Match preview & thread: FRA vs IRE (Sat Feb 3, 1645)

Flincher

Unbelievable from Sexton to bail us (and himself in fairness) out big time. The cross field kick to Earls was nearly braver than the drop goal in some ways. People would have accepted him missing the drop goal, but he would have taken serious flack had the cross kick not panned out.

I was impressed with France's physicality in defence, but we definitely need to add a few more strings to our bow in attack if we're going to make it past a World Cup quarter final. We're so predictable once we get into the red zone. We're playing the type of rugby that might grind out another Six Nations title, but the last World Cup showed you need to score tries against good defences to compete at the business end. Even today was another lesson that we need to be able to turn possession and territory into tries.

clsmooth

molloyjh wrote: »

Sextons Miss was more of a gimme. Surely you can’t ignore that? France were lucky to be within a score when they got the try etc

Could have been all so different. If Sexton nails the penalty and France come back with the Thomas try to make it 15-13 before missing the scrum penalty. Ireland having a 2 point lead, a 22m kick out and a few minutes to hold out. Could have been the French playing out the phases to get into DG territory. Not sure if that would have been even more nerve wracking than what actually happened. All in all, i'm quite happy with how it all turned out in the end

awec

When he first shaped to kick the ball it looked like he was going for a big garryowen. :pac:

.ak

Thoughts on players...

15. Rob Kearney - 6

Fairly industrious game, started off well, looks to have found some of that youthful pace of old. Nice lines, switch plays, and some excellent kicking. Some basic errors also though, don't think he did enough to plug that 5m channel for Thomas, needed to call a defender over and take the inside line. Also some uncharacteristic knock ons and non-catches.

14. Keith Earls - 8

Bloody brilliant. Such good form at the moment, had we fed him earlier for the opening salvo he'd be under the sticks, no doubt. Couple of small errors but over all contribution was excellent. Stand out back three player.

13. Robbie Henshaw - 6

Thought he had a mixed game. Felt he defended well but was very poor in attack in terms of running and distribution. Is it just me or does he pass too early? He never draws the man - I wonder if he's played too much at 12 now he's not used to the position, seemed like he felt he just needed to pass as soon as he caught it. I would've liked to have seen him ask more questions of the defences in the outside channels, he has the pace and guile. Looked better when he slotted into the 12 channel for a few route one carries.

12. Bundee Aki - 8

Personally I thought he was excellent, if a bit rough around the edges. This is his what, 2nd cap? Outstanding performance. He looks like a seasoned pro at test level. He was our only positive attacker in terms of questioning defences IMO. His foot work, vision, and carrying threat meant the French were defending backwards against him. He gave away an avoidable penalty and he probably misread a few situations too, but I thought he was excellent all over. He'll get better. Wouldn't mind seeing him play 13 and move Henshaw back in at 12 though. Also faded a bit in the 2nd half... Which is understandable considering the situation.

11. Jacob Stockdale - 6

Seems people weren't happy with his performance but I thought he did okay. Carried well, was lively around the park, alert in defence... Got caught badly by Thomas but for me that was a system error rather than any one individual. The guy is a baby, in terms of age and caps. He'll grow into it.

10. Jesus Christ - 9

Our Lord and Saviour. Thought he had a brilliant performance through out the game, kicking from hand, passing, running, tackling. All there. Sexton may have missed a sitter but I reckon the people shouting 'choker' and other such comments have never taken an odd shaped ball onto a kicking T on a grass pitch and tried to launch it between two uprights at an angle 30 meters away. Kicking a rugby ball is not easy. Elite pro's average 75% kicks. Think about that. For me there's no such thing as sitters. Put Wilko infront of a goal at an angle and ask him to kick 100 balls through them I guarantee he'll miss some... Everyone misses one now and again, sure look at France missing their own sitter, unfortunately people (fans) will always use it as an excuse for losing a game. The only time I can genuinely remember a kicker's performance costing a team a win was Brock James for Clermont in Dublin. Because everything else was working for them and he kept missing. If you lose a game by a single kick or conversion it isn't your kickers fault - the team shouldn't be in that position and should be clear winners.

09. Conor Murray - 8

Conor had a lively game, reacted well and kept things well marshalled when we halted. Some of his kicking was sublime, that touch finder in the opening minutes was a peach. I always look at him as some young lad, but today he played like an old general, those last 40 phases or whatever just wouldn't have happened without him. You have to think of the conditions, at some point a scrumhalf is gonna throw a loopy or low pass as the ball slips in his hands. Not one ball struggled to get to its target. The pass to Sexton for the drop was on a string. The defence didn't get near Johnny.

08. CJ Stander - 6.5

Mixed game. Stander had some lovely touches in the tight in terms of ball transfer and protection. He attacked the wider channels well and made yards running at backs. My issue is he's well marshalled by forwards. He's one of the biggest guys on the park and struggles to get over the gain line, he doesn't look for soft shoulders either so he generally just finds walls. Has been in decline in the past 12 months - needs something to rejuvenate his game or at risk of losing his space when Ireland try out new options down under.

07. Josh VDF - 6

Wasn't on the park long enough to impress TBH. VDF is the kind of player you appreciate after an 80 minute graft when you realise how many carries, tackles, and rucks affected he had. Like another poster said, he's death by a thousand cuts. He'll be sorely missed in the squad if its ligament damage.

06. Peter O'Mahoney - 6

Fairly quiet game, as usual his work in the line out was excellent, but I was hoping he'd have more affect on the deck and win us a few penalties but he wasn't present there.

05. James Ryan - 7

Very, very impressive stint. Couple of shaky lineouts but his defensive work was outstanding and his ability to get over the gain line got us out of trouble a couple of times.

04. Ian Henderson - 7

Equally as good, his carry game stepped up another gear when we needed it. Unfortunately I think we missed Toner but Schmidt is right to experiment with a new lock partnership now.

03. Tadgh Furlong - 8

I still marvel at the work rate of Furlong. He's a fecking tighthead prop and he's popping up outside our 10 channel more than any other forward it feels like at times. He gets around the corner so quickly, and despite the fact he constantly looks like he's suffering from heart attack he still gets up and gets there. His carrying was a little dull today but he got the job done. Scrummaging was excellent, despite our scrum not being it's usual weapon the TH side seemed locked in.

02. Rory Best - 5.5

Decent darts, but fairly average across the pitch. Thought he was a bit quiet but did his best to disrupt ball on the ground.

01. Cian Healy - 6.5

Seemed to struggle a little against the French tight head but in open play he was very good. Great foot work, great hands. Seems to be reinventing his game. Long may it continue.

Subs:

16. Sean Cronin - 6

Good impact, as usual. Carried well and asked questions of the French defence when he came on. Reckon he'll be restricted to the bench for the championship, but no better impact sub.

17. Jack McGrath - 6

Decent carrying but scrumming seemed to be an improvement over Cian. Spoiled at LH right now.

18. John Ryan - 4

Badly minced by the French loosie for that scrum towards the end of the game. Luckily the French kicker missed.

19. Devin Toner - 5

Good impact when he came on, seemed to unbalance the scrum at first but his bulk makes a difference.

20. Dan Leavy - 8

Absolutely excellent when he came on. Can subs get MoTM? He deserved it! Was everywhere in defence but his attack play was unbelievable. Weirdly enough, if Leavy doesn't come on, I don't think we win that game - as in the 40 phases at the end, he played a massive part on getting us up the pitch.

21/22/23 McGrath/Carberry/McFadden - N/A

The Rape of Lucretia

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

Hang on.....how can that be... didn't people say we are going to win by 18 points..how could this happen?!?

The conditions. The conditions.

Having said that though, its an absolutely beautiful night here in the City of (Sexton) Love. 4 degrees, persistent drizzle, bone chilling breeze on top of that. God, I've never seen Paris looking so well.

.ak

awec wrote: »

Wait, what?

Are you saying it was the plan to play pretty poorly, and trying to play better was not appropriate?

I'm not buying that.

No, I'm not saying that, nor did I.

There's a difference between playing decently without hitting top gear then just throwing the kitchen sink at it.

I reckon we went with the intention to have a very measured game plan in place. To not push a running game as it may play into the hands of a French team clearly designed to feed off counter attacks.

stephen_n

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, you're right... but we knew the answer to this problem before the game started. Move the ball before the point of contact and make it easier to generate quick ball. Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22). We've seen tons of teams overcome this problem at many different levels, we know the pathology and we know the solution.

We were not good enough today and we couldn't break down a French team who haven't won in 8 tests and who couldn't beat Japan a few months ago.

Even worse, we made 0 line breaks against a team who had a different defense coach this time two months ago.

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

Pretty difficult conditions for shifting the ball anywhere today. Playing an offloading game today would have been suicidal. There was pretty much no way to prepare properly to play a team with a new coach and 10 new players since there last game. You are very dismissive of that French performance, which is clearly based more on previous performances, than what actually happened today. 95% success rate off 240 tackles is an amazing figure, that sort of accuracy and work rate would impede most teams. They didn’t run out of steam like normal either, that tackle rate didn’t waver right up to the drop goal. That was a far better performance by France than you are willing to give credit for, unsurprisingly.

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22).

If it's the passage of play I'm thinking of I was going mad at that... for the officials not to award us a penalty for that. You're right, we put ourselves in a bad position there and took a poor option, but the assist tackler latched onto Furlong on the ball and never released when Furlong was brought to ground. He has to release, just like Furlong has to be given the opportunity to present the ball.

I think we could've been in for a try at that point, France were scrambling.

The Rape of Lucretia

awec wrote: »

I think you're confusing two things, the result and the performance.

The result is good.

The performance was definitely not good. It should never have come down to an 82nd minute drop goal.

France were one dimensional but so were Ireland.

I think this view is a tad harsh. I think they played some fine varied plays, Ireland particularly, and mixed the tactics well. Some were even well executed, but it was a victory for defensive systems. I didnt expect France, in their circumstances, to be as excellent as they were in that facet. And given the climactics, neither team really broke the other at all. I think the score and close shave, distracts from a good Ireland perdormance. I would not be downbeat about our prospects at all. If anything, there will be a confidence boost - we have been the team on the other side of these last gasp rescues in the past often enough- to pull one out of the fire, shows the squad is made of strong stuff. Ita easy to win the ones when everythi g is humming and there is little pressure. Contrast with letting Scotland slip from our grasp 12 months ago.

Bridge93

Best player on the pitch by a mile was Guilhem Guirado. If ESPN is to be believed he made 31 tackles, had a turnover which got Frances first 3 points and was 8/9 in the lineout on a crap day

Bazzo

baas baa wrote: »

Oh to be in a bar in England when that kick went over.

I was in this exact situation. I got about 20-50 handshakes/high fives/bear hugs immediately following the whistle.... honestly we give the English far more **** than they give us, luckily they seem to get that it's all in good fun :pac:

I'm torn, elated with grinding out that at hard-fought win; because I reckon the sign of a good team is winning when they have no right to. At the same time it looks like we maybe haven't learned lessons we should have from previous matches...

It's a very delicate situation but I can't see how the skulduggery at the end of the match was anything short of cheating. Dupont clearly did not have a head injury, but knew that Machenaud could not come back on unless he went off for a HIA. Owens was absolutely right to bow to the decision of the doctor(even though he clearly bought it about as much as the rest of us) and the doctor obviously needs to act with maximum protection towards the player but I don't think anybody can kid themselves into believing there's been anything but flagrant abuse of the rules here. Not sure exactlty how to address it at the moment but I'll confer with the bottom of my pint glass and get back to ye.

Squidgy Black

connemara man wrote: »

How much of that was clean possession though, which is the important stat from that

This is what I meant. We didn't lose possession at the lineout but we were definitely sloppy and the French put a lot of pressure on us.

razorblunt

Flincher wrote: »

Unbelievable from Sexton to bail us (and himself in fairness) out big time. The cross field kick to Earls was nearly braver than the drop goal in some ways. People would have accepted him missing the drop goal, but he would have taken serious flack had the cross kick not panned out.

I was impressed with France's physicality in defence, but we definitely need to add a few more strings to our bow in attack if we're going to make it past a World Cup quarter final. We're so predictable once we get into the red zone. We're playing the type of rugby that might grind out another Six Nations title, but the last World Cup showed you need to score tries against good defences to compete at the business end. Even today was another lesson that we need to be able to turn possession and territory into tries.

I think Brunel will give this French team a solid backbone, they look more cohesive and the post game huddle shows a togetherness that was lacking previously. Early days I know but I think there’s a base there to build on ... as long as they don’t do anything silly or typically French.

.ak

MJohnston wrote: »

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

Gas when you turn on closed captions too.

joseywhales

I mean talent wise the French players are just as good in most positions. It's hardly a shock that it was a close game. It's a shock how bad France were under noves.

sydthebeat

We never picked and went once in the whole game.
If you don't test them, the hymen stays intact...

Losty Dublin

swiwi_ wrote: »

That is a low low blow.

“No you do the match thread Swiwi”

Meanwhile plotting behind the scenes.

I propose a truce: mods combine into 1 thread and then the match preview becomes not only a collectors item but also something you can read while sitting on the thrown with pre-match nerves.

The alternative is that I send my homies down to sort out Losty

Just off the phone to Johnny Sexton, Swiwi. He says that it was our double headed thread that inspired his drop goal :pac:

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

We never picked and went once in the whole game.
If you don't test them, the hymen stays intact...

We did?

Couple of times in the first half, Murray was under a ruck and the forwards went in and attacked the fringes.

It didn't get us much and we seemed to be afraid of getting isolated and turned over.

MJohnston

It's going to be really difficult to tackle any abuse of the HIA process, because any kind of discouragement would only deter legitimately concussed players from seeking treatment.

Like for example, I saw someone suggest on Twitter that it should be mandatory that anyone subject to HIA would have to take a week off (missing the next game, essentially), thought it seemed like a good idea on the surface, but you'd definitely find it counterproductive in the end. Don't know what the solution is.

cameramonkey

Sexton looks like he has cramp about 2 minutes before he scores. He is down on the ground as play goes on around him stretching his calf.

Some boyo.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, you're right... but we knew the answer to this problem before the game started. Move the ball before the point of contact and make it easier to generate quick ball. Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22). We've seen tons of teams overcome this problem at many different levels, we know the pathology and we know the solution.

We were not good enough today and we couldn't break down a French team who haven't won in 8 tests and who couldn't beat Japan a few months ago.

Even worse, we made 0 line breaks against a team who had a different defense coach this time two months ago.

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

Would you stop with this shít? I thought France were good today and it's pretty clear that they desperately wanted the win. You can dismiss their performance if you want but if you think a team with the quality of player as France that is fully committed is going to turn over for an away team you have no high ground to be laughing at me from.

ionadnapokot

Bridge93 wrote: »

Best player on the pitch by a mile was Guilhem Guirado. If ESPN is to be believed he made 31 tackles, had a turnover which got Frances first 3 points and was 8/9 in the lineout on a crap day

Massive performance. Guirado is World class.
Ireland’s performance was not. Excep. Sexton & Murray final 5 min.
I need to watch this again but nothing is standing out in terms of variation.
Half back reliance...well it’s them or bust. I thought Bundi might be the solution. Conditions maybe. But Jesus a French rabble had Ireland’s number.

kevingonewest

MJohnston wrote: »

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

C'est terrible......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFw54vUEPY

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

Anyone else see Guirado then smiling? A great player, I thought he knew the best of the best had won the day despite France's best efforts & even cheating

Elvisjuice

Guilhem Guirado got motm got to love the french one eyed commentators

its_phil

Elvisjuice wrote: »

Guilhem Guirado got motm got to love the french one eyed commentators

31 tackles and 8 from 9 line outs. A more than worthy MOTM

wp_rathead

Elvisjuice wrote: »

Guilhem Guirado got motm got to love the french one eyed commentators

this post is beautifully ironic

Elvisjuice

its_phil wrote: »

31 tackles and 8 from 9 line outs. A more than worthy MOTM

thought James Ryan was better on debut for six nations , yep on giddy if they won the match . Ryan had a massive tackle count too http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=291690&league=180659

Peregrine

Elvisjuice wrote: »

Guilhem Guirado got motm got to love the french one eyed commentators

Deserved it too.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

One of the most committed Irish sides in history were minutes from beating the RWC winners in waiting despite winning zero games in the 1991 5N tournament. That Australia side were a great team and far better than that Irish side. But we were at home and the players were ready to put their bodies on the line.

Commitment is a massive part of the game and always will be. France put their bodies on the line. We lacked the quality to break that down but a huge factor in tonight was the level of physicality and determination of France. They deserve credit for that.

It was called out by multiple people beforehand that this game was going to be a bruiser and not the easy fixture that some were claiming. That was naive. We could have played better but we would have needed to play very well to beat that French team comfortably. Any team that shows that level of commitment and has that level of natural talent is going to be in with a shout.

bilston

Asus X540L wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I mean you can. There's absolutely no way we should have needed an 80th minute drop goal to win a game against a French side in disarray who were incapable of getting out of their own half or holding on to possession. 68% possession and 0 line breaks says a lot.

But the glorious manner of the victory offsets that a bit. If he hadn't been quite as toothless as we were then we wouldn't have seen the 40 phases!

Stockdale was poor under the high ball and in defense. Earlsie wasn't great either.
Those two could be facing the axe. Then again who'd replace them?

When were they poor under the high ball? I can't think of one example from the game when they were poor under the high ball?

I don't remember either being poor in defence either. I've seen a few trying to blame Stockdale for the try when they were at least 3 other players equally or more culpable. As for Earls he was comfortably our most dangerous outside back.