equipped and impotent?

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Who else would have a poor copy of a US drone in the region ,
Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

If it took off from a Russian base we know it would be russian,
This drone or model of a drone took off from an Iranian operated based inside Syria ,

So who else could own it .......


Answers on a post card

You haven't answered any question with any manner of rationale but if you insist on the little "Next" and "answers on a postcard" comments then I'd say it's hardly worth discussing much with you.

Thanks for your insight.

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

You haven't answered any question with any manner of rationale but if you insist on the little "Next" and "answers on a postcard" comments then I'd say it's hardly worth discussing much with you.

Thanks for your insight.

Ahhhhhh I've answered all your questions perfect and simple to understand ,

Iran has no stealth aircraft or drones case and point proven in Israel .

So .

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

Israel and United States officials are now claiming this was a Stealth Drone. Who are you blaming Iran for this leak? Iran claiming their drone was not shot down? The drone penetrated 4 to 5 miles into Isreal, meaning they likely responded late. Iran at that time could have videoed what they needed inside the border of Israel. You forgetting also the Iranians captured a stealth drone in 2011, how the Iranians find the stealth drone if the Iranian capabilities are awful?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Israel and United States officials are now claiming this was a Drone.

Yeah a drone not stealth though ,

Nobody is claiming otherwise

Chrongen

So how does a drone be identified from takeoff?

Gatling was asked this question, a question he failed to answer with any sense other than his thoughts on military capabilities.

How can the identity of a drone be determined from takeoff?

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

So how does a drone be identified from takeoff?

Gatling was asked this question, a question he failed to answer with any sense other than his thoughts on military capabilities.

How can the identity of a drone be determined from takeoff?

It's really simple stuff ,

Or do I need to break out the Crayola's for a drawing

Here's a summary of how radar works:

Magnetron generates high-frequency radio waves.
Duplexer switches magnetron through to antenna.
Antenna acts as transmitter, sending narrow beam of radio waves through the air.
Radio waves hit enemy airplane and reflect back.
Antenna picks up reflected waves during a break between transmissions. Note that the same antenna acts as both transmitter and receiver, alternately sending out radio waves and receiving them.
Duplexer switches antenna through to receiver unit.
Computer in receiver unit processes reflected waves and draws them on a TV screen.
Enemy plane shows up on TV radar display with any other nearby targets

Victor

Gatling wrote: »

Who else would have a poor copy of a US drone in the region ,
Who else would produce a drone and claim it to be Stealth ,
And fail .

If it took off from a Russian base we know it would be russian,
This drone or model of a drone took off from an Iranian operated based inside Syria ,

So who else could own it .......

Syria, Hezbollah ...

Gatling

Victor wrote: »

Syria, Hezbollah ...

Syrians would go with off the shelf Russian drones ,
Hezbollah drones come from Iran ,the key to who was operating this particular drone lays in the location it took off from ,
Tiyas aka T4 near Palmyra which is operated and controlled by Iranian quds (revolutionary guards ) ,
Hezbollah has lost multiple drones in or close to Israel over the last few years , most small type drones for surveillance ,the last notable one was shot down by a patriot missile ,

From the recovered parts of the drone it doesn't look like the American sentenal drone that ended up in Iran , looks more like the wings off a predator type drones with wings Vs single wedge blended fuselage design (could be wrong) .

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

It's really simple stuff ,

Or do I need to break out the Crayola's for a drawing

Here's a summary of how radar works:

Magnetron generates high-frequency radio waves.
Duplexer switches magnetron through to antenna.
Antenna acts as transmitter, sending narrow beam of radio waves through the air.
Radio waves hit enemy airplane and reflect back.
Antenna picks up reflected waves during a break between transmissions. Note that the same antenna acts as both transmitter and receiver, alternately sending out radio waves and receiving them.
Duplexer switches antenna through to receiver unit.
Computer in receiver unit processes reflected waves and draws them on a TV screen.
Enemy plane shows up on TV radar display with any other nearby targets

I know basically how radar works. I'm an engineer. All you seem to do is blab like you are an expert in weapons and radar and comms and all manner of stuff when all you do is cut and paste sh1t and try to pawn it off as your own knowledge.

Was this your source:

http://www.aabithub.com/radar-woring/

Your cut and paste job explains how an image is viewed via radar. It doesn't explain how an image can be identified as Iranian or any other nationality for that matter.

I asked this question and you petulantly dismissed it as "simples" or some other kiddy comment. You avoid questions and then claim you answered them.

If that's your game then go play by yourself.

muppetshow1451

Chrongen wrote: »

I know basically how radar works. I'm an engineer. All you seem to do is blab like you are an expert in weapons and radar and comms and all manner of stuff when all you do is cut and paste sh1t and try to pawn it off as your own knowledge.

Was this your source:

http://www.aabithub.com/radar-woring/

Your cut and paste job explains how an image is viewed via radar. It doesn't explain how an image can be identified as Iranian or any other nationality for that matter.

I asked this question and you petulantly dismissed it as "simples" or some other kiddy comment. You avoid questions and then claim you answered them.

If that's your game then go play by yourself.

It depends on radar software,friend or foe systems,radar fire control systems.
And radar cross section.

Barry Badrinath

Chrongen wrote: »

What I'm curious about is how the Israelis identified the alleged drone which allegedly violated Israeli airspace as "Iranian"

Chrongen wrote: »

If Iran doesn't have drones as you have just stated then how come Israel are supposed to have shot one down on Saturday?

Chrongen wrote: »

How exactly can a drone be identified as Iranian? I'm curious to know.

How was it tracked? What mechanism from Israel tracks an aircraft from takeoff in another country? Satellites? Radar? How deep into Syria does Israeli radar penetrate?

How do they determine whether this drone was Iranian?

Chrongen wrote: »

Can you explain how it was determined to be Iranian?
How exactly can you determine if a vehicle is Iranian purely from radar? You are stating that radar determined whose drone it was, are you not?

How many aerial vehicles takeoff and land all over Syria every day? Are they ALL tracked from takeoff by Israeli radar? Are they all identified immediately by the manufacturer? You seem to know a lot about the capabilities of radar and how it can determine exact specifications of any and every aircraft so I'm just asking how it can be determined to be Iranian or any other "nationality" from takeoff

Chrongen wrote: »

How do you know exactly what military capabilities Iran possesses?

Chrongen wrote: »

So how does a drone be identified from takeoff? How can the identity of a drone be determined from takeoff?

Jaysis you are a very demanding individual. I was going to give you a reasoned explaination but I have a feeling you only want hear from the Israeli radar operator that was at the screen that day.

Chrongen

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Jaysis you are a very demanding individual. I was going to give you a reasoned explaination but I have a feeling you only want hear from the Israeli radar operator that was at the screen that day.

Well from what I understand and what I have read you can only determine the manufacturer of an aircraft if it has a transponder. Which begs the question why would a stealth drone have a transpnder to identify itself?

ohnonotgmail

Gatling wrote: »

Syrians would go with off the shelf Russian drones ,
Hezbollah drones come from Iran ,the key to who was operating this particular drone lays in the location it took off from ,
Tiyas aka T4 near Palmyra which is operated and controlled by Iranian quds (revolutionary guards ) ,
Hezbollah has lost multiple drones in or close to Israel over the last few years , most small type drones for surveillance ,the last notable one was shot down by a patriot missile ,

From the recovered parts of the drone it doesn't look like the American sentenal drone that ended up in Iran , looks more like the wings off a predator type drones with wings Vs single wedge blended fuselage design (could be wrong) .

a $2M missile to take out a small drone? what a ridiculous waste of money.

ohnonotgmail

Chrongen wrote: »

Well from what I understand and what I have read you can only determine the manufacturer of an aircraft if it has a transponder. Which begs the question why would a stealth drone have a transpnder to identify itself?

This has been explained to you already. If you know where it took off from you can extrapolate who owns it. And there is nothing to suggest it was a "stealth" drone unless you are using a very loose definition of the word stealth.

Gatling

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a $2M missile to take out a small drone? what a ridiculous waste of money.

It depends on the missile used ,I know they previously used a patriot missile , but it depends on what the Apache was carrying at the time it could have been any number of homegrown missiles ,
An American Apache would have been fitted with an expensive hellfire .

ohnonotgmail

Gatling wrote: »

It depends on the missile used ,I know they previously used a patriot missile , but it depends on what the Apache was carrying at the time it could have been any number of homegrown missiles ,
An American Apache would have been fitted with an expensive hellfire .

so only $100,000 a pop then. fill the skies with cheap drones and bankrupt your enemy.

Gatling

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so only $100,000 a pop then. fill the skies with cheap drones and bankrupt your enemy.

It would actually work to a degree ,
Hence why American and Chinese military planners are working on swarms of drones to attack targets to overwhelm defenses.

My personal choice would have been the Apache's 25mm chain gun it would have more beenn than sufficient to shoot it down

muppetshow1451

Gatling wrote: »

It would actually work to a degree ,
Hence why American and Chinese military planners are working on swarms of drones to attack targets to overwhelm defenses

Americans also have lasers for drone attacks and Russia is working on a microwave gun for drones,and i am not sure if its operational yet,but drone attacks in Syria have showed very little success against the russians.

Gatling

muppetshow1451 wrote: »

but drone attacks in Syria have showed very little success against the russians.

They actually faced the first swarm attack fairly recently , they didn't see it coming and only a lack of real firepower on the drones prevented a real embarrassment for russian forces in Syria.
Other attacks used off the shelf DJI type drones using improvised explosives mainly grenade's ,

Now take a drone capable of carrying a high explosive weapon that would be a real danger to ground forces

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This has been explained to you already. If you know where it took off from you can extrapolate who owns it. And there is nothing to suggest it was a "stealth" drone unless you are using a very loose definition of the word stealth.

Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, a spokesman for Israel’s military, and Yuval Steinitz, a minister in Israel’s security cabinet, said the craft was a copy of a U.S. RQ-170 Sentinel spy drone, which Iran claims to have reverse-engineered.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-confirms-downed-jet-was-hit-by-syrian-antiaircraft-fire/2018/02/11/bd42a0b2-0f13-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.f80c6a5b5130

US and Isreal and Aviation officials confirmed this drone was highly advanced and looked it was a back-engineered drone of RQ-170. RQ-170 is special for it stealth.

I think you know what the word copy means right?

Cheerful Spring

MOSCOW — Four Russian nationals, and perhaps dozens more, were killed in fighting between pro-government forces in eastern Syria and members of the United States-led coalition fighting the Islamic State, according to Russian and Syrian officials.

A Syrian military officer said that about 100 Syrian soldiers had been killed in the fighting on Feb. 7 and 8, but news about Russian casualties has dribbled out only slowly, through Russian news organizations and social media.

Much about the attack and the associated casualties has been obscured in the fog of war. For reasons that remain unclear, Syrian government troops and some Russian nationals appear to have attacked a coalition position, near Al Tabiyeh, Syria.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/world/europe/russia-syria-dead.html

If this is real US forces just killed dozens of Russian soldiers or mercenaries in Syria. I have heard online the number could be over 100 to 200.

Was there a cover-up till now to avoid escalation? This could explain why the Iranian drone was given the go-ahead to fly over Isreal.

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I think you know what the word copy means right?

The important part of the article

Iranian leaders often exaggerate the country’s military prowess.

Cheerful Spring

Gatling wrote: »

The important part of the article

Iranian leaders often exaggerate the country’s military prowess.

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

Chrongen

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This has been explained to you already. If you know where it took off from you can extrapolate who owns it. And there is nothing to suggest it was a "stealth" drone unless you are using a very loose definition of the word stealth.

Really? Well unless it took off from Iran then how on Earth does one determine if it was Iranian? Explain that to me. Maybe you have some really obvious insight that I am just continuing to miss.

My next question is....if it took off from Syria and it's manufacturer was so easily defineable then it's safe to assume that am aircraft taking of from anywhere in the world can be identified straightaway by its manufacturer/"nationality", no?

How do you determine who owns it simply by its point of takeoff?

Someone originally that a drone's owner can be determined by a radar signature and now your story is drifting from that stating that it's owner can be determined by the takeoff source.

Which is it?

Gatling

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

A copy that wasn't stealth which means ,they copied a design that's been around 70+ years and that's all ,

Stealth isn't just a wing shape ,

Might be time just to move on.

In China you can buy a copy of top of the range phone to a rolls Royce ,

But neither are a top of the range phone or rolls Royce .

Barry Badrinath

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why do you continue to deny this? Isreal said the drone was a copy of the Stealth drone that was captured in 2011. You need to stop talking about Iran. They're denying the lost a drone, never mind losing a drone with stealth.

Israels regional agenda is to deny Iran any footprint in Syria, especially in the southern region (Quneitra, Daraa, Damascus, As Suweyda).

Israel have been pushing for a 50km buffer zone extending east from the Golan Heights, to keep Iranian influence at a distance.

The fall of ISIS in Abu Kamal opened up a direct path from Iran to Syria, threatening to extend Iran's regional influence.

Anything that approaches Israel will be blamed on Iran, anyt Syrian regime victories near the Israeli border will be supported and orchastrated by Iran.

Israel will use any reason to blame Iran for everything, this legitimises Israels concerns. The stating ("confirming") that Iran has developed steath technology from a captured drone and is "using" it against Israel gives them a huge "political chit" to get the buffer zone created in their favour.

Your point about "stop talking about Iran"...sure thats the core subject.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

They actually faced the first swarm attack fairly recently , they didn't see it coming and only a lack of real firepower on the drones prevented a real embarrassment for russian forces in Syria.
Other attacks used off the shelf DJI type drones using improvised explosives mainly grenade's ,

Now take a drone capable of carrying a high explosive weapon that would be a real danger to ground forces

Drones carrying "grenades"?

What would be the purpose of this when a mobile mortars or artillery would do the same thing? Who would tie a grenade to an off the shelf drone that has a range of maybe 5 kilometres and a flight/battery life of 25 minutes?

Why would anyone do that?

Improvised explosives on a drone? Why? That makes ZERO sense.

Gatling

Chrongen wrote: »

Drones carrying "grenades"?

What would be the purpose of this when a mobile mortars or artillery would do the same thing? Who would tie a grenade to an off the shelf drone that has a range of maybe 5 kilometres and a flight/battery life of 25 minutes?

Why would anyone do that?

Improvised explosives on a drone? Why? That makes ZERO sense.

Simple ,cheap , affordable ,no development costs and no great loss when they get shot down or lost ,
Needs very little training and very little risk to the operator's