Trouble on Tory Island...

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 4:04pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Both boats are twin enginned, this is a great safety feature in that each is independent and also allows much better maneuverability when docking. They would have regular inspections likely involving untrasound inspections of the hull strength for corrosion. Boats after exposure to seawater can look like they are way past their sell by date at times but all they need it a lick of paint and perhaps a sandblasting and they are back looking like new.

Here's both boats out of the water for refits...
http://mooneyboats.ie/news/queen-of-aran/
http://mooneyboats.ie/news/the-tor-mor/

if they were in ''mooney boats'' they'll be in good nick going back in thats for sure , and you know yourself the plates after 'blasting ' will be carefully tested and if below 'i think ' 80 % of original thickness they will be replaced

Bob_Marley · 11-02-2018 4:13pm

wexandproud wrote: »

and what motivations or concerns do i have exactly , I haven't expressed any concerns at all . quiet the opposite actually , i would have no concern at all that whatever vessel used will be deemed fit for purpose by people far more qualified to do so , far more qualified than any of the island population , and anybody on here , including myself . what experience with marine surveyors do you have , what experience the sea do you have other than saying the boat is a 40 year old bucket
you still didn't answer the question i asked earlier about ''what better standards do you keep refering to '?

I presume the local Islanders have very genuine concerns, you presume the Islanders to be ignorant and not to have marine knowledge or qualifications, - as I said I'll trust their motivations and knowledge over someone radomer complaining and ranting about them on the internet anyday.

wexie · 11-02-2018 4:20pm

Bob_Marley wrote: »

I presume the local Islanders have very genuine concerns, you presume the Islanders to be ignorant and not to have marine knowledge or qualifications, -

So you don't actually know what these genuine concerns are then do you?
Glad we got that cleared up

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 4:22pm

Bob_Marley wrote: »

I presume the local Islanders have very genuine concerns, you presume the Islanders to be ignorant and not to have any marine knowledge or qualifications, - as I said I'll trust their motivations and knowledge over someone radomer complaining and ranting about them on the internet anyday.

id love to know what the real motivation is . For the record i have 27 years commercial fishing experience and have had numerous boats gone through surveys so i know exactly whats involved in getting a boat through a survey . Fair enough to you i am a randomer on here , what about the people on tory how well do you know all the people complaining .
What about yourself what experience do you have except maybe taking a boat trip now and again

i have just seen the highlighted part where you quoted me . how many qualified surveyors live on the island or how many surveyors are complaining about the new boat

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 4:31pm

wexie wrote: »

So you don't actually know what these genuine concerns are then do you?
Glad we got that cleared up

id say the concerns are something else other that the boat involved , the boat could be just a scapegoat

Alun · 11-02-2018 4:36pm

@wexandproud, would there be a difference in the sea conditions the two boats would be able to operate in? To a layman such as myself, the Tor Mor looks to be similar to a fishing vessel and possibly be up for more extreme conditions than the Queen of Aran which looks more like a pleasure cruiser type boat.

Harry Palmr · 11-02-2018 4:42pm

I've just been prompted to google Tory, my God how could anyone live there and what does anyone actually do there apart from be a bit arty and crafty? No way to grow anything except under glass - not a single tree on the island, no fuel, no way to move a vehicle on/off the island. A million quid for a school containing 15 pupils and seven teachers (is that the economy?).

Odyssey 2005 · 11-02-2018 4:44pm

Is there a Rasta commune on Tory );)

donegaLroad · 11-02-2018 4:57pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've just been prompted to google Tory, my God how could anyone live there and what does anyone actually do there apart from be a bit arty and crafty? No way to grow anything except under glass - not a single tree on the island, no fuel, no way to move a vehicle on/off the island. A million quid for a school containing 15 pupils and seven teachers (is that the economy?).

Socially it would be difficult from November until March.. great if you were writing a book or an album.

Its another world out there, I would live on it for a year. You would have great peace.

The kids at the school have a lot of advantages in terms of resources, and a pupil teacher ratio of 2:1

Harry Palmr · 11-02-2018 5:00pm

donegaLroad wrote: »

Socially it would be difficult from November until March.. great if you were writing a book or an album.

Its another world out there, I would live on it for a year. You would have great peace.

The kids at the school have a lot of advantages in terms of resources, and a pupil teacher ratio of 2:1

You might, I wouldn't and I do not say that as some city slicker by instinct. I'd feel utterly trapped and the sheer lack of foliage would do my head in.

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 5:01pm

Alun wrote: »

@wexandproud, would there be a difference in the sea conditions the two boats would be able to operate in? To a layman such as myself, the Tor Mor looks to be similar to a fishing vessel and possibly be up for more extreme conditions than the Queen of Aran which looks more like a pleasure cruiser type boat.

its hard to say just looking at photos , unless you know what the 'new vessel ' was built to do although the blue one does look to be able to handle a head on sea better than the smaller one but if the smaller one was slowed back a little she would be fine . having said that , It all boils down to the stability calculation of the boats . basically There is a point in all boats which all buoyancy wants upward force and all weight has a downward force , they will place weight on one side of the boat , then the other in various states of the vessel being full to different levels of fuel , water and people and the list [angle of heel] will be measured. the survey office will then do a matamathical calculation to see what conditions the vessel can operate in and how much it can carry . Stability is complicated but thats basically what will be done . The thickness of the hull will also be measured by ultrasound and any parts worn will have to be replaced . In any case a vessel will not be passed unless it is fit for purpose . There may also be restrictions placed on the boat regarding the conditions a boat can go to see in and like i said before the ultimate decision will be with the skipper even if the sea conditions are within the restrictions the skipper can make a decision not to sail if he feels it is not safe to do so .
you also have to bear in mind that a boat can usually handle a lot more weather than the passengers

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 5:04pm

donegaLroad wrote: »

Socially it would be difficult from November until March.. great if you were writing a book or an album.

Its another world out there, I would live on it for a year. You would have great peace.

The kids at the school have a lot of advantages in terms of resources, and a pupil teacher ratio of 2:1

dont think id like it for a year , after all this publicity i might go for a weekend sometime , id like to see the place ...... providing the boat is ok

PRidley · 11-02-2018 5:10pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've just been prompted to google Tory, my God how could anyone live there and what does anyone actually do there apart from be a bit arty and crafty? No way to grow anything except under glass - not a single tree on the island, no fuel, no way to move a vehicle on/off the island. A million quid for a school containing 15 pupils and seven teachers (is that the economy?).

And almost €600,000 per year in subsidies for boat and air services - according to Dept of Culture website! The existing ferry service gets around €400,000 per year. It would be difficult to adjust to losing that much subsidy every year.

wexie · 11-02-2018 5:16pm

wexandproud wrote: »

...... providing the boat is ok

wexie · 11-02-2018 5:22pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

and the sheer lack of foliage would do my head in.

.....yeah...not sure why but I think I'd find that quite unsettling

donegaLroad · 11-02-2018 5:31pm

I was on Tory a couple of times, I know Patsy Dan Rogers and he is quite a character. It is time-stand-still on the island, you keep time by the ferry coming and going. The club opens at around 7pm off season and there is wifi there, there is also wifi in the hotel. The cliffs at the back of the island are spectacular.

It is isolated, an hour on the larger boat to the mainland, and another 50 minutes to Letterkenny which is the nearest proper big town. In fairness though, I have been to places in Canada where you would not see or speak to another person all day. Bizarrely, I found living in downtown Toronto in the heart of winter pretty isolating (I was working for myself and would get up to the local for a couple on my own at night)

Bob_Marley · 11-02-2018 5:52pm

wexandproud wrote: »

i have just seen the highlighted part where you quoted me . how many qualified surveyors live on the island or how many surveyors are complaining about the new boat

You were the one that claimed the people living on Tory Island, nine miles off the coast in some of the roughest seas around Ireland are by comparison, unqualified know nothings when it comes to marine engineering and sea fairing.

It's your claim for you to prove. I don't presume they know nothing, and I certainly don't have to because you demand me to. More now than ever, I'll take their genuine concerns over your disdain for the Tory Islanders marine knowledge, experience in their own waters and your apparent regional hatred and bias.

PRidley · 11-02-2018 6:11pm

Bob_Marley wrote: »

You were the one that claimed the people living on Tory Island, nine miles off the coast in some of the roughest seas around Ireland are by comparison, unqualified know nothings when it comes to marine engineering and sea fairing.

I know this is someone else's argument but I think in fairness the poster concerned did not claim that the people on Tory are unqualified "know nothings". They are your words.

I believe your contributions would be much more valuable if you could answer the numerous questions asked of you with facts rather than opinions.

I find it surprising that the service to Tory has been operated by non-island operators for years. For a "sea fairing" island it is a wonder that they do not operate a service themselves.

Nomis21 · 11-02-2018 6:14pm

donegaLroad wrote: »

It is isolated, an hour on the larger boat to the mainland, and another 50 minutes to Letterkenny which is the nearest proper big town. In fairness though, I have been to places in Canada where you would not see or speak to another person all day. Bizarrely, I found living in downtown Toronto in the heart of winter pretty isolating (I was working for myself and would get up to the local for a couple on my own at night)

I went there four times last year traveling from near Athlone just because I had such a good time the first time I wanted to go back and spend more time there. There is no public transport to the port on the mainland but the owner of the ferry would take me in his car from Bunbeg each time for free, and if he was busy the captain of the boat would take me, even though I have an FTP and the ferry is free for me.

You are never alone on Tory. Every person you meet on the street will stop and chat with you for as long as you like, including Patsy Dan who is one of the most entertaining people I have ever met.

The islanders I met were mostly over 60 years old and nearly all of them worked and lived around the Holloway Road area of London for a good part of their lives. One guy told me he was always shouted at in London for always leaving the door to the house open

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 7:08pm

Bob_Marley wrote: »

You were the one that claimed the people living on Tory Island, nine miles off the coast in some of the roughest seas around Ireland are by comparison, unqualified know nothings when it comes to marine engineering and sea fairing.

It's your claim for you to prove. I don't presume they know nothing, and I certainly don't have to because you demand me to. More now than ever, I'll take their genuine concerns over your disdain for the Tory Islanders marine knowledge, experience in their own waters and your apparent regional hatred and bias.

never claimed any such thing never showed any disdain for the islander and i never showed any hatred for the area , why should i , the only thing i questioned was their qualifications to say if a boat is fit for purpose , a question very few people in ireland can answer .Like i said im not aware of any qualified surveyor coming from tory but i am open to correction on that .
You do however seem reluctant to state your qualifications , experience at sea or indeed as wexie asked , what really are the peoples concern you also seem to be getting more interested in having digs at me

wexie · 11-02-2018 7:11pm

Bob_Marley wrote: »

It's your claim for you to prove. I don't presume they know nothing, and I certainly don't have to because you demand me to. More now than ever, I'll take their genuine concerns over your disdain for the Tory Islanders marine knowledge, experience in their own waters and your apparent regional hatred and bias.

Wow, I bet if you tried you could probably manage to get racism, transphobia, BlackLivesMatter and animal rights in there somewhere as well.

Yet you still wouldn't have mentioned a single reason this particular ship is inferior to the old one....

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 7:17pm

wexie wrote: »

Wow, I bet if you tried you could probably manage to get racism, transphobia, BlackLivesMatter and animal rights in there somewhere as well.

Yet you still wouldn't have mentioned a single reason this particular ship is inferior to the old one....

not even going to respond to him/her any more , the only one showing disdain is him/herself, he /she wont answer any question and is just twisting things way beyond what was said . Maybe their is some sort of involvment

Odelay · 11-02-2018 7:18pm

Bob_Marley wrote: »

You were the one that claimed the people living on Tory Island, nine miles off the coast in some of the roughest seas around Ireland are by comparison, unqualified know nothings when it comes to marine engineering and sea fairing.

It's your claim for you to prove. I don't presume they know nothing, and I certainly don't have to because you demand me to. More now than ever, I'll take their genuine concerns over your disdain for the Tory Islanders marine knowledge, experience in their own waters and your apparent regional hatred and bias.

No one has said anything of the sort. Where did anyone say that? Or is this just another "opinion" of yours based without a single fact?

Odelay · 11-02-2018 7:21pm

wexandproud wrote: »

not even going to respond to him/her any more , the only one showing disdain is him/herself, he /she wont answer any question and is just twisting things way beyond what was said . Maybe their is some sort of involvment

I'd have to agree. Bob can't provide a single fact and appears to justify his position by inventing distain.

Ajsoprano · 11-02-2018 7:22pm

Does the whole island population work off tourism?

Are a lot of people on welfare off season?

This has nothing to do with the boat I know but I’m interested in the population and what they do all day.

It seems to me that the local businessman tells everyone how to feel about the boat he lost the licence to run and if anybody has an opposing view their family won’t be working in his hotel, post office, pub, art shop or anything else.

This would explain when a person is shown the certificate of safety on a boat they will still say it’s unsafe.

When shown the boat is bigger they will still say it’s smaller.

They can march on Leinster house but will be ignored. With a bit of luck they will spend some money in the Dublin economy whilst here.

Might get on rte news if it’s a slow day but nobody will pay it any mind.

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 7:25pm

Odelay wrote: »

I'd have to agree. Bob can't provide a single fact and appears to justify his position by inventing distain.

ya . i wont sleep a wink tonight worrying about all the things he implied about me:D . it's a sure sign your loosing the discussion when you start making it personal

wexie · 11-02-2018 7:31pm

wexandproud wrote: »

not even going to respond to him/her any more , the only one showing disdain is him/herself, he /she wont answer any question and is just twisting things way beyond what was said . Maybe their is some sort of involvment

I'm going to save this thread and read it if I ever feel the urge to open a twitter account

Nomis21 · 11-02-2018 7:49pm

Ajsoprano wrote: »

Does the whole island population work off tourism?

Are a lot of people on welfare off season?

This has nothing to do with the boat I know but I’m interested in the population and what they do all day.

It seems to me that the local businessman tells everyone how to feel about the boat he lost the licence to run and if anybody has an opposing view their family won’t be working in his hotel, post office, pub, art shop or anything else.

This would explain when a person is shown the certificate of safety on a boat they will still say it’s unsafe.

When shown the boat is bigger they will still say it’s smaller.

They can march on Leinster house but will be ignored. With a bit of luck they will spend some money in the Dublin economy whilst here.

Might get on rte news if it’s a slow day but nobody will pay it any mind.

Most of the people I met on tory were born on the island but due to lack of work they spent most of their lives in UK and came back to retire on Tory, so yes they are on welfare as mostly they did poor paying manual work overseas at a time when there was little work even on the mainland in Ireland.. At their time of life they rely on good connections to Letterkenny hospital. Patsy dan himself was undergoing treatment for cancer for many years.

Practically the only tourism is accomodation at the hotel and a small hostel. Owners of both establishments live on the mainland most of the year and are not from Tory. The owner of the present ferry business also lives on the mainland and is not from Tory. There is a negligible income from tourism in any case as most people only go for a day trip and don't sleep on the island. There are no restaurants or cafes on the island. The hotel often gets business from day trippers who are not able to return to the mainland because a storm has set in and the return crossing is not possible that day. Sometimes traveling musicians also play at the club which can attract some limited tourism.

The Tory ferry cannot be compared to a bus service using an old bus which may break down on occasions. The ferry is a vital connection to the mainland often the difference between life and death for those in medical need and the concerns of the islanders are very relevant. It is their homeland and they are worried for their own safety, whether rightly or wrongly, by the use of such an old vessel.

wexie · 11-02-2018 7:59pm

Nomis21 wrote: »

The Tory ferry cannot be compared to a bus service using an old bus which may break down on occasions. The ferry is a vital connection to the mainland often the difference between life and death for those in medical need and the concerns of the islanders are very relevant. It is their homeland and they are worried for their own safety, whether rightly or wrongly, by the use of such an old vessel.

I don't think anybody is disputing this, more a case of trying to figure out what the actual concerns are and how well founded they are. As already pointed out the age of the vessel isn't necessarily in and of itself cause for concern.

Do you think the comparative lack of overnight tourism is because of a lack of facilities or have people tried to attract more visitors and failed? Seems to me it would be a fabulous spot for things such as art classes, retreats, maybe even camping etc.

wexandproud · 11-02-2018 8:21pm

wexie wrote: »

I don't think anybody is disputing this, more a case of trying to figure out what the actual concerns are and how well founded they are. As already pointed out the age of the vessel isn't necessarily in and of itself cause for concern.

Do you think the comparative lack of overnight tourism is because of a lack of facilities or have people tried to attract more visitors and failed? Seems to me it would be a fabulous spot for things such as art classes, retreats, maybe even camping etc.

you often see advertisement for other islands down the west coast but i have never seen tory advertised as a tourist destination and from the photo's further up the thread id say its beautiful . are they actually geared for or indeed do they want large scale tourism . Maybe they are happy enough the way they are i wonder if it was taken in as sort of the northern end of the wild atlantic way would it boost the numbers up there if they wanted it

Trouble on Tory Island...

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