Off Topic Thread 4.0

Once you've sat for the entirety of a mass once it's a lot easier every other time.

The only part I get involved with is to shake hands, otherwise I don't bother with the charade of standing, kneeling or blessing myself.

I will say that at weddings I try to sit at the back, it's a big day for the couple and I don't want to spoil any aspect of that. Similarly at a funeral, but I refuse to join in or give the appearance of joining in with the ceremony and I haven't had communion in 20 or so years. I'd encourage others to do the same if they feel the same, no one has ever challenged me on it and I think people need to start accepting that being obliged to attend a church does not oblige you to take part in the ritual choreography.

awec

Zzippy wrote: »

In fairness, I never said you were the only one. And I included myself in that club!

You all need to be more positive and happy like awec.

connemara man

Lads mass down the country is the best. The lads ( anyone single under 30 or over 65) all stand at the back of the church for 25 minutes and head outside after communion. Its the fellas with kids that have to do the whole rigmarole

Buer

connemara man wrote: »

Lads mass down the country is the best. The lads ( anyone single under 30 or over 65) all stand at the back of the church for 25 minutes and head outside after communion. Its the fellas with kids that have to do the whole rigmarole

Wait....no children, no wife and they're at mass on a Sunday morning?!

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

Wait....no children, no wife and they're at mass on a Sunday morning?!

Not enough broadband for Tinder.

connemara man

stephen_n wrote: »

Not enough broadband for Tinder.

That is sadly true!!

Ah its somewhere to chat thats not the pub for the Aul lads and the young lads have driven their grandparents

Zzippy

connemara man wrote: »

That is sadly true!!

Ah its somewhere to chat thats not the pub for the Aul lads and the young lads have driven their grandparents

It's not just the single lads. The in-laws local church, the oul lads stand at the back while the wives sit with kids/grandkids. The only time I've seen the father-in-law sit in church was at our wedding ...

connemara man

Zzippy wrote: »

It's not just the single lads. The in-laws local church, the oul lads stand at the back while the wives sit with kids/grandkids. The only time I've seen the father-in-law sit in church was at our wedding ...

Ah forgot about them, it does depend on the age though

Within weeks of concrete proof establishing that Russian hardware downed a passenger jet over Ukraine Trump has called for Russia to be readmitted to the G7 leaders summit.

I don't think it's collusion, I think it's 'fcuk liberals' and his base love it.

Sad state of affairs America has become, absolutely ripe for a competent despot.

mfceiling

So he's nearly in power for 2 years now.
Has Trump done a single thing which was good?
Genuine question.

Dubinusa

Tax cuts, my pay has gone up significantly. He also quashed the trade deal with Asian nations which would have cost jobs over here. Stemmed the flow of "refugees" from certain nations.
He may not be good for other nations but, for the working stuff over here he's been good.

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

Tax cuts, my pay has gone up significantly. He also quashed the trade deal with Asian nations which would have cost jobs over here. Stemmed the flow of "refugees" from certain nations.
He may not be good for other nations but, for the working stuff over here he's been good.

If he runs again will you vote for him?

Dubinusa

Maybe, depending on the disaster that is offered on healthcare. Since that abortion was passed my premiums are up 120%. It's nuts.

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

Maybe, depending on the disaster that is offered on healthcare. Since that abortion was passed my premiums are up 120%. It's nuts.

I'm not sure I know where to start or if I want to.

On a very basic level using just the things Trump has said himself, the countless ways he has held others to standards he has absolutely fallen eons short of himself and just basically observing him as a person, are you not overwhelmingly embarrassed to have him represent you internationally? Foreign policy is a primary responsibility of the executive after all.

Buer

Trump's core vote is simply solidified by the sneering. They circle the wagons and he continues to spew the rhetoric that they eat up. Foreign policy and personal values are going to be minor items for many voters, if they register on their radar whatsoever.

His opponents still don't seem to get this which I find bewildering. They're in danger of making the exact same mistake they made in the election. He speaks to a section of society and taps into their mentality. Dismissing these people as alt right, redneck or conservative tools is just going to strengthen their resolve. Trump's opponents need to learn to speak to these people not speak down to them.

People care about the money in their pockets. That's their top issue. They don't worry for the long term; the here and now is the pertinent period. Trump is hitting targets on these counts. The economy is improving and stock markets hit record highs. Taxes are down. That's what people care about.

If Trump somehow avoids any huge scandal between now and 2020 he has a relatively solid chance of a second term.

Dubinusa

He is a buffoon. No doubt. But George W Bush is a buffoon. Bill Clinton is a buffoon. They're all buffoons. Trump is a bigger buffoon.
I wouldn't vote for him based on his eloquence or his bluster.
Of course the base will vote for him. But his base is not traditional. His base is mostly about lower taxes, accessible healthcare and less handouts to all who buck the system. After all, politics is local? People vote with their wallet. Nobody that I know wants to be told what doctor to see or lose the coverage that they were happy with.
A lot of people like the fact that he is not them. You know, Bush: Clinton ,Kennedy Obama etc. The typical political party here is detested. IMO the 2 party system will be history in the near future. Plus, who wants Bono or Clooney or any other rich celebrity telling them what to do? The more they scream, the more the regular guy goes the other way.
Every group is catered to. LGBT, minorities. Atheists etc. Everyone but the guy working. That's it in a nutshell.
I will say, that in 1991 I worked security at Trump tower. I worked overnights and the few interactions I had with Trump were friendly and positive. He asked about my family and shook my hand every time I saw him.
Does that get my vote? No, I vote with my wallet and what's best for my family. Hillary Clinton was the worst possible candidate that could have been nominated by the Democrats. The Democrats need to find a candidate that can include and talk to the people that pay the taxes. Very simple, a likeable candidate with a little knowledge of reaching everyone.

Dubinusa

I'll also say that I hated the politicians in Ireland when I was there. I hated Haughey and Fitzgerald. I hated Paisley and Adam's.
Theresa May appears to be clueless, Blair was an idiot imo. So the retard political gene is not solely based in the U.S. I hope this helps. It's complicated and it's difficult put into words.
I have noticed that the more foreigners bash Trump or the U.S. the more popular he becomes.
The Republican establishment attacks him frequently and yet they are as hated as al Qaeda. The Republican party is most likely in serious trouble, which imo is a good thing.
Discussion of political ideas or politics in general is something I'm uncomfortable with. I hope I haven't offended anyone. I try to explain the atmosphere here now. Anyway apologies if anybody is offended.

irishbucsfan

What they have done, which took a long time and was a stroke of political genius, is completely taken over the media and they are selling the people propaganda packaged as news. Talk radio, Fox news, Sinclair affiliates, its absolutely everywhere. And they convince people that they have their best interests at heart. The facts don't matter if no one is illustrating them. America spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare. Britain spends ~9%. Yet most Americans have been led to believe the NHS is a hell hole and a disaster and incredibly expensive. That's the genius.

And then of course Citizen's Utd decision is a huge problem and it's not going away any time soon.

America is not going to return from that in our lifetimes, I'd imagine. I can only see it sliding further in that direction. It'll get far, far, worse and the people who will bear the cost are the working class people who have been convinced to vote for the millionaires. Which is extremely sad in many ways.

Squidgy Black

General American public couldn't care less about foreign policy and how the world views them from the outside.

Trump targets the working class, by promising more employment, and lower taxes for those who are working.

One thing about American society is due to the lack of social protection, you can go from a rosey life to being declared bankrupt and out on the streets in a matter of days. It instills this sort of survival instinct and a complete refusal of socialism among a large cohort of the population.

It's astonishing how I thought of America growing up, compared to how I view America now.

CatFromHue

Squidgy Black wrote: »

General American public couldn't care less about foreign policy and how the world views them from the outside.

In fairness does the general any country person care much about their country's foreign policy?

I have to say while Trump turns it up to 11 I don't think his way of operating is that different than many politicians in Ireland, or elsewhere.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness does the general any country person care much about their country's foreign policy?

I have to say while Trump turns it up to 11 I don't think his way of operating is that different than many politicians in Ireland, or elsewhere.

I read a good few international newspapers and to be honest if there was a lot of negative rhetoric directed at Ireland that was otherwise imperceptible to me it would probably make me challenge my world view a little bit. Foreign policy isn't just about what you choose to do out in the world, it is also about how you are perceived, recognised and accepted.

Squidgy Black

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness does the general any country person care much about their country's foreign policy?

I have to say while Trump turns it up to 11 I don't think his way of operating is that different than many politicians in Ireland, or elsewhere.

Most definitely yeah. Quite a lot of countries would be fairly ashamed by the way Trump has cast modern day America to the rest of the world if it was their country.

I think Irish politicians aren't great and most definitely are crooked and have their own agendas, but sweet jaysus the things that are coming out about Trump and his past and even how his campaign was conducted would put a combination of Bertie Ahern and Charlie Haughey to shame.

The Irish equivalent of Trump would be if Denis O'Brien got into office.

stephen_n

Dubinusa wrote: »

Tax cuts, my pay has gone up significantly. He also quashed the trade deal with Asian nations which would have cost jobs over here. Stemmed the flow of "refugees" from certain nations.
He may not be good for other nations but, for the working stuff over here he's been good.

Do you think there will be no repucusions for those actions? Fine in theory till the next time you go to buy electronics from Asia and they’ve shot up in price. Or for any American companies trading with or trying to export into those markets. Your tax cuts are leveraged on debt, an increase of 1.5 trillion in debt. Ultimately that money is being diverted from services, so more money to spend but at what cost?

Dubinusa

The media over here is a joke. Most pedal left wing kumbaya dogturds. I read the Irish indo and the Irish times daily. I dont watch any news or read any news over here. The most reliable and unbiased imo is the WSJ.
The politicians are lap dogs for the special interests, lobbyists and billionaires on both sides.
Term limits is the only option imo going forward, otherwise we are left with the scumbags in Congress that pollute the system now.
Congress has an approval % of about 13%. It's disgraceful.

stephen_n

The analogy I heard the other day was so apt, Trump is into the second season of his reality tv show and has to ramp up the rethoric to maintain his ratings. He basically has to keep doubling down, to try maintain interest in him. Sh!t will only get crazier as time goes on.

Dave_The_Sheep

stephen_n wrote: »

Sh!t will only get crazier as time goes on.

Sooner or later things have to end, they'll hit a wall eventuallly...

... poor choice of words.

irishbucsfan

CatFromHue wrote: »

I have to say while Trump turns it up to 11 I don't think his way of operating is that different than many politicians in Ireland, or elsewhere.

Completely different. Both in terms of his approach to the process as well as his policies and who he allows shape them.

stephen_n

CatFromHue wrote: »

In fairness does the general any country person care much about their country's foreign policy?

I have to say while Trump turns it up to 11 I don't think his way of operating is that different than many politicians in Ireland, or elsewhere.

The only politician remotely like Trump in how they operate is Boris Johnson and maybe chairman Kim, who is turning out to be remarkably less isolationist than the other two.

CatFromHue

The reason why I don't think he's that different is that he

1) has created one or two main populist points for him to argue. In the election it was migration, the inwards one, crooked Hilary and how the bad the incumbents were, and America wasn't getting a fair deal in the world. In an Irish context a lot of politicians ran on or ran on previously how bad water charges were, the problems in the health service, and how Europe was treating us. Neither Trump or the Irish politicians had any real answers to the problems they were highlighting but repeated them repeatedly.

2) how corrupt politics was and that they were going to fix it, I don't think I need to highlight this anymore.

The way he goes about things is a bit mad but that's why he said he's turned it up to 11, whereas other politicians operate at a 6 or so.

For what this means check out the below :pac:

I have to say I find a lot of similarities with Trump and the far left in Ireland, I'd imagine they'd operate very much the same as him if they were elected.