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Making Confirmation and regular attendance at Mass

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    #152
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    True but this is the Republic of Ireland, not the Catholic Republic of Ireland

    I don't know who claimed it was, if you want a school in your area do the same work.


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    #153
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    I don't know who claimed it was, if you want a school in your area do the same work.
    The same work as what? I work and pay tax and expect to have unfettered access to rudimentary educational services for my chislers. He who pays the piper calls the tune.


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    #154
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Crea wrote: »
    Hold the phone a minute.

    Why would I hold your phone ? Hold your own.
    Crea wrote: »
    At the moment teachers are paid by the state, they are trained by the state,

    Teachers are not trained by the state, they are trained by colleges and universities and pay fees.
    Crea wrote: »
    they provide the money for building and equipment - the only input that the church has is that it may have owned the land the school was built on or it was a convent/brothers school. I would doubt any church funds go into the running of schools , it certainly doesn't happen in any of the schools in my area.

    Not true, the state pays supports to schools, but a substantial amount of fundraising still has to be done every year by parents and parishioners to keep schools going, and the land was donated to the parish.
    Crea wrote: »
    Many schools were built 100% by the state but given over to be run by Catholic managent because the chirch had a strangle hold of the country at the time.

    Not true, no school is 100% built by the state, considerable fundraising also has to be done. The local Catholics who went to the bother of providing the land and fundraising, and running and managing the school are the ones that own and manage it.
    Crea wrote: »
    Many schools could be removed from the church without incurring any costs at all.
    Given the dig out the state gave in relation to abuse scandals I'd say the church owes us a few bob anyway.

    You mean confiscate schools from Catholics ? You think that is a solution instead of people who want alternatives doing the same hard work, and applying for the same state supports as Catholics have done ? Yeah right.


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    #155
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,271 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    Catholics, from both voluntary contributions and donations, and from taxation of Catholics.

    lol

    Catholic tax


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    #156
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,984 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    ......and yet last time I checked the vast majority of taxpayers are Catholic

    Nominally. If they want their taxes to go to just catholic causes they might want to move country, because thats not how it works here.


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    #157
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,984 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bob_Marley wrote: »

    You mean confiscate schools from Catholics ? You think that is a solution instead of people who want alternatives doing the same hard work, and applying for the same state supports as Catholics have done ? Yeah right.

    You aren't just in the wrong country, you're in the wrong century.


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    #158
    Crea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    What we have in Catholic primary schools isn't religious education though. Religious education is learning about the main religions of the world and being allowed to discuss and question them. What is happening in our primary schools is indoctrination into the Catholic church. There is no set RE curriculum for primary schools - it is set by the patron of the school which in 90% of schools is the Catholic church. Yet 2.5 hours a week is given over to 'RE - to put that in context science, history and geography is give 3hrs combined.


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    #159
    Crea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    Just because the fundraising is done by the community doesn't mean it is done by the church. It isn't. In my kids school the parents contributions and fundraising is just tgat - the parents, not tge church.
    In fact a few years ago the church proposed that schools pay THEM because of lack of funds a a parish level.


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    #160
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Odhinn wrote: »
    No, its a state school paid for by the state. Let parents look after their childrens religion at home.

    It’s a Catholic School. Mostly you can tell by the name of the school. Presentation Primary School, Christian Brothers Primary School etc. Catholic schools . It’s not rocket science.


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    #161
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Nominally. If they want their taxes to go to just catholic causes they might want to move country, because thats not how it works here.
    Odhinn wrote: »
    You aren't just in the wrong country, you're in the wrong century.

    So Catholics, who pay the most taxes, should not receive the same state support for their schools, that is open to everyone else , their schools should be confiscated and they should leave the country where they are in a majority ?

    If you can't address the actual points, at lease stop resorting to personal and sectarian abuse.


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    #162
    Crea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Nominally. If they want their taxes to go to just catholic causes they might want to move country, because thats not how it works here.

    Wouldn't it be great if it was though? Like in Germany a certain % of your tax goes to your stated religion . I could well imagine the church figures dropping drastically then

    More than 181,000 German Catholics left the Church in 2010 and a further 126,000 the following year, reducing the total number to 24.47 million in a total population of 82 million. The declining congregations have alarmed German bishops since the tax brings in billions for the Roman Catholic Church each year.


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    #163
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Crea wrote: »
    What we have in Catholic primary schools isn't religious education though. Religious education is learning about the main religions of the world and being allowed to discuss and question them. What is happening in our primary schools is indoctrination into the Catholic church. There is no set RE curriculum for primary schools - it is set by the patron of the school which in 90% of schools is the Catholic church. Yet 2.5 hours a week is given over to 'RE - to put that in context science, history and geography is give 3hrs combined.

    But what your claiming is Catholic children should not be allowed to be brought up Catholic. If you don't like Catholic schools, don't send your children there. Get up off your arse and set up your own schools and apply for funds just like every other denomination or non denominational has to.


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    #164
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Nominally. If they want their taxes to go to just catholic causes they might want to move country, because thats not how it works here.

    And if you want a school with an ethos you prefer, get together with all the other hundreds of families you reckon want the same as you, lobby your government to buy land and build you a school.
    Surely if there’s as many as you claim there’s is unhappy with the current situation you should be able to force through your demands? There’s strength in numbers you know?
    Or will you admit that the vast msjority if parents of all faiths and no faith are quite happy with their children’s education?


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    #165
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Unfortunately most people are too busy working to get into lengthy campaigns with deeply entrenched ideologues.


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    #166
    Crea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    Bob_Marley wrote: »
    But what your claiming is Catholic children should not be allowed to be brought up Catholic. If you don't like Catholic schools, don't send your children there. Get up off your arse and set up your own schools and apply for funds just like every other denomination or non denominational has to.

    No one is stopping them being brought up Catholic - parents can bring them up any religion they want. I can tell you though the majority of people who send their kids to our local school do not qualify as Catholics according to the criteria of the church. Sadly most people don't know what being a Catholic actually means


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    #167
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Tbh even as a Catholic I would push back Confirmation to about 18.

    Once you're Confirmed you're a full made member of the Church, a soldier of Christ. You can never leave the Church once you're Confirmed, you will always be a Catholic.


    A big step for a 12 year old to make, maybe they should be allowed to mature and make their own decision on the matter.


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    #168
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Crea wrote: »
    No one is stopping them being brought up Catholic - parents can bring them up any religion they want. I can tell you though the majority of people who send their kids to our local school do not qualify as Catholics according to the criteria of the church. Sadly most people don't know what being a Catholic actually means

    It's a fair point that some Catholics are not very Catholic, but all we can do is give them a chance, and hope someday they might improve.

    No one is objecting to anyone else having their own denominational / non-denominational schools, but Catholic schools should be allowed just like every other denomination / non denomination is.


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    #169
    Ralf and Florian
    Site Banned Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭Ralf and Florian


    Confirmation and communion have long lost any meaning. They're an excuse for travellers and drug dealers to show off their wealth and complete lack of taste.


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    #170
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Ralf and Florian wrote: »
    Confirmation and communion have long lost any meaning. They're an excuse for travellers and drug dealers to show off their wealth and complete lack of taste.

    Managed to have a sectarian racist pop at both Catholics and Travelers in the one post. Well done.


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    #171
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Tbh even as a Catholic I would push back Confirmation to about 18.

    Once you're Confirmed you're a full made member of the Church, a soldier of Christ. You can never leave the Church once you're Confirmed, you will always be a Catholic.

    A big step for a 12 year old to make, maybe they should be allowed to mature and make their own decision on the matter.

    You can leave the church anytime you like. Just stop going. No one is going to come after you or look for you or ask you to come back.
    It’s not Scientology.
    If you’ve been baptized and confirmed then you will be on a register that records that those two things happened.
    You can’t be taken off the register because that would be pretending that those two things didn’t happen, when it’s a fact that they did.
    But you certainly are free to leave and will never again hear from the church if that’s what you want to do.
    There’s no point in pretending that it’s some kind of prison.


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    #172
    Crea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    splinter65 wrote: »
    And if you want a school with an ethos you prefer, get together with all the other hundreds of families you reckon want the same as you, lobby your government to buy land and build you a school.
    Surely if there’s as many as you claim there’s is unhappy with the current situation you should be able to force through your demands? There’s strength in numbers you know?
    Or will you admit that the vast msjority if parents of all faiths and no faith are quite happy with their children’s education?

    Have already looked into that. We don't have the population in our area to justify a 2nd school - one of the criteria of strong up a new school.
    Anyway I'm pretty busy with the Repeal the 8th campaign st the moment


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    #173
    Crea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You can leave the church anytime you like. Just stop going. No one is going to come after you or look for you or ask you to come back.
    It’s not Scientology.
    If you’ve been baptized and confirmed then you will be on a register that records that those two things happened.
    You can’t be taken off the register because that would be pretending that those two things didn’t happen, when it’s a fact that they did.
    But you certainly are free to leave and will never again hear from the church if that’s what you want to do.
    There’s no point in pretending that it’s some kind of prison.

    You can officially leave the church in other countries. You used to be able to do it here but the church stopped it.


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    #174
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Crea wrote: »
    Have already looked into that. We don't have the population in our area to justify a 2nd school - one of the criteria of strong up a new school.
    Anyway I'm pretty busy with the Repeal the 8th campaign st the moment

    So no real demand at all them.

    - As for terminating the lives of defenseless unborn children before they even get to school - I suppose that's one way of keeping the demand in your area down.


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    #175
    Bob_Marley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Bob_Marley


    Crea wrote: »
    You can officially leave the church in other countries. You used to be able to do it here but the church stopped it.

    not true either, you can leave anytime as you always could, they just done away with the need for any official process.


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    #176
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,271 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Oh goodie... The 8th again..

    I'm out


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    #177
    Eire Go Brach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Eire Go Brach


    Why would you need to go to mass? Sure communions and confirmation are just for the money.


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    #178
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,984 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    splinter65 wrote: »
    It’s a Catholic School. Mostly you can tell by the name of the school. Presentation Primary School, Christian Brothers Primary School etc. Catholic schools . It’s not rocket science.

    It's been co-opted by the church. Now they're gradually going to be taken by the state.

    "christian brothers".....Yeah, having that lot in charge of children was a great idea, wasn't it?..They're virtually extinct in this country, thankfully.


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    #179
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Crea wrote: »
    Have already looked into that. We don't have the population in our area to justify a 2nd school - one of the criteria of strong up a new school.
    Anyway I'm pretty busy with the Repeal the 8th campaign st the moment

    Well it’ll be something for you to get your teeth into when the referendum is over . Good luck with it all.


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    #180
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    It's true that you can never leave the church - in Ireland.

    I did it back home because as a Catholic you have to pay a small percentage as so called "church tax". If you don't pay they'll get an order to automatically cut it from their wages. That's the reason why a lot of people can formally leave the church and become confession-less.

    Anyway, my kids aren't baptized, the older one goes to a small shticks primary where pretty much all kids do communion. When he entered school the teacher asked me to have a word for a few minutes and asked me how she should handle it in school since they do prayer every day and talk about religion for around half an hour each day. We came to a pretty good agreement, nobody bats an eyelid.
    When he thinks he misses out on a party, we'll go away with him for a weekend.
    Problem solved.


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    #181
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Odhinn wrote: »
    It's been co-opted by the church. Now they're gradually going to be taken by the state.

    "christian brothers".....Yeah, having that lot in charge of children was a great idea, wasn't it?..They're virtually extinct in this country, thankfully.

    Still called the CBS school. All over the country. Big picture of the founder Edmund Rice outside each of the two schools in our town.
    Parents actually pay quite hefty fees to have their sons educated at some of the CBS
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Brothers_College,_Cork


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