Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

zg3409

ewj1978 wrote: »

So the home charger I have insatlled is not locking so it won't initiate the charge. Its the eMH1 ABL unit that the ESB were putting in for free way back.
Anyone got any options for a new charger?
Or a solution to my issue?

Assuming its an old 3.6kW Max older unit, then your wiring and fuse on fuse board will need to be upgraded for newest type charger.

You might be able to get a replacement used charger online or get your charger repaired.
NMD in tramore installed all the old ESB ones so they would be best placed to fix it
https://evchargingstations.ie/
Maybe ring them.

You won't be entitled to the grant so it will be expensive. If you could get a charger limited to 3.6kW and get a local electrician to put it in that might be cheaper as NND tend to be most experienced and most expensive.

Can you granny charge to get you going? You only get 2kW/h so may not be enough to fill 2 cars if you have a big commute.


Edit:
One for sale here for past 6 months
https://touch.adverts.ie/other/ev-home-charger-type-2-electric-car/21357474

owenbutt

We have recently purchased a Nissan leaf and we are in the process of trying to get a home charger installed. Apparently, you can get an SEAI home grant of up to 600 euros to get one of these chargers installed. From what I have discovered, the installation of one of these chargers is not very cheap. Depending on what charger you go (in our case zappi), the cost of the charger and the installation can go to anywhere from 1200 to 1500 euro's. The chargers alone cost anywhere between 700 to 900 euros. The rest of the cost is the installation and VAT charged by the electrician who is usually a contractor installing the product on behalf of an approved EV charger supplier. My question is that do you require such a charger to be installed in the 1st place or can you use the three-pin plug cable that comes with the car to charge it from a standard 3 pin socket? I am planning to get one of those outdoor sockets installed which are IP66 rated and just keep using the three-pin plug. From my understanding, the only difference would be that an actual charger would charge the car quicker than a standard 3 pin socket. In our case, our Nissan leaf will fully charge in eight hours with the charger and up to 12 hours with a 3-pin socket.

redcup342

Depends on your use case, many people can get by with a Granny Charger.

If you have charging available at work that may be sufficient, you could always try it and see how you get on then change later on.

Why do you want a zappi over a basic charge point.
you can get them for less than the grant.

owenbutt

BrownFinger wrote: »

Why do you want a zappi over a basic charge point.
you can get them for less than the grant.

The point being that even with the cheapest charger in the market, the total cost including charger + installation is still no less than €1100. Even with an SEAI grant, it's 500 out of my pocket where as, I can get an out door socket with it's own trip switch all for under 100 bucks. I'm just looking at the economical side of it.

Gumbo

owenbutt wrote: »

We have recently purchased a Nissan leaf and we are in the process of trying to get a home charger installed. Apparently, you can get an SEAI home grant of up to 600 euros to get one of these chargers installed. From what I have discovered, the installation of one of these chargers is not very cheap. Depending on what charger you go (in our case zappi), the cost of the charger and the installation can go to anywhere from 1200 to 1500 euro's. The chargers alone cost anywhere between 700 to 900 euros. The rest of the cost is the installation and VAT charged by the electrician who is usually a contractor installing the product on behalf of an approved EV charger supplier. My question is that do you require such a charger to be installed in the 1st place or can you use the three-pin plug cable that comes with the car to charge it from a standard 3 pin socket? I am planning to get one of those outdoor sockets installed which are IP66 rated and just keep using the three-pin plug. From my understanding, the only difference would be that an actual charger would charge the car quicker than a standard 3 pin socket. In our case, our Nissan leaf will fully charge in eight hours with the charger and up to 12 hours with a 3-pin socket.

You appear a little confused.

The installers is not working on behalf of the SEAI or the Charger company.
The Installer simply has to be a Safe Electric Registered Electrician (RECI).
You can buy a charger on amazon for €250 and get your local registered spark to fit it, and if he/she charges you 450e or less than the total install is free.

You've mentioned the Zappi, that is the eqivalant of a Learner driver going straight out any buying a BMW 330i as their first car and then giving out how expensive cars are

The Zappi is at the top of the charger Tree due to its user interface,app support, inbuilt DC Surge Protection, in built load management and the ability to charge from Solar PV excess through the Eco+ setting.

So OP, you need to work out what you need.
Granny cable is fine, my parents use their Granny cable 100% of the time on their 530e, but you have to remember that you need an external socket, and the brick along the cable length is water proof to an extent, I wouldn't want it out in the rain if you get me, where as a charger and Type 1 cable can be left in the pouring rain all night.

Next is, what is the On Board Charger on the Leaf? 3.3kw or 6.6kw? as a Granny cable will only charge at 2.3kw and the charger will charge at the full 6.6 kw hence reducing the time it takes significantly. What size Leaf do you have, 24 kWh, 30 kWh or 40 kWh?

Ive installed 2 chargepoints on my properties, both times, the Grant fully covering it.

I bought second hand chargers from the EV Facebook Group or Adverts and got local sparks to fit and certify.

Only this year I bought a QUBEV charger for my parents house, cost €231 delivered, and paid a sparks €600 to fit, certify to and also provide an outdoor socket on the other side of the house. Total outlay was €231 after the grant but that included all materials and the additional outdoor socket.

Another thing to consider is that these grants wont be around forever. Getting one now will future proof you for your next EV that can take the full charge speed.

biko

ICE->BEV

owenbutt

Gumbo wrote: »

You appear a little confused.

The installers is not working on behalf of the SEAI or the Charger company.
The Installer simply has to be a Safe Electric Registered Electrician (RECI).
You can buy a charger on amazon for €250 and get your local registered spark to fit it, and if he/she charges you 450e or less than the total install is free.

You've mentioned the Zappi, that is the eqivalant of a Learner driver going straight out any buying a BMW 330i as their first car and then giving out how expensive cars are

The Zappi is at the top of the charger Tree due to its user interface,app support, inbuilt DC Surge Protection, in built load management and the ability to charge from Solar PV excess through the Eco+ setting.

So OP, you need to work out what you need.
Granny cable is fine, my parents use their Granny cable 100% of the time on their 530e, but you have to remember that you need an external socket, and the brick along the cable length is water proof to an extent, I wouldn't want it out in the rain if you get me, where as a charger and Type 1 cable can be left in the pouring rain all night.

Next is, what is the On Board Charger on the Leaf? 3.3kw or 6.6kw? as a Granny cable will only charge at 2.3kw and the charger will charge at the full 6.6 kw hence reducing the time it takes significantly. What size Leaf do you have, 24 kWh, 30 kWh or 40 kWh?

Ive installed 2 chargepoints on my properties, both times, the Grant fully covering it.

I bought second hand chargers from the EV Facebook Group or Adverts and got local sparks to fit and certify.

Only this year I bought a QUBEV charger for my parents house, cost €231 delivered, and paid a sparks €600 to fit, certify to and also provide an outdoor socket on the other side of the house. Total outlay was €231 after the grant but that included all materials and the additional outdoor socket.

Another thing to consider is that these grants wont be around forever. Getting one now will future proof you for your next EV that can take the full charge speed.

Interesting. Would you mind if I ask how the grant covered the full cost? What charger did you use? Was it new or used? If you have any links for them please? I do have a sparks who can install and certify it for me.

zg3409

3 pin plug is 2kW/h
Proper charger is 7kW/h

10 hours on a plug gives 20kW of energy about enough for 100km.

If your commute is 100km per day then you can use a 3 pin plug, more than that and you might struggle to charge back up each night.

Zappi is most expensive on the market (maybe Anderson dearer)
Typical charger is 1000 install less 600 grant so 400 out if pocket. This is a great addition to your house and might last 10+ years. You can use it even if you change car.

The grant is per address, so if you move house you can get the grant again.
The granny cable is not recommended as its slow, you might need to run a cable in the letterbox or window, and its a slightly higher fire risk particularly if socket used is old and worn. It draws relatively high power for many hours and the worn socket can cause the plug to overheat and melt, risking a fire starting inside home overnight. An outdoor proper charge point is safer.

Gumbo

owenbutt wrote: »

Interesting. Would you mind if I ask how the grant covered the full cost? What charger did you use? Was it new or used? If you have any links for them please? I do have a sparks who can install and certify it for me.

Its all in the post I typed ^^^^^^

I bought second hand chargers from the EV Facebook Group or Adverts and got local sparks to fit and certify.

QUBEV charger

Heres one here for €300, I sold one of these last year for €275. They can be set to charge at 7kw which is the max that any charger can draw in Ireland (SIngle Phase Connections). https://www.adverts.ie/other/electric-car-charger/22437029

Another, but these are older units. this one is over priced in my opinion - https://www.adverts.ie/other/ev-home-charger-type-2-electric-car/21357474

Brand Ne from amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/QUBEV-CHARGING-UNIT-TYPE-SOCKET/dp/B07WW6ZWVN/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Qubev&qid=1614336270&sr=8-1

CiniO

zg3409 wrote: »

3 pin plug is 2kW/h
Proper charger is 7kW/h

10 hours on a plug gives 20kW of energy about enough for 100km.

I

Is it the charger which is provided with a car that low?

230V * 13A = 2990W

So a charger plugged into regular home socket could be nearly 3kW.

owenbutt

zg3409 wrote: »

3 pin plug is 2kW/h
Proper charger is 7kW/h

10 hours on a plug gives 20kW of energy about enough for 100km.

If your commute is 100km per day then you can use a 3 pin plug, more than that and you might struggle to charge back up each night.

Zappi is most expensive on the market (maybe Anderson dearer)
Typical charger is 1000 install less 600 grant so 400 out if pocket. This is a great addition to your house and might last 10+ years. You can use it even if you change car.

The grant is per address, so if you move house you can get the grant again.
The granny cable is not recommended as its slow, you might need to run a cable in the letterbox or window, and its a slightly higher fire risk particularly if socket used is old and worn. It draws relatively high power for many hours and the worn socket can cause the plug to overheat and melt, risking a fire starting inside home overnight. An outdoor proper charge point is safer.

You do make a good point about the commute being less than 100km. Funnily enough, the car will barely get 30km every day. Hence, I can live with the slow charge.

You also have a good point about fire safety but the outdoor socket is brand new and rated IP66 and in a well shaded corner. It has it's own line from the meter with it's own trip switch and also an in-built surge protector. But even then, the fact that it would be plugged in for hours might not make it safe enough. Also, I note that it has an inline control box around 1 feet in length on the plug end of the cable, which I'm not sure if that would be water proof (unless anyone here knows about it)

Gumbo

CiniO wrote: »

Is it the charger which is provided with a car that low?

230V * 13A = 2990W

So a charger plugged into regular home socket could be nearly 3kW.

A 3 pin plug is limited to 13a. Nothing to do with the car, its on the Granny charger side of things.

A proper EVSE will be 7kw.
The Lef On Board Charger is either 3.3kw or 6.6kw, so this will determine what it pulls.
Newer cars are higher. My car OBC is 22kw.

owenbutt

Gumbo wrote: »

Its all in the post I typed ^^^^^^






Heres one here for €300, I sold one of these last year for €275. They can be set to charge at 7kw which is the max that any charger can draw in Ireland (SIngle Phase Connections). https://www.adverts.ie/other/electric-car-charger/22437029

Another, but these are older units. this one is over priced in my opinion - https://www.adverts.ie/other/ev-home-charger-type-2-electric-car/21357474

Brand Ne from amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/QUBEV-CHARGING-UNIT-TYPE-SOCKET/dp/B07WW6ZWVN/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Qubev&qid=1614336270&sr=8-1

Sorry. I meant to ask you that did the grant cover the cost of buying the second hand charger as well or will the grant only cover the cost if it's brand new?

Gumbo

owenbutt wrote: »

Sorry. I meant to ask you that did the grant cover the cost of buying the second hand charger as well or will the grant only cover the cost if it's brand new?

The Grant system doesn't care if new or second hand.

As I said, total cost was covered. in one of those cases I actuall made a profit as I paid €200 for the ABL charger on FB, Bought the RCBO and ran the cable myself during a renovation. Sparks came and connected at the Consumer Unit and certified for €100.

owenbutt

Gumbo wrote: »

The Grant system doesn't care if new or second hand.

As I said, total cost was covered. in one of those cases I actuall made a profit as I paid €200 for the ABL charger on FB, Bought the RCBO and ran the cable myself during a renovation. Sparks came and connected at the Consumer Unit and certified for €100.

So if I do buy a second hand charger, as long as I have a receipt from the previous owner, I can claim it against the grant? Sorry for my ignorance

CiniO

Gumbo wrote: »

A 3 pin plug is limited to 13a. Nothing to do with the car, its on the Granny charger side of things.

A proper EVSE will be 7kw.
The Lef On Board Charger is either 3.3kw or 6.6kw, so this will determine what it pulls.
Newer cars are higher. My car OBC is 22kw.

Yes, but zg3407 was saying about 2kW charger, while simple standard 13A socket can provide 2990kW - therefore my question - why 2kW instead of 2.8kW or something like that ?

liamog

Mod Note: I've consolidated a number of home charge point threads, can we try to keep them in one place please

If someone want's to do up an FAQ or link to one, I'll put in post #1

Gumbo

owenbutt wrote: »

So if I do buy a second hand charger, as long as I have a receipt from the previous owner, I can claim it against the grant? Sorry for my ignorance

You don't need a receipt. No receipts get submitted to the SEAI.

First off, talk to your mate.
Make sure he is Safe Electric Registered.
Show him what you want to do.
You need a 40a RCBO fitted into the consumer Unit.
You need 6mm sq Wiring from there to where the charger will be placed.
you then need 2 certs from him, 1. Test record sheet and 2. Form R83-V1 (Cert 2). He also submits one of these to ESB Networks.
Find out how much he will charge for this.

Then decide what way to go.

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, but zg3407 was saying about 2kW charger, while simple standard 13A socket can provide 2990kW - therefore my question - why 2kW instead of 2.8kW or something like that ?

Granny Chargers will charge at 2.3kw I believe. Maybe protection of the device.

owenbutt

Gumbo wrote: »

You don't need a receipt. No receipts get submitted to the SEAI.

First off, talk to your mate.
Make sure he is Safe Electric Registered.
Show him what you want to do.
You need a 40a RCBO fitted into the consumer Unit.
You need 6mm sq Wiring from there to where the charger will be placed.
you then need 2 certs from him, 1. Test record sheet and 2. Form R83-V1 (Cert 2). He also submits one of these to ESB Networks.
Find out how much he will charge for this.

Then decide what way to go.



Granny Chargers will charge at 2.3kw I believe. Maybe protection of the device.

Understood. Thanks very much.

Gumbo

owenbutt wrote: »

Understood. Thanks very much.

Once you have that info, come back and confirm before doing anything.
We will try our best to guide you.

owenbutt

Thanks once again. One more thing related to charging, is it free to charge at all the ESB charging stations or do you have to pay for it? If it's not free, then is it dearer than home charging?

innrain

ESB s not free. the price structure is described here https://esb.ie/ecars/.
Costwise they are around double of a night tariff. The rapid chargers between 2-3 times.
Some EasyGo AC chargers are free (mostly the Lidl ones). Some council ones might be free. Most of the free ones would have time limits from the parking perspective and also very busy.

Gumbo

owenbutt wrote: »

Thanks once again. One more thing related to charging, is it free to charge at all the ESB charging stations or do you have to pay for it? If it's not free, then is it dearer than home charging?

OK, you need to do a lot of research.
There is no Free Charging by eCars anymore

Yes you pay for it, and in many cases you pay for parking too on top.

It is substantially dearer to charge on street.

kanuseeme

https://skoda-webshop.ie.elli.eco/products/charger

11kw 3 phase for 392,51 € offer till 28-02

7 kw is the same price, but a quick search did not show 3 phase for cheaper.

Might suit some one.

Felexicon

kanuseeme wrote: »

https://skoda-webshop.ie.elli.eco/products/charger

11kw 3 phase for 392,51 € offer till 28-02

7 kw is the same price, but a quick search did not show 3 phase for cheaper.

Might suit some one.

Jesus you'd be rightly p1ssed if you had paid more than double that for the same charger with a VW logo on it.

the_amazing_raisin

Felexicon wrote: »

Jesus you'd be rightly p1ssed if you had paid more than double that for the same charger with a VW logo on it.

I reckon most of the people who bought those VW chargers got them for free with an ID.3

jp101

Felexicon wrote: »

Jesus you'd be rightly p1ssed if you had paid more than double that for the same charger with a VW logo on it.

What did Volkswagen charge. That’s currently the same price they charge for one for the ID4.

Gumbo

kanuseeme wrote: »

https://skoda-webshop.ie.elli.eco/products/charger

11kw 3 phase for 392,51 € offer till 28-02

7 kw is the same price, but a quick search did not show 3 phase for cheaper.

Might suit some one.

That’s a good price for a branded charger.
Although the 7kw is max that home owners can get, I don’t think there’s any downside to having the 3phase version.

My old bmw wallbox was 3 phase / 22kw capable but I only had it connected through single phase. I think the Tesla chargers are the same set up.

This plus a decent sparks that’s not robbing you should mean it won’t be terribly more than the grant amount. Depending on cable run and meter location of course.

Risteard81

Gumbo wrote: »

This plus a decent sparks that’s not robbing you should mean it won’t be terribly more than the grant amount.

Nothing to do with robbing you. You clearly have no concept of the costs associated with being a Registered Electrical Contractor. We don't come cheap. I never negotiate on price.