Match preview & thread: FRA vs IRE (Sat Feb 3, 1645)

.ak · 03-02-2018 10:55PM

Some other food for thought. Sexton's kick goes over in the first place, does the French heads drop? And if we defended that 5 meter channel on a kick chase like every team from u15s up knows how to do, does Thomas score? Then all of a sudden we win very comfortably in Paris without getting out of 3rd gear. That just doesn't happen, no matter how poor France play in autumn. I don't care how boring it is, I'd have taken your arm off for that.

mfceiling · 03-02-2018 10:55PM

.ak wrote: »

Which part of the brain is that?

Just checked the little ones school book there...

The knee bones connected to the brain bone
The brain bones connected to the neck bone
The neck bones connected to the leg bone
And that's a natural fact

Pretty much medically proven right there.

robyntmorton · 03-02-2018 10:57PM

Indeed, Ireland's first game of the 6 Nations is always a messy affair. It seems we take a while to settle, and it has at times caught us out. With that first game being France in Paris, I was expecting it to be a much harder affair than it was for the first 50-60 minutes. We were not brilliant, but we were not bad, and the French were not putting us to the sword like they might have.

When the French suddenly turned it on, we had difficulty, though most teams would have conceded that Thomas try. We held in there, ground it out, and at the end of the game produced 2 minutes and 41 phases of magic to get the death or glory drop goal chance, which as we know ended in glory.

We do need to get better, but it is not a disaster, and we can yet settle into this, leaving us with the Grand Slam decider in Twickenham. The doom and gloom thoughts are a little premature, yes, but we can still improve and show the skill that the team does have.

ScrubsfanChris · 03-02-2018 10:57PM

C'est terrible......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFw54vUEPY

awec · 03-02-2018 11:02PM

.ak wrote: »

Anyway, few thoughts on the game, and the consensus around here and other online channels.

Have to say I had a bit of a giggle to myself reading through posts on here, twitter, and whatsapp etc. after the Thomas try. The way people were going on you'd swear France had us over a barrel and were flogging us with those really hard baguettes with the dark crust and pointy ends and were were losing by 1,000 points. Like it or not, there is an unsavoury element to Irish fans that just love to stick the knife in, whether that's targeted at the team, Sexton, or Joe Schmidt it makes sad reading, until we win the game and then it's just funny.

There's two understandings of the game from what I can see; Ireland were rubbish and lucky to win, or that Ireland were utterly astonishing and the ABs wouldn't have done as good a job.

The truth however is in the middle.

Were we rubbish? Absolutely not. Were we amazing? Not exactly. But we were the better team, of that I have no doubt.

To be honest, we put in a very, very clever performance and it's something I thought we'd see before kick off. In every interview both staff and player commented on struggling to do their homework on the French side. They looked at Bordeaux, they looked at individual players, they looked at themselves. How to do prepare for a team you've never played in their back yard? You play simple, simple rugby. For me it was working too - it wasn't pretty, it wasn't sexy, but we were always comfortable until the 50th minute, then conditions worsened, mistakes were made and we then rather pull away we struggled to keep our noses infront. That 20 minute period was a poor one for us, but had we taken a few oppertunities prior to that the game would've been dead and buried in a very professional, tidy manner. Instead we have a lot of people complaining about our lack of creativity etc. This was not the game, not the team, not the conditions to be throwing the ball around and varying our play especially with a fairly new midfield.

No, we played in 3rd gear at most and that was the right plan. I have no doubt this Irish team has a few more gears left in them, put pushing for those gears against a passionate French team in Paris was not the place. People keep saying oh we never win in Paris because they used to be much better.. That's not true at all, the French have been poor for years and we've struggled over there the last few meetings. You can't decide a rugby match on odds or paper. The French are always passionate when they play against us. They may be in a period of issue right now but these are still big 16-20st players with good hands and good skills. Defensively very, very well drilled and a couple of danger men on turn over ball. Truth be told, France played very well today, but so did we. What we didn't do well is turn that good play into points.

Wait, what?

Are you saying it was the plan to play pretty poorly, and trying to play better was not appropriate?

I'm not buying that.

keith_sixteen · 03-02-2018 11:02PM

awec wrote: »

This is your last warning on this. If you make another post like:

- "people celebrating us losing"
- "you're not real fans"
- "disdain for a win"

you will be taking a break.

I encourage you to contribute more constructively rather than take sneaky digs at other posters.

Lol. How dismissive. Weren't you on a thread on AH recently saying how you had better things to be doing than modding? Might be time to knock on it the head if this is your standard.

irishbucsfan · 03-02-2018 11:03PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Pretty hard to generate line breaks off slow static ball, we just didn’t clear the rucks anywhere near effectively enough. The French may be in disarray, but they played Owens extremely effectively when it came to slowing our ball down. We got outmuscled and every time that happens we are going to struggle.

Yeah, you're right... but we knew the answer to this problem before the game started. Move the ball before the point of contact and make it easier to generate quick ball. Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22). We've seen tons of teams overcome this problem at many different levels, we know the pathology and we know the solution.

We were not good enough today and we couldn't break down a French team who haven't won in 8 tests and who couldn't beat Japan a few months ago.

Even worse, we made 0 line breaks against a team who had a different defense coach this time two months ago.

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

03-02-2018 11:03PM

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Lol. How dismissive. Weren't you on a thread on AH recently saying how you had better things to be doing than modding? Might be time to knock on it the head if this is your standard.

Don't discuss mod instructions on thread

03-02-2018 11:04PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I have conceded that you are taking the p*ss at this stage!

Are you accusing me of trolling?

I stand by what I wrote, that was an immense French performance against an imperfect Ireland.

MJohnston · 03-02-2018 11:04PM

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

C'est terrible......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFw54vUEPY

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

Burkie1203 · 03-02-2018 11:07PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah, you're right... but we knew the answer to this problem before the game started. Move the ball before the point of contact and make it easier to generate quick ball. Don't stand there staring at the scrum half for 30 seconds while the ball is slow and then go straight to ground and get turned over (like Furlong and Murray's combination in the French 22). We've seen tons of teams overcome this problem at many different levels, we know the pathology and we know the solution.

We were not good enough today and we couldn't break down a French team who haven't won in 8 tests and who couldn't beat Japan a few months ago.

Even worse, we made 0 line breaks against a team who had a different defense coach this time two months ago.

Some people want to build up this French team so that we can feel better about ourselves, France are not good at all. Venjur talking about how committed they were is comical to me. Rugby is not a competition to see who is the most committed, some of the most committed Irish teams in history have been absolutely walloped by southern hemisphere sides. We couldn't do that to France today. We couldn't do it to Scotland last year. Whether its a mental, technical or physical problem, it needs to be addressed before 2019.

New coach, some good new players, some fine athletes, in front of a home crowd. Yeah France were going to just roll over. They are no world beaters but they aren't a bad side either and they are very capable of winning games in this 6n. They have england at home in round 4 too which could be critical

The weather helped them as it made it an arm wrestle which we didnt want.

adox · 03-02-2018 11:10PM

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Go on there so.

I posted that after we conceded a try, then lost a scrum near our own 22 and then gave away a penalty if I remember.

keith_sixteen · 03-02-2018 11:10PM

connemara man wrote: »

Don't discuss mod instructions on thread

That instruction has already been discussed and called out for the horse**** it is. Are you going to ban the other poster for doing so also? Or just me?

mod - taking a short break.

ScrubsfanChris · 03-02-2018 11:14PM

irishbucsfan · 03-02-2018 11:14PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

New coach, some good new players, some fine athletes, in front of a home crowd. Yeah France were going to just roll over. They are no world beaters but they aren't a bad side either and they are very capable of winning games in this 6n. They have england at home in round 4 too which could be critical

The weather helped them as it made it an arm wrestle which we didnt want.

Noone ever said they would. Not even once.

And yes, they are a bad side. Their record since the last 6 Nations:

LLLLLDL

And those are mostly games against sides like South Africa and Japan, not top sides. Let's end the fantasy that France are the team they used to be. If they were, we'd have been in trouble.

clsmooth · 03-02-2018 11:16PM

Just watched the last 5 mins again. Definitely better second time around

Henderson got through a huge amount of work with some good carries and a great take from the 22. Sexton with an inch perfect drop out, a half break, that kick pass to Earls and finally his 'pi de rstance' (feel free to use that one Gerry). That was some effort by the lads to go 40 phases in that weather at that stage of the game against France. Very impressive way to clutch victory from the jaws of defeat although questions maybe need to be asked about 3rd quarter which seemed to be a similar issue in the AI.

And what an impact by Leavy. He doesn't seem to be a huge guy, but always picks good lines and makes ground. Very intelligent player. Has anyone ever seen him without the swollen/cut cheek after a game? He always looks like Nate Diaz after a couple of rounds of having the head pinged off him by Conor McGregor

Ardillaun · 03-02-2018 11:18PM

.ak wrote: »

Some other food for thought. Sexton's kick goes over in the first place, does the French heads drop? And if we defended that 5 meter channel on a kick chase like every team from u15s up knows how to do, does Thomas score? Then all of a sudden we win very comfortably in Paris without getting out of 3rd gear. That just doesn't happen, no matter how poor France play in autumn. I don't care how boring it is, I'd have taken your arm off for that.

It was one of those days when French heads never dropped. They kept at it all the way through.

molloyjh · 03-02-2018 11:20PM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

Do we need to look at our back row? Are they adding much to our attacking game at all? Would Stander, Leavy and Murphy be a better option? POM was better today than Stander, but Stander does the real dog fight blindside stuff well. What we need is a good link man (Leavy) and a good 8 too. I think Murphy would work better than Conan. POM on the bench. At the moment we don’t have much in the way of effective and/or dynamic carriers in there.

Our lineout wasn't the best today so I'd be wary of taking POM out of the equation in that respect especially if Ryan keeps Toner out of the team. Taking POM out just makes it weaker again.

We only lost 1 of our 14 line outs though....

Hurricane Flew · 03-02-2018 11:20PM

As usual Ireland overhyped. Going to win by 10 /12 pts said all the experts. Puke rugby from Joe Schmidt. Trying to win another 6 nations by kicking penalties. Let the team attack for god sake and less of the negative play crap.

NollagShona · 03-02-2018 11:21PM

Too many pints so I’m off for a HIA

irishbucsfan · 03-02-2018 11:21PM

molloyjh wrote: »

We only lost 1 of our 14 line outs though....

Yeah the only lineout we missed today was a throw to Ryan at the tail which drifted too far over the French side. It was a difficult throw to make and nearly came off.

Not bad day out for the lineout. Albeit against a team whose lineout coach was coaching his first ever game of rugby.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-02-2018 11:22PM

Jack Kanoff wrote: »

Yeah... like... who are you?

And yourself, while you're asking ?

03-02-2018 11:23PM

molloyjh wrote: »

We only lost 1 of our 14 line outs though....

How much of that was clean possession though, which is the important stat from that

molloyjh · 03-02-2018 11:23PM

C__MC wrote: »

I think we were extremely lucky today and overall it was a poor showing. Sexton Kick was pure class but france missed a gimme moments before which would have sealed it. In saying that England only scraped past France last year. They are always tricky even if they are a pale shadow of their brilliant past. Next weeks games are huge IMO.

Sextons Miss was more of a gimme. Surely you can’t ignore that? France were lucky to be within a score when they got the try etc

long_b · 03-02-2018 11:26PM

MJohnston wrote: »

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

6.55
Anyone remember their Leaving Cert French

http://goutaste.com/french-curseword-of-the-day-putain/

03-02-2018 11:30PM

MJohnston wrote: »

The commentator screaming that, the closeup of the crying Frenchman, the bloodied French bodies lying on the ground. That's a perfect video.

Re-watched it a few times now, still can't help but almost throw my arms up when that drop goal goes over.

Also that's a good clip to watch to see why someone like McFadden get's picked, took ball on in tight exchanges when there were no forwards left at first receiver and still made gainline and delivered the ball back.

Might not always be on the highlights reel but this win shows the importance of having the thoroughly dependable guys in the mix as well. 40 Phases.

Flincher · 03-02-2018 11:30PM

Unbelievable from Sexton to bail us (and himself in fairness) out big time. The cross field kick to Earls was nearly braver than the drop goal in some ways. People would have accepted him missing the drop goal, but he would have taken serious flack had the cross kick not panned out.

I was impressed with France's physicality in defence, but we definitely need to add a few more strings to our bow in attack if we're going to make it past a World Cup quarter final. We're so predictable once we get into the red zone. We're playing the type of rugby that might grind out another Six Nations title, but the last World Cup showed you need to score tries against good defences to compete at the business end. Even today was another lesson that we need to be able to turn possession and territory into tries.

clsmooth · 03-02-2018 11:32PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Sextons Miss was more of a gimme. Surely you can’t ignore that? France were lucky to be within a score when they got the try etc

Could have been all so different. If Sexton nails the penalty and France come back with the Thomas try to make it 15-13 before missing the scrum penalty. Ireland having a 2 point lead, a 22m kick out and a few minutes to hold out. Could have been the French playing out the phases to get into DG territory. Not sure if that would have been even more nerve wracking than what actually happened. All in all, i'm quite happy with how it all turned out in the end

awec · 03-02-2018 11:33PM

When he first shaped to kick the ball it looked like he was going for a big garryowen. :pac:

.ak · 03-02-2018 11:37PM

Thoughts on players...

15. Rob Kearney - 6

Fairly industrious game, started off well, looks to have found some of that youthful pace of old. Nice lines, switch plays, and some excellent kicking. Some basic errors also though, don't think he did enough to plug that 5m channel for Thomas, needed to call a defender over and take the inside line. Also some uncharacteristic knock ons and non-catches.

14. Keith Earls - 8

Bloody brilliant. Such good form at the moment, had we fed him earlier for the opening salvo he'd be under the sticks, no doubt. Couple of small errors but over all contribution was excellent. Stand out back three player.

13. Robbie Henshaw - 6

Thought he had a mixed game. Felt he defended well but was very poor in attack in terms of running and distribution. Is it just me or does he pass too early? He never draws the man - I wonder if he's played too much at 12 now he's not used to the position, seemed like he felt he just needed to pass as soon as he caught it. I would've liked to have seen him ask more questions of the defences in the outside channels, he has the pace and guile. Looked better when he slotted into the 12 channel for a few route one carries.

12. Bundee Aki - 8

Personally I thought he was excellent, if a bit rough around the edges. This is his what, 2nd cap? Outstanding performance. He looks like a seasoned pro at test level. He was our only positive attacker in terms of questioning defences IMO. His foot work, vision, and carrying threat meant the French were defending backwards against him. He gave away an avoidable penalty and he probably misread a few situations too, but I thought he was excellent all over. He'll get better. Wouldn't mind seeing him play 13 and move Henshaw back in at 12 though. Also faded a bit in the 2nd half... Which is understandable considering the situation.

11. Jacob Stockdale - 6

Seems people weren't happy with his performance but I thought he did okay. Carried well, was lively around the park, alert in defence... Got caught badly by Thomas but for me that was a system error rather than any one individual. The guy is a baby, in terms of age and caps. He'll grow into it.

10. Jesus Christ - 9

Our Lord and Saviour. Thought he had a brilliant performance through out the game, kicking from hand, passing, running, tackling. All there. Sexton may have missed a sitter but I reckon the people shouting 'choker' and other such comments have never taken an odd shaped ball onto a kicking T on a grass pitch and tried to launch it between two uprights at an angle 30 meters away. Kicking a rugby ball is not easy. Elite pro's average 75% kicks. Think about that. For me there's no such thing as sitters. Put Wilko infront of a goal at an angle and ask him to kick 100 balls through them I guarantee he'll miss some... Everyone misses one now and again, sure look at France missing their own sitter, unfortunately people (fans) will always use it as an excuse for losing a game. The only time I can genuinely remember a kicker's performance costing a team a win was Brock James for Clermont in Dublin. Because everything else was working for them and he kept missing. If you lose a game by a single kick or conversion it isn't your kickers fault - the team shouldn't be in that position and should be clear winners.

09. Conor Murray - 8

Conor had a lively game, reacted well and kept things well marshalled when we halted. Some of his kicking was sublime, that touch finder in the opening minutes was a peach. I always look at him as some young lad, but today he played like an old general, those last 40 phases or whatever just wouldn't have happened without him. You have to think of the conditions, at some point a scrumhalf is gonna throw a loopy or low pass as the ball slips in his hands. Not one ball struggled to get to its target. The pass to Sexton for the drop was on a string. The defence didn't get near Johnny.

08. CJ Stander - 6.5

Mixed game. Stander had some lovely touches in the tight in terms of ball transfer and protection. He attacked the wider channels well and made yards running at backs. My issue is he's well marshalled by forwards. He's one of the biggest guys on the park and struggles to get over the gain line, he doesn't look for soft shoulders either so he generally just finds walls. Has been in decline in the past 12 months - needs something to rejuvenate his game or at risk of losing his space when Ireland try out new options down under.

07. Josh VDF - 6

Wasn't on the park long enough to impress TBH. VDF is the kind of player you appreciate after an 80 minute graft when you realise how many carries, tackles, and rucks affected he had. Like another poster said, he's death by a thousand cuts. He'll be sorely missed in the squad if its ligament damage.

06. Peter O'Mahoney - 6

Fairly quiet game, as usual his work in the line out was excellent, but I was hoping he'd have more affect on the deck and win us a few penalties but he wasn't present there.

05. James Ryan - 7

Very, very impressive stint. Couple of shaky lineouts but his defensive work was outstanding and his ability to get over the gain line got us out of trouble a couple of times.

04. Ian Henderson - 7

Equally as good, his carry game stepped up another gear when we needed it. Unfortunately I think we missed Toner but Schmidt is right to experiment with a new lock partnership now.

03. Tadgh Furlong - 8

I still marvel at the work rate of Furlong. He's a fecking tighthead prop and he's popping up outside our 10 channel more than any other forward it feels like at times. He gets around the corner so quickly, and despite the fact he constantly looks like he's suffering from heart attack he still gets up and gets there. His carrying was a little dull today but he got the job done. Scrummaging was excellent, despite our scrum not being it's usual weapon the TH side seemed locked in.

02. Rory Best - 5.5

Decent darts, but fairly average across the pitch. Thought he was a bit quiet but did his best to disrupt ball on the ground.

01. Cian Healy - 6.5

Seemed to struggle a little against the French tight head but in open play he was very good. Great foot work, great hands. Seems to be reinventing his game. Long may it continue.

Subs:

16. Sean Cronin - 6

Good impact, as usual. Carried well and asked questions of the French defence when he came on. Reckon he'll be restricted to the bench for the championship, but no better impact sub.

17. Jack McGrath - 6

Decent carrying but scrumming seemed to be an improvement over Cian. Spoiled at LH right now.

18. John Ryan - 4

Badly minced by the French loosie for that scrum towards the end of the game. Luckily the French kicker missed.

19. Devin Toner - 5

Good impact when he came on, seemed to unbalance the scrum at first but his bulk makes a difference.

20. Dan Leavy - 8

Absolutely excellent when he came on. Can subs get MoTM? He deserved it! Was everywhere in defence but his attack play was unbelievable. Weirdly enough, if Leavy doesn't come on, I don't think we win that game - as in the 40 phases at the end, he played a massive part on getting us up the pitch.

21/22/23 McGrath/Carberry/McFadden - N/A

Match preview & thread: FRA vs IRE (Sat Feb 3, 1645)

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