Match preview & thread: FRA vs IRE (Sat Feb 3, 1645)

Hitchens

There won't be a cow milked in Foxrock this evening :pac:

.ak

Anyway, few thoughts on the game, and the consensus around here and other online channels.

Have to say I had a bit of a giggle to myself reading through posts on here, twitter, and whatsapp etc. after the Thomas try. The way people were going on you'd swear France had us over a barrel and were flogging us with those really hard baguettes with the dark crust and pointy ends and were were losing by 1,000 points. Like it or not, there is an unsavoury element to Irish fans that just love to stick the knife in, whether that's targeted at the team, Sexton, or Joe Schmidt it makes sad reading, until we win the game and then it's just funny.

There's two understandings of the game from what I can see; Ireland were rubbish and lucky to win, or that Ireland were utterly astonishing and the ABs wouldn't have done as good a job.

The truth however is in the middle.

Were we rubbish? Absolutely not. Were we amazing? Not exactly. But we were the better team, of that I have no doubt.

To be honest, we put in a very, very clever performance and it's something I thought we'd see before kick off. In every interview both staff and player commented on struggling to do their homework on the French side. They looked at Bordeaux, they looked at individual players, they looked at themselves. How to do prepare for a team you've never played in their back yard? You play simple, simple rugby. For me it was working too - it wasn't pretty, it wasn't sexy, but we were always comfortable until the 50th minute, then conditions worsened, mistakes were made and we then rather pull away we struggled to keep our noses infront. That 20 minute period was a poor one for us, but had we taken a few oppertunities prior to that the game would've been dead and buried in a very professional, tidy manner. Instead we have a lot of people complaining about our lack of creativity etc. This was not the game, not the team, not the conditions to be throwing the ball around and varying our play especially with a fairly new midfield.

No, we played in 3rd gear at most and that was the right plan. I have no doubt this Irish team has a few more gears left in them, put pushing for those gears against a passionate French team in Paris was not the place. People keep saying oh we never win in Paris because they used to be much better.. That's not true at all, the French have been poor for years and we've struggled over there the last few meetings. You can't decide a rugby match on odds or paper. The French are always passionate when they play against us. They may be in a period of issue right now but these are still big 16-20st players with good hands and good skills. Defensively very, very well drilled and a couple of danger men on turn over ball. Truth be told, France played very well today, but so did we. What we didn't do well is turn that good play into points.

.ak

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The knee. Its a 10 week recovery.

Joe says VDF out of next weeks game. Hopeful it wont be too serious if thats the case.

Whoosh.

C__MC

I think we were extremely lucky today and overall it was a poor showing. Sexton Kick was pure class but france missed a gimme moments before which would have sealed it. In saying that England only scraped past France last year. They are always tricky even if they are a pale shadow of their brilliant past. Next weeks games are huge IMO.

.ak

Some other food for thought. Sexton's kick goes over in the first place, does the French heads drop? And if we defended that 5 meter channel on a kick chase like every team from u15s up knows how to do, does Thomas score? Then all of a sudden we win very comfortably in Paris without getting out of 3rd gear. That just doesn't happen, no matter how poor France play in autumn. I don't care how boring it is, I'd have taken your arm off for that.

mfceiling

.ak wrote: »

Which part of the brain is that?

Just checked the little ones school book there...

The knee bones connected to the brain bone
The brain bones connected to the neck bone
The neck bones connected to the leg bone
And that's a natural fact

Pretty much medically proven right there.

robyntmorton

Indeed, Ireland's first game of the 6 Nations is always a messy affair. It seems we take a while to settle, and it has at times caught us out. With that first game being France in Paris, I was expecting it to be a much harder affair than it was for the first 50-60 minutes. We were not brilliant, but we were not bad, and the French were not putting us to the sword like they might have.

When the French suddenly turned it on, we had difficulty, though most teams would have conceded that Thomas try. We held in there, ground it out, and at the end of the game produced 2 minutes and 41 phases of magic to get the death or glory drop goal chance, which as we know ended in glory.

We do need to get better, but it is not a disaster, and we can yet settle into this, leaving us with the Grand Slam decider in Twickenham. The doom and gloom thoughts are a little premature, yes, but we can still improve and show the skill that the team does have.

ScrubsfanChris

C'est terrible......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFw54vUEPY

awec

.ak wrote: »

Anyway, few thoughts on the game, and the consensus around here and other online channels.

Have to say I had a bit of a giggle to myself reading through posts on here, twitter, and whatsapp etc. after the Thomas try. The way people were going on you'd swear France had us over a barrel and were flogging us with those really hard baguettes with the dark crust and pointy ends and were were losing by 1,000 points. Like it or not, there is an unsavoury element to Irish fans that just love to stick the knife in, whether that's targeted at the team, Sexton, or Joe Schmidt it makes sad reading, until we win the game and then it's just funny.

There's two understandings of the game from what I can see; Ireland were rubbish and lucky to win, or that Ireland were utterly astonishing and the ABs wouldn't have done as good a job.

The truth however is in the middle.

Were we rubbish? Absolutely not. Were we amazing? Not exactly. But we were the better team, of that I have no doubt.

To be honest, we put in a very, very clever performance and it's something I thought we'd see before kick off. In every interview both staff and player commented on struggling to do their homework on the French side. They looked at Bordeaux, they looked at individual players, they looked at themselves. How to do prepare for a team you've never played in their back yard? You play simple, simple rugby. For me it was working too - it wasn't pretty, it wasn't sexy, but we were always comfortable until the 50th minute, then conditions worsened, mistakes were made and we then rather pull away we struggled to keep our noses infront. That 20 minute period was a poor one for us, but had we taken a few oppertunities prior to that the game would've been dead and buried in a very professional, tidy manner. Instead we have a lot of people complaining about our lack of creativity etc. This was not the game, not the team, not the conditions to be throwing the ball around and varying our play especially with a fairly new midfield.

No, we played in 3rd gear at most and that was the right plan. I have no doubt this Irish team has a few more gears left in them, put pushing for those gears against a passionate French team in Paris was not the place. People keep saying oh we never win in Paris because they used to be much better.. That's not true at all, the French have been poor for years and we've struggled over there the last few meetings. You can't decide a rugby match on odds or paper. The French are always passionate when they play against us. They may be in a period of issue right now but these are still big 16-20st players with good hands and good skills. Defensively very, very well drilled and a couple of danger men on turn over ball. Truth be told, France played very well today, but so did we. What we didn't do well is turn that good play into points.

Wait, what?

Are you saying it was the plan to play pretty poorly, and trying to play better was not appropriate?

I'm not buying that.

keith_sixteen

awec wrote: »

This is your last warning on this. If you make another post like:

- "people celebrating us losing"
- "you're not real fans"
- "disdain for a win"

you will be taking a break.

I encourage you to contribute more constructively rather than take sneaky digs at other posters.

Lol. How dismissive. Weren't you on a thread on AH recently saying how you had better things to be doing than modding? Might be time to knock on it the head if this is your standard.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Pretty hard to generate line breaks off slow static ball, we just didn’t clear the rucks anywhere near effectively enough. The French may be in disarray, but they played Owens extremely effectively when it came to slowing our ball down. We got outmuscled and every time that happens we are going to struggle.

Yeah, you're right... but we knew the answer to this problem before the game started. Move the ball before the point of contact and make it easier to generate quick ball. Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22). We've seen tons of teams overcome this problem at many different levels, we know the pathology and we know the solution.

We were not good enough today and we couldn't break down a French team who haven't won in 8 tests and who couldn't beat Japan a few months ago.

Even worse, we made 0 line breaks against a team who had a different defense coach this time two months ago.

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

connemara man

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Lol. How dismissive. Weren't you on a thread on AH recently saying how you had better things to be doing than modding? Might be time to knock on it the head if this is your standard.

Don't discuss mod instructions on thread

The Talking Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I have conceded that you are taking the p*ss at this stage!

Are you accusing me of trolling?

I stand by what I wrote, that was an immense French performance against an imperfect Ireland.

MJohnston

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

C'est terrible......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFw54vUEPY

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

Burkie1203

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, you're right... but we knew the answer to this problem before the game started. Move the ball before the point of contact and make it easier to generate quick ball. Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22). We've seen tons of teams overcome this problem at many different levels, we know the pathology and we know the solution.

We were not good enough today and we couldn't break down a French team who haven't won in 8 tests and who couldn't beat Japan a few months ago.

Even worse, we made 0 line breaks against a team who had a different defense coach this time two months ago.

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

New coach, some good new players, some fine athletes, in front of a home crowd. Yeah France were going to just roll over. They are no world beaters but they aren't a bad side either and they are very capable of winning games in this 6n. They have england at home in round 4 too which could be critical

The weather helped them as it made it an arm wrestle which we didnt want.

adox

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Go on there so.

I posted that after we conceded a try, then lost a scrum near our own 22 and then gave away a penalty if I remember.

keith_sixteen

connemara man wrote: »

Don't discuss mod instructions on thread

That instruction has already been discussed and called out for the horse**** it is. Are you going to ban the other poster for doing so also? Or just me?

mod - taking a short break.

ScrubsfanChris

irishbucsfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

New coach, some good new players, some fine athletes, in front of a home crowd. Yeah France were going to just roll over. They are no world beaters but they aren't a bad side either and they are very capable of winning games in this 6n. They have england at home in round 4 too which could be critical

The weather helped them as it made it an arm wrestle which we didnt want.

Noone ever said they would. Not even once.

And yes, they are a bad side. Their record since the last 6 Nations:

LLLLLDL

And those are mostly games against sides like South Africa and Japan, not top sides. Let's end the fantasy that France are the team they used to be. If they were, we'd have been in trouble.

clsmooth

Just watched the last 5 mins again. Definitely better second time around Henderson got through a huge amount of work with some good carries and a great take from the 22. Sexton with an inch perfect drop out, a half break, that kick pass to Earls and finally his 'pi de rstance' (feel free to use that one Gerry). That was some effort by the lads to go 40 phases in that weather at that stage of the game against France. Very impressive way to clutch victory from the jaws of defeat although questions maybe need to be asked about 3rd quarter which seemed to be a similar issue in the AI.

And what an impact by Leavy. He doesn't seem to be a huge guy, but always picks good lines and makes ground. Very intelligent player. Has anyone ever seen him without the swollen/cut cheek after a game? He always looks like Nate Diaz after a couple of rounds of having the head pinged off him by Conor McGregor

Ardillaun

.ak wrote: »

Some other food for thought. Sexton's kick goes over in the first place, does the French heads drop? And if we defended that 5 meter channel on a kick chase like every team from u15s up knows how to do, does Thomas score? Then all of a sudden we win very comfortably in Paris without getting out of 3rd gear. That just doesn't happen, no matter how poor France play in autumn. I don't care how boring it is, I'd have taken your arm off for that.

It was one of those days when French heads never dropped. They kept at it all the way through.

molloyjh

Squidgy Black wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Do we need to look at our back row? Are they adding much to our attacking game at all? Would Stander, Leavy and Murphy be a better option? POM was better today than Stander, but Stander does the real dog fight blindside stuff well. What we need is a good link man (Leavy) and a good 8 too. I think Murphy would work better than Conan. POM on the bench. At the moment we don’t have much in the way of effective and/or dynamic carriers in there.

Our lineout wasn't the best today so I'd be wary of taking POM out of the equation in that respect especially if Ryan keeps Toner out of the team. Taking POM out just makes it weaker again.

We only lost 1 of our 14 line outs though....

Hurricane Flew

As usual Ireland overhyped. Going to win by 10 /12 pts said all the experts. Puke rugby from Joe Schmidt. Trying to win another 6 nations by kicking penalties. Let the team attack for god sake and less of the negative play crap.

NollagShona

Too many pints so I’m off for a HIA

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

We only lost 1 of our 14 line outs though....

Yeah the only lineout we missed today was a throw to Ryan at the tail which drifted too far over the French side. It was a difficult throw to make and nearly came off.

Not bad day out for the lineout. Albeit against a team whose lineout coach was coaching his first ever game of rugby.

The Rape of Lucretia

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

Yeah... like... who are you?

And yourself, while you're asking ?

connemara man

molloyjh wrote: »

We only lost 1 of our 14 line outs though....

How much of that was clean possession though, which is the important stat from that

molloyjh

C__MC wrote: »

I think we were extremely lucky today and overall it was a poor showing. Sexton Kick was pure class but france missed a gimme moments before which would have sealed it. In saying that England only scraped past France last year. They are always tricky even if they are a pale shadow of their brilliant past. Next weeks games are huge IMO.

Sextons Miss was more of a gimme. Surely you can’t ignore that? France were lucky to be within a score when they got the try etc

long_b

MJohnston wrote: »

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

6.55
Anyone remember their Leaving Cert French



http://goutaste.com/french-curseword-of-the-day-putain/

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

Re-watched it a few times now, still can't help but almost throw my arms up when that drop goal goes over.

Also that's a good clip to watch to see why someone like McFadden get's picked, took ball on in tight exchanges when there were no forwards left at first receiver and still made gainline and delivered the ball back.

Might not always be on the highlights reel but this win shows the importance of having the thoroughly dependable guys in the mix as well. 40 Phases.