Trouble on Tory Island...

donegaLroad

wexandproud wrote: »

you often see advertisement for other islands down the west coast but i have never seen tory advertised as a tourist destination and from the photo's further up the thread id say its beautiful . are they actually geared for or indeed do they want large scale tourism . Maybe they are happy enough the way they are i wonder if it was taken in as sort of the northern end of the wild atlantic way would it boost the numbers up there if they wanted it

The Wild Atlantic way has certainly made a difference, but they are not geared for large scale tourism yet. Id would say there would need to be more accommodation available on the island. You could easily fill another hotel there with visitors. Many people just go for the day.

Nomis21

My opinion is that although they are friendly and engage with visitors who do venture out to Tory, the population is not interested in expanding tourism to the island. There is no tourism facilities at all either owned or operated by local people.

There is a small community of artists from different parts who have at different times spent time on the island, and their work can be seen exhibited on the walls of the hotel, but the islanders do not want permanent residents coming to live on the island from outside. Even holiday homes are not welcome. One was destroyed by islanders and another had its sea view totally blocked by the building of the noisy generator which supplies the islands electricity.

That is what I like about Tory. The island and the islanders only want to preserve the life and culture that they have now, not to transform the island into a tourist destination. It has the feeling of an Ireland of the past with almost no traffic or pollution. This needs to be preserved.

The islanders concerns need to be addressed about their lifeline to the outside World. They are concerned that decisions about their welfare are being decided without their representation and that's why they will be at Leinster House on Wednesday. I will be joining them there.

Nomis21

donegaLroad wrote: »

The Wild Atlantic way has certainly made a difference, but they are not geared for large scale tourism yet. Id would say there would need to be more accommodation available on the island. You could easily fill another hotel there with visitors. Many people just go for the day.

Perhaps an extra hotel could be filled in July and August but while I was there in April and May during the week, I had the whole hotel completely to myself and a double ensuite room with Irish breakfast for 20 Euro a night. The hotel is actually closed for 7 months of the year.

Whoarewe

Do the people living in Dublin and all the other major cities in Ireland pay for the buses and the luas in Dublin?
I know you have to pay the fare. But do the people living in major cities pay for the servicing and maintenance? The fuel costs? The insurance costs etc?

donegaLroad

Nomis21 wrote: »

Perhaps an extra hotel could be filled in July and August but while I was there in April and May during the week, I had the whole hotel completely to myself and a double ensuite room with Irish breakfast for 20 Euro a night. The hotel is actually closed for 7 months of the year.

yep, on season they would fill an extra hotel. I was there last April and stayed in the hostel because the hotel wasn't opening until the following week.

The hostel is €25 per night. You get your own en suite room, it is a house with 5 bedrooms and a common living room / kitchen.

The island had 70k visitors 2 years ago. They are expecting that number to increase this year because of the Wild Atlantic Way.

Cookie_Monster

Whoarewe wrote: »

Do the people living in Dublin and all the other major cities in Ireland pay for the buses and the luas in Dublin?
I know you have to pay the fare. But do the people living in major cities pay for the servicing and maintenance? The fuel costs? The insurance costs etc?

yep either through direct fares or taxation spend, and subsidise less densely populated areas as well, through both general taxation and the household charge re-distribution.

Nomis21

donegaLroad wrote: »

yep, on season they would fill an extra hotel. I was there last April and stayed in the hostel because the hotel wasn't opening until the following week.

The hostel is €25 per night. You get your own en suite room, it is a house with 5 bedrooms and a common living room / kitchen.

The island had 70k visitors 2 years ago. They are expecting that number to increase this year because of the Wild Atlantic Way.

Not sure DonegalLroad who is compiling those figures but even in the height of the season the ferry was barely carrying 500 passengers per week and many of those passengers were islanders. The figure is about 20k and even that would be stretching it a bit.

The wild Atlantic way has been around for a good few years now but a good boost to the tourist numbers would be helped if there was a public transport connection to the ferry port from Letterkenny, as at the moment one needs a car or take a taxi from Gortahork which is not always available.

PRidley

Nomis21 wrote: »

Even holiday homes are not welcome. One was destroyed by islanders and another had its sea view totally blocked by the building of the noisy generator which supplies the islands electricity.

It has the feeling of an Ireland of the past with almost no traffic or pollution.

Hardly the type of place one would want to go if the islanders are so militant!

I don’t imagine the islanders built the generator building - surely it would have been built by the ESB. I can’t imagine that they would have built it to deliberately block the view of an unwelcome holiday home owner!

From my limited knowledge of the island there are lots of cars - the vast majority of the ones I saw were untaxed, uninsured and appeared to have questionable roadworthiness.

donegaLroad

Nomis21 wrote: »

Not sure DonegalLroad who is compiling those figures but even in the height of the season the ferry was barely carrying 500 passengers per week and many of those passengers were islanders. The figure is about 20k and even that would be stretching it a bit.

The wild Atlantic way has been around for a good few years now but a good boost to the tourist numbers would be helped if there was a public transport connection to the ferry port from Letterkenny, as at the moment one needs a car or take a taxi from Gortahork which is not always available.

You are right, in fact I was going to delete that post because I had realised the ferries couldnt hold that capacity. I heard that figure from an islander two years ago when he told me ho busy he was.

whisky_galore

PRidley wrote: »

From my limited knowledge of the island there are lots of cars - the vast majority of the ones I saw were untaxed, uninsured and appeared to have questionable roadworthiness.

They are exempt from the NCT.

The exemption includes cars "permanently based on islands not connected to the mainland by road or roll-on-roll-off ferry".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/many-island-motorists-to-be-exempt-from-car-test-1.264513

PRidley

Nomis21 wrote: »

Not sure DonegalLroad who is compiling those figures but even in the height of the season the ferry was barely carrying 500 passengers per week and many of those passengers were islanders. The figure is about 20k and even that would be stretching it a bit.

The wild Atlantic way has been around for a good few years now but a good boost to the tourist numbers would be helped if there was a public transport connection to the ferry port from Letterkenny, as at the moment one needs a car or take a taxi from Gortahork which is not always available.

According to information published in the ferry tender by the Culture Department the number of non-islanders going to the island is much less than that. It is only slightly more than 6,000. That number includes people going to the island on business so the number of tourists might only be 5000.

I don’t know if anyone took the time to look at the current ferry website. It is complicated and confusing and does little to promote tourism to the island.

PRidley

whisky_galore wrote: »

They are exempt from the NCT.

The exemption includes cars "permanently based on islands not connected to the mainland by road or roll-on-roll-off ferry".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/many-island-motorists-to-be-exempt-from-car-test-1.264513

Thanks. I didn’t know that.

Are they also exempt from tax and insurance?

ohnonotgmail

PRidley wrote: »

Thanks. I didn’t know that.

Are they also exempt from tax and insurance?

No. Island vehicles pay a reduced motor tax rate of €102 a year.

PRidley

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

No. Island vehicles pay a reduced motor tax rate of €102 a year.

Did you mean “Island vehicles should pay a reduced motor tax ..”??!!!

I was shocked by the lack of insurance discs on vehicles I saw on Tory. I imagine it would be tough on a visiting pedestrian injured by such a vehicle to get compensation. Wonder if the guards ever go there.?

ohnonotgmail

PRidley wrote: »

Did you mean “Island vehicles should pay a reduced motor tax ..”??!!!

I was shocked by the lack of insurance discs on vehicles I saw on Tory. I imagine it would be tough on a visiting pedestrian injured by such a vehicle to get compensation. Wonder if the guards ever go there.?

I would have thought that was implied.

whisky_galore

PRidley wrote: »

I was shocked by the lack of insurance discs on vehicles I saw on Tory. I imagine it would be tough on a visiting pedestrian injured by such a vehicle to get compensation. Wonder if the guards ever go there.?

Like most things here, probably nod-and-wink, 'don't ask-don't tell'...

The Bere Islanders used fcuk old cars into the sea when they were done with them.

Nomis21

The guards go to the island when asked but also have regular surgeries to sign documentation.

PRidley

Nomis21 wrote: »

The guards go to the island when asked but also have regular surgeries to sign documentation.

They must turn a blind eye to tax and more importantly insurance if that is the case. Wouldn’t it be great if we could get them to do the same on the mainland.

nihicib2

From reading the Islanders posts on other forums, their concern about the new ferry is that the draught of the queen of arran is bigger... which means that in low tides that she won’t even get into Magheroarty pier which is where the service is based, along with Bunbeg harbour.

Low tides will occur for 4 days every fortnight which alone will mean that in every month there will be at least 8 days when this boat won’t make it into Magheroarty pier which means 8 days of no ferry service for Tory Island and that’s not even mentioning weather restrictions, this is according to one of the Islanders.

In the early days of the Tormór's service people had to get a small boat out to the ferry as she wasn't able to dock at the pier on certain days, the pier has been dredged many times and the concerns of the Islanders is that the new ferry will not be able to serve them in the same manner as the Tormór has.

Also, the Tory channel, especially in winter can make for a very rough crossing, I've been through it many times and even in August, on the Tormór, its been pretty rough, the islanders are concerned that the height of the new ferry will make it more unstable on the crossing.

It is not about wanting a purpose built ferry, although that would be welcomed of course, the Tormór was purpose built in the 1990's, its about safety and having a reliable service to get to Tory and back.

These are the concerns I am hearing from the islanders, I live nearby in Gweedore and Tory is a beautiful, remote Island, it is an island with a rich culture and heritage, the people are only looking for something that is safe and reliable to get them there and back, this is not too much to ask!

Its all to easy for some people to call for the islanders to move to the Tír mór as they call it, or the mainland, ultimately this is part of a wider debate about the slow death of rural life, I see it here where I live, banks, post offices etc. closing. The government want us all to live in big towns but some of us love where we live and will fight to continue to live here and in places like Tory. It is their right to live there and to expect a safe and reliable passage to the island and back. Would you want anything less for your own family?

Ubbquittious

PRidley wrote: »

Did you mean “Island vehicles should pay a reduced motor tax ..”??!!!

I was shocked by the lack of insurance discs on vehicles I saw on Tory. I imagine it would be tough on a visiting pedestrian injured by such a vehicle to get compensation. Wonder if the guards ever go there.?

It would be tough for a visiting pedestrian to get injured since there is only one tiny road full of potholes to drive down really slowly.

PRidley

nihicib2 wrote: »

From reading the Islanders posts on other forums, their concern about the new ferry is that the draught of the queen of arran is bigger... which means that in low tides that she won’t even get into Magheroarty pier which is where the service is based, along with Bunbeg harbour.

Low tides will occur for 4 days every fortnight which alone will mean that in every month there will be at least 8 days when this boat won’t make it into Magheroarty pier which means 8 days of no ferry service for Tory Island and that’s not even mentioning weather restrictions, this is according to one of the Islanders.

In the early days of the Tormór's service people had to get a small boat out to the ferry as she wasn't able to dock at the pier on certain days, the pier has been dredged many times and the concerns of the Islanders is that the new ferry will not be able to serve them in the same manner as the Tormór has.

Also, the Tory channel, especially in winter can make for a very rough crossing, I've been through it many times and even in August, on the Tormór, its been pretty rough, the islanders are concerned that the height of the new ferry will make it more unstable on the crossing.

It is not about wanting a purpose built ferry, although that would be welcomed of course, the Tormór was purpose built in the 1990's, its about safety and having a reliable service to get to Tory and back.

These are the concerns I am hearing from the islanders, I live nearby in Gweedore and Tory is a beautiful, remote Island, it is an island with a rich culture and heritage, the people are only looking for something that is safe and reliable to get them there and back, this is not too much to ask!

Its all to easy for some people to call for the islanders to move to the Tír mór as they call it, or the mainland, ultimately this is part of a wider debate about the slow death of rural life, I see it here where I live, banks, post offices etc. closing. The government want us all to live in big towns but some of us love where we live and will fight to continue to live here and in places like Tory. It is their right to live there and to expect a safe and reliable passage to the island and back. Would you want anything less for your own family?

What is the difference in the drought between the boats?

Is it right to say that the boat won’t make it to magherarty pier 8 days per month because of tides? Won’t the water level rise after low tide. Why can the sailing time not be adjusted to suit th time when tides will be higher? It should only make a half hour difference time wise.

What is the design features of the current ferry that makes her purpose built for this route?

Do you really think this whole thing is being done to get the islanders to move to the main land? On the basis of the amount of money being spent there annually - and on Ireland’s islands generally - I don’t think that argument holds any water.

PRidley

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It would be tough for a visiting pedestrian to get injured since there is only one tiny road full of potholes to drive down really slowly.

When were you there last?
Most of the roads have a tarmac surface which was done in the past few years. It is better than many on the mainland. From my limited experience people drive very fast for the road conditions and the apparent state of their vehicles.

nihicib2

PRidley wrote: »

What is the difference in the drought between the boats?

Is it right to say that the boat won’t make it to magherarty pier 8 days per month because of tides? Won’t the water level rise after low tide. Why can the sailing time not be adjusted to suit th time when tides will be higher? It should only make a half hour difference time wise.

What is the design features of the current ferry that makes her purpose built for this route?

Do you really think this whole thing is being done to get the islanders to move to the main land? On the basis of the amount of money being spent there annually - and on Ireland’s islands generally - I don’t think that argument holds any water.

I am only putting forward the concerns that the islanders have made, I am not an islander and therefore you would need to put your questions to them, I have no idea of the technicalities of the design features of the boats, these are the points made by those living on Tory and Im assuming they have made their own research into the new ferry.

I am not making any argument that 'this whole thing is being done to get the islanders to move to the main land', people on this thread have asked why Tory wasn't evacuated like the Blaskets, that it would save the taxpayers money if the people left the island, thats what I was referring to, not that this is some great conspiracy to get them to leave, but it is part of a wider debate about rural Ireland.

I hope the islanders get a boat that suits their needs.

Sleepy

The sense of entitlement of people never fails to amaze me. Whether they're lifelong welfare bums expecting to be housed in leafy suburbs of Dublin or small communities of rural dwellers who expect the taxpayer to fund their lifestyle.

The government shouldn't be subsidising this ferry service at alll. If it can't be sustained by the islanders and the tourists they can attract, they should either relocate or do without.

I'm not against progressive taxation or investing taxpayers money into socially deprived areas with the hope of turning them around over the long term but this insistence that we should keep funding parasites who have no intention to ever pay their way in life is infuriating.

Meanaspie

PRidley wrote: »

Is it right to say that the boat won’t make it to magherarty pier 8 days per month because of tides? Won’t the water level rise after low tide. Why can the sailing time not be adjusted to suit th time when tides will be higher? It should only make a half hour difference time wise.

Tidal ranges (the difference between low and high tide) change everyday. On neap tides (1/4 or 3/4 moon) the tidal range will be very low and even at high tide there may not be enough water to get to port. The sea level is actually quite shallow from the mainland until you get passed Inisbofin. I've struggled to take a diving rib in it in the past.

Widdensushi

Meanaspie wrote: »

Tidal ranges (the difference between low and high tide) change everyday. On neap tides (1/4 or 3/4 moon) the tidal range will be very low and even at high tide there may not be enough water to get to port. The sea level is actually quite shallow from the mainland until you get passed Inisbofin. I've struggled to take a diving rib in it in the past.

Why go to the media etc and say the boat was too old if the issue is with how much water it is drawing?

Meanaspie

Widdensushi wrote: »

Why go to the media etc and say the boat was too old if the issue is with how much water it is drawing?

I have no idea, only giving my input on the part that I have knowledge of

Whoarewe

PRidley wrote: »

Did you mean “Island vehicles should pay a reduced motor tax ..”??!!!

I was shocked by the lack of insurance discs on vehicles I saw on Tory. I imagine it would be tough on a visiting pedestrian injured by such a vehicle to get compensation. Wonder if the guards ever go there.?

People on Tory have vehicles taxed, insured and nct’d.. they are on the mainland, because they don’t have a roll on roll off daily service. How on earth would you expect those people to be able to insure tax and nct 2 cars? People in this country can’t even pay for one car never mind 2. This thread is going off the point completely

ohnonotgmail

Whoarewe wrote: »

People on Tory have vehicles taxed, insured and nct’d.. they are on the mainland, because they don’t have a roll on roll off daily service. How on earth would you expect those people to be able to insure tax and nct 2 cars? People in this country can’t even pay for one car never mind 2. This thread is going off the point completely

any island vehicles are also required to be taxed (albeit at a reduced rate) and insured.

Whoarewe

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

any island vehicles are also required to be taxed (albeit at a reduced rate) and insured.

When they get a proper roll on roll off service and fix all the roads, not just do half here and half there, need proper drainage too. then they definitely should pay everything on their vehicles. Tax, insurance and nct. I don’t disagree with that.