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2018-2027 National Development Plan

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Post on another forum by a former stalwart of here about a possible reconfiguration of the TEN-T core network in Ireland post-Brexit.

    The current network includes Dublin-Belfast/Cork/Limerick with further connections to the ports at Ringaskiddy and Foynes, both of which are getting motorways in the next few years.

    The reconfiguration of this core network would involved the removal of the Belfast requirement and the inclusion of Rosslare instead. The network would also be rerouted via the M7 + M20 instead of the M8 connecting Ringaskiddy and Foynes ports. There is also talk of routing the Cork element of the network around the proposed western North Ring Road quadrant and to the M28 via the M40 South Ring. The inclusion of Rosslare would also make there be a requirement to build the "N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare harbour" scheme as full motorway, and also a requirement to solve the issues between the M50 and Ashford that reduce level of service along the route.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    As the Dockland developments proceed in Cork and other projects such as the UCC / CIT Science Park, Eilton Dhopping Centre Redevelopment, City Gate 3 and the much vaunted Beamish Site go ahead, then a BRT line between Mahon and Ballincollig will be feasible. It should be built with future conversion to light rail in mind.

    City Centre - St Finbarrs Hospital - Douglas - Airport would be another future possible line.

    Re Docklands Development in Cork - Recent report in Irish Times that BAM, the lowest bidder have not started work. They say they made a mistake of 12 million euro in their calculations. They want the 12 mln euro restored in the contract price otherwise not proceeding. Heading for High COurt
    in July. Not good news for this project.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    nuac wrote: »
    Re Docklands Development in Cork - Recent report in Irish Times that BAM, the lowest bidder have not started work. They say they made a mistake of 12 million euro in their calculations. They want the 12 mln euro restored in the contract price otherwise not proceeding. Heading for High COurt
    in July. Not good news for this project.

    Had the contract being signed and executed by all parties or was BAM just preferred bidder ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What the bad weather the past few days has shown is how important the national motorway system is in terms of connecting the country. These weather events are likely to be more common, so we should be prepared with decent infrastructure that can weather any upcoming storms that keeps people and goods moving.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Had the contract being signed and executed by all parties or was BAM just preferred bidder ?

    I think the existence of a contract is disputed. Will be an interesting casee.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Generalised timetable for implementation of RLR projects in the NDP:

    Project|Latest completion date
    Grange Castle: Adamstown/Nangor Road improvements|2021
    Portlaoise Southern Distributor Road|2021
    Shannon Crossing at Killaloe|2021
    Laytown-Bettystown Link Road|2021
    Sligo Garavogue bridge|2021
    Dingle Relief Road Phase IV|2021
    Sligo Western Distributor Road|2021
    Coonagh-Knockalisheen|2021
    R498 Latteragh (Thurles-Nenagh)|2021
    Carrigaline Western Distributor Road|2021
    Killaloe Bypass + R494 upgrade|2022
    Athy Southern Distributor Road|2022


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Is there any route selected for the Carrigaline distributor road?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    Generalised timetable for implementation of RLR projects in the NDP:

    Project|Latest completion date
    Grange Castle: Adamstown/Nangor Road improvements|2021
    Portlaoise Southern Distributor Road|2021
    Shannon Crossing at Killaloe|2021
    Laytown-Bettystown Link Road|2021
    Sligo Garavogue bridge|2021
    Dingle Relief Road Phase IV|2021
    Sligo Western Distributor Road|2021
    Coonagh-Knockalisheen|2021
    R498 Latteragh (Thurles-Nenagh)|2021
    Carrigaline Western Distributor Road|2021
    Killaloe Bypass + R494 upgrade|2022
    Athy Southern Distributor Road|2022

    The fact nearly all of them are the same makes those dates seem dodgy.
    Grange Castle is under construction and should be done by spring 2019. Bettystown will start this time next year I believe and should be done in under a year, so end 2019 to finish.
    Phase 1 of Coonagh-KL is under construction and expected done by end 2018.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Is there any route selected for the Carrigaline distributor road?

    The land has been acquired and Cork County Council's 2017-2021 priority is "construction" so it must be. Can't find a map though.
    spacetweek wrote: »
    The fact nearly all of them are the same makes those dates seem dodgy.
    Grange Castle is under construction and should be done by spring 2019. Bettystown will start this time next year I believe and should be done in under a year, so end 2019 to finish.
    Phase 1 of Coonagh-KL is under construction and expected done by end 2018.

    That's the latest completion date, as per the table title. The date I have down for Coonagh-Knocklisheen is the Main Contract, not the stub under construction at the minute. The Main Contract was awaiting funding but was allocated the funding in the Review of the Capital Plan 2016-2022 and carried forward to the NDP.

    The implementation of the above projects is a matter for the relevant local authorities in conjunction with DTTaS so details can be sketchy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    What are the major schemes that are due to start construction this year and next?

    The only one I know of is the Dunkettle Interchange.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    markodaly wrote: »
    What are the major schemes that are due to start construction this year and next?

    The only one I know of is the Dunkettle Interchange.

    This year, N4 Collooney-Castlebaldwin and N52 Ardee bypass. Next year Dunkettle and potentially the Macroom-Ballyvourney scheme


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Why was site clearance done so early at Dunkettle. Is there archeological and other site investigations required before construction starts?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Why was site clearance done so early at Dunkettle. Is there archeological and other site investigations required before construction starts?

    Site clearance was done so that archaeological investigations could take place on the cleared areas. That work should be completed in full by mid 2018.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    In relation to the new National Development Plan, I've been meaning to post on the projects but haven't had a chance. This post will be rather concise and further upgrades will omit most of the information but just be updates on the scheme progress at that time. Many of the dates may be revised as funding envelopes change with the new plan. Here is the latest information as of 18 March. Corrections welcome.

    The schemes in the NDP have been broken up into two distinct categories. The first is the schemes which have been active for many years and are at various stages in the implementation process. All of these schemes are expected to be delivered by 2022/2023. Some are already under construction and some are only at the route selection stage. These schemes are fully funded. The other set of schemes are so called "pipeline" schemes, all of which were suspended during the recession and are only being reactivated now. I will post on these in due course:

    NDP active schemes:

    1. N2 Slane bypass
    Originally proposed in 1985, the 3rd incarnation of this scheme was refused planning by An Bord Pleanala in 2012. As a result, a new scheme was started from scratch in early 2017, with feasibility study passed in 2017. Route options were published in December 2017, with a preferred route being selected in Q2 2018. A submission to An Bord Pleanala is envisaged in early 2019. If approved, the scheme may start in 2021.

    2. N4 Collooney to Castlebaldwin
    This scheme, containing 13.7km of Type 2 DC and 1km of Type 1 SC was approved by An Bord Pleanala in 2014. The scheme includes a grade separated junction at Drumfin and a roundabout at Castlebaldwin. The project went to tender in November 2017 and DTTAS confirmed that the scheme will start in late 2018.

    3. N5 Westport to Turlough
    Planning permission for this scheme was granted in 2014, omitting a planned section of 2+2 retrofit east of Castlebar. The scheme will include 24km of Type 2 DC, 2km of Type 1 SC and includes a northern relief road for Westport. The scheme includes 3 grade separated junctions, with the existing N5 east of Castlebar and at the crossings of the N60 and N84 roads. Consulting engineer tender was issued in late 2016, with award to AECOM/ROD. The planned start of this scheme was early 2021 under the old Capital Plan but this may be accelerated to 2020.

    4. N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge
    This scheme is currently with An Bord Pleanala with a decision due on 09 July 2018. The scheme includes 34km of single carriageway between the eastern terminus of the Ballaghaderreen bypass and the 2005 N5 upgrade east of Strokestown. The scheme includes 3 roundabout junctions at Frenchpark (R361), at its intersection with the N61 near Elphin and at Strokestown (L1405). Scheme was submitted for planning in December 2017.

    5. N6 Galway City Ring Road
    This scheme is currently awaiting imminent submission to An Bord Pleanala, following Government approval of the scheme business case. The scheme is one of the 2 figurehead schemes in the NDP, with a cost of between 550 and 600 million. The scheme will be shovel ready in 2021 with implementation due by 2025. The scheme includes 11km of dual carriageway (Type 1) and 5.5km of Type 1 single carriageway. The scheme includes 2 tunnels, 1 viaduct at Menlo and 1 bridge over the River Corrib. The scheme includes junctions at the N6 near Doughiska, 2 separate junctions at Parkmore (1 with the N83 (west access only) and 1 at Parkmore Link Road (east access only), N84 Headford Road, N59 Link Road, Barnagh-Moycullen road and a roundabout west of Barna (R336).

    6. M7 Naas/Newbridge bypass upgrade scheme
    Work began on this scheme in late 2017 with widening of the mainline starting in January 2018. M7 widening is expected to be complete in mid-2019 with the remaining works to be complete by early 2020.

    7. N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange upgrade scheme
    Scheme was approved by An Bord Pleanala in 2013. A tender was issued in May 2017 with nine expressions of interest received, with five of these invited to submit to tender. Full work to begin in Q1 2019, with preliminary work underway. A tender award is expected in the first half of 2018. Scheme will take 3-4 years to complete in full due to the traffic management required on site.

    8. N11 Kilmacanogue improvements
    This scheme consists of Phase 1 of the programme of works devised as part of the M11/N11 Corridor Needs Study in 2017, and will consist of introducing one way parallel service roads at Kilmacanogue.

    9. M11/N30/N80 Gorey-Enniscorthy
    Work began in early 2016 as a PPP and is expected to open in 2019

    10. M20 Cork-Limerick
    This scheme was originally sent to An Bord Pleanala in 2011 and was approved after the inclusion of a junction for Buttevant. The scheme was then shelved due to the inability of Government to afford the CPO for the scheme, and the scheme was restarted from scratch in late 2016. The scheme will proceed to route selection and design in 2018, with the scheme expected to be delivered as part of the National Development Plan by 2027, at a cost of €850-900m. The scheme may include a Northern Ring Road of Cork if required.

    11. M21 Patrickswell-Rathkeale-Foynes
    Work began in 2013 on a "Foynes-Limerick Road Improvement Scheme" as part of the requirement to connect the Port of Shannon Foynes to the TEN-T Core Network by 2030. A route incorporating a bypass of Adare and Croagh was decided upon in 2015. The scheme includes 17km of motorway and 16km of protected single carriageway road with junctions at Adare, Croagh, Rathkeale, Askeaton and Foynes Port. A submission to An Bord Pleanala is due imminently.

    12. N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom
    Originally part of a 46km Ballyvourney-Ovens scheme, the Ovens-Macroom DC was dropped in 2011 with only the western section to proceed. The Macroom-Ballyvourney section was given approval by An Bord Pleanala in 2011. The scheme provides for 22km of dual carriageway with 3 grade separated junctions at the western tie in, Ballyvourney and Macroom (R582). The scheme is currently at the advance works stage with a PIN for tender released in late 2017. The scheme is expected to be tendered in 2018 with a firm Q1 2020 start date which is liable to acceleration if funding is available

    13. N25/N30 New Ross bypass
    Work began in 2016 on this scheme as a PPP and it is expected to open in full in Q1 2019. The scheme comprises of 14km of dual carriageway (4km of T1 and 10km of T2), a grade separated junction south of New Ross with the R733 road, and three roundabouts at the western & eastern N25 tie ins and the N30 tie in. The scheme involves a major bridge over the River Barrow.

    14. M28 Cork to Ringaskiddy
    This scheme has been in the pipeline for decades and has been prioritised due to the Port of Cork at Ringaskiddy achieving TEN-T Core status and the relocation of the main Cork Port activities from Tivoli to Ringaskiddy. The initial route selection work for this scheme took place in 2004 however it made little progress until 2014 when the TEN-T directive was published. The scheme was originally planned as Type 1 DC with 100km/h design speed however this will also now include motorway restrictions. The scheme includes several junctions, starting with a freeflow with the M40 at Bloomfield, a city facing junction at the R610, a full interchange at Carrs Hill with the old N28/R609, a city facing junction at Shannonpark (R611), a city facing junction at Shanbally, and roundabouts at Barnhely, Loughbeg and the Port at Ringaskiddy. The scheme includes 11km of motorway and 2km of protected single carriageway. The scheme was sent to An Bord Pleanala in May 2017 and a decision is expected in April 2018.

    15. N52 Ardee bypass
    This comparatively small scheme will begin in 2018 having been shovel ready for some time. The scheme includes 4.5km of Type 2 single carriageway beginning at the Louth/Meath border and ending on the N2 approx. 500m from the N33 roundabout. A tender is expected shortly for the €15m project.

    16. N56 Mountcharles to Inver
    The comparatively small N56 scheme was included in the 2016-2022 Capital Plan having been in planning for over 10 years. The scheme has been split into two chunks, the 2.9km Mountcharles-Drumbeigh section which will start in April 2018 and the 2.5km Drumbeigh-Inver section which will follow the first section. The project comprises 5km of Type 1 single carriageway

    17. N56 Dungloe to Glenties
    This scheme encompasses an upgrade of some of the poorest alignment of national road countrywide. The scheme is fully funded under the 2016-2022 plan and subsequent National Development Plan. The scheme is phased as follows:
    1. Cloghbolie to Boyoughter (3.3km): opened 2012
    2. Boyoughter to Kilkenny (4.95km): opened January 2017
    3. Kilkenny to Letterilly (3.6km): at construction, started Q1 2018
    4. Letterilly to Kilraine (R262) - does not bypass Glenties: to start 2019/20
    5. Dungloe to Cloghbolie: tbc
    Land acquisition is ongoing on the remaining two sections of the scheme.

    18. N59 Westport to Mulranny
    This scheme is another upgrade of low volume national secondary road, which comprises the upgrade of 21km of N59, 1.6km of which is offline. The scheme is being advanced in phases, with Knockbreaga (1.6km), Derrada (2013 opening) and Rossow Bends (2016 opening), complete. The Kilmeena section will go to construction in 2018 and the 4.7km Newport to Derrada section will follow after

    19. N59 Oughterard to Clifden
    This scheme is another LVNS scheme, comprising 46km of deficient national secondary road. The scheme was submitted for planning in two separate sections, 29km from Maam Cross to Clifden which was refused by An Bord Pleanala in 2016, and 17km from Maam Cross to Oughterard which was approved in 2013 conditional to agreement with the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS). Work will begin on a 6km section between Maam Cross and Bunnakill in 2019. A short 3.8km section east of Clifden at Derrylea was completed as a pilot scheme in 2010.

    20. N59 Moycullen bypass
    This scheme which originally started planning in the 1970s remains awaiting funding. It received An Bord Pleanala approval in 2012, with a minor element of the scheme comprising of the realignment of approx. 1km of the existing N59 east of Moycullen being completed in 2017. The 4.3km Type 1 single carriageway scheme remains ready to tender pending funding.

    21. N69 Listowel bypass
    This scheme comprises 7km of single carriageway, 3.8km of which is greenfield route. The scheme was approved by An Bord Pleanala in November 2017 after route selection being completed in 2011. The scheme includes 3 roundabouts and a new crossing of the River Feale. The scheme will go to CPO and advance works in 2018 pending construction.

    22. N72 Mallow Relief Road
    This scheme was originally abandoned in the mid-2000s due to the cost of land along the route but was reactivated as part of the 2016-2022 Capital Plan. The scheme passed 2 feasibility studies in 2016 and 2017 and is now at the route selection stage with route options published in late 2017. The scheme will enter design and planning in 2018 pending the selection of a route and funding allocation.

    23. N86 Tralee to Dingle
    This scheme, which is finally now underway, after a series of objections by An Taisce, is being delivered in phases.
    1. Phase 1: Annascaul to Gortbreagoge (4.2km) - opened 2012
    2. Phase 2: Camp to Ballygarret (1.3km) & Ballynasare to Lispole (2.7km) - under construction, due to open Summer 2018
    3. Remainder: Dingle to Lispole (10.7km), Ballynasare to Annascaul (4.7km), Gortbreagoge to Ballygarret (9.6km) & Camp-R560 (1.3km) - land acquistion stage, €4m allocation in 2018.


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Heartbreak Hank


    Thanks Marno; excellent stuff as always.

    Just had a couple of questions about 3 of the schemes that you might be able to answer (apologies if these should be in the separate threads).
    marno21 wrote: »
    3. N5 Westport to Turlough
    Planning permission for this scheme was granted in 2014, omitting a planned section of 2+2 retrofit east of Castlebar. The scheme will include 24km of Type 2 DC, 2km of Type 1 SC and includes a northern relief road for Westport. The scheme includes 3 grade separated junctions, with the existing N5 east of Castlebar and at the crossings of the N60 and N84 roads. Consulting engineer tender was issued in late 2016, with award to AECOM/ROD. The planned start of this scheme was early 2021 under the old Capital Plan but this may be accelerated to 2020.
    Why did ABP refuse the retrofit? Surely there would be a big safety improvement for not much extra cost?
    marno21 wrote: »
    4. N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge
    This scheme is currently with An Bord Pleanala with a decision due on 09 July 2018. The scheme includes 34km of single carriageway between the eastern terminus of the Ballaghaderreen bypass and the 2005 N5 upgrade east of Strokestown. The scheme includes 3 roundabout junctions at Frenchpark (R361), at its intersection with the N61 near Elphin and at Strokestown (L1405). Scheme was submitted for planning in December 2017.
    Why is this scheme being delivered as a single carriageway and not a 2+2? I know the AADT is low but I thought for the difference in land take/cost the payback in safety won out?
    marno21 wrote: »
    10. M20 Cork-Limerick
    This scheme was originally sent to An Bord Pleanala in 2011 and was approved after the inclusion of a junction for Buttevant. The scheme was then shelved due to the inability of Government to afford the CPO for the scheme, and the scheme was restarted from scratch in late 2016. The scheme will proceed to route selection and design in 2018, with the scheme expected to be delivered as part of the National Development Plan by 2027, at a cost of €850-900m. The scheme may include a Northern Ring Road of Cork if required.
    Was there a figure released on how much the CPOs would have cost in 2011?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Marno you should be working for TII!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    marno21 wrote: »
    Post on another forum by a former stalwart of here about a possible reconfiguration of the TEN-T core network in Ireland post-Brexit.

    The current network includes Dublin-Belfast/Cork/Limerick with further connections to the ports at Ringaskiddy and Foynes, both of which are getting motorways in the next few years.

    The reconfiguration of this core network would involved the removal of the Belfast requirement and the inclusion of Rosslare instead. The network would also be rerouted via the M7 + M20 instead of the M8 connecting Ringaskiddy and Foynes ports. There is also talk of routing the Cork element of the network around the proposed western North Ring Road quadrant and to the M28 via the M40 South Ring. The inclusion of Rosslare would also make there be a requirement to build the "N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare harbour" scheme as full motorway, and also a requirement to solve the issues between the M50 and Ashford that reduce level of service along the route.

    Why doesn't he or she post here now?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Thanks Marno; excellent stuff as always.

    Just had a couple of questions about 3 of the schemes that you might be able to answer (apologies if these should be in the separate threads).

    Why did ABP refuse the retrofit? Surely there would be a big safety improvement for not much extra cost?


    Why is this scheme being delivered as a single carriageway and not a 2+2? I know the AADT is low but I thought for the difference in land take/cost the payback in safety won out?


    Was there a figure released on how much the CPOs would have cost in 2011?

    1. ABP refused Castlebar-Turlough on the grounds that it had been recently upgraded with an offline WS2 in the 1990s and the current setup was fit for purpose in light of traffic volumes and no safety issues. It's bizarre alright that the section east of Castlebar that handles Castlebar + Westport traffic will be single carriageway and the Castlebar bypass with a traffic drop will be 2+2

    2. The difference in land take/cost example relates to WS2, which is approx 16m of pavement as opposed to the 13m of pavement of Type 1 SC which is proposed for the N5 section. This N5 scheme is also being built at grade which would necessitate grade seperation for all minor road crossings. The traffic volumes of 4-5k AADT also don't support the case for 2+2.

    3. I believe in the region of 150m, but am open to correction on this.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Why doesn't he or she post here now?
    Site banned before my time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    marno21 wrote: »

    2. The difference in land take/cost example relates to WS2, which is approx 16m of pavement as opposed to the 13m of pavement of Type 1 SC which is proposed for the N5 section. This N5 scheme is also being built at grade which would necessitate grade seperation for all minor road crossings. The traffic volumes of 4-5k AADT also don't support the case for 2+2.

    Is the highest possible quality a single carriageway route can be in Ireland (grade separation etc)? Or is there one where junctions can be grade separated all along the route too?


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    Is the highest possible quality a single carriageway route can be in Ireland (grade separation etc)? Or is there one where junctions can be grade separated all along the route too?

    I don't know the exact technical/legal answer but Type 1 Single Carriageway is now the highest standard single carriageway type after the old WS2 standard was removed.

    As a Type 1 Single Carriageway is designed for roads with an AADT < 11,600 and this would include future proofing, the need for total grade seperation isn't really there. If you are building a road that's busy enough to warrant grade seperation then a Type 2 DC or even Type 1 DC would be more appropriate.

    This particular section of N5 is only in requirement of a Type 2 Single Carriageway (3.5m lanes and no hard shoulders), but due to it being a national primary Roscommon CoCo have planned it as a Type 1, which has slightly wider lanes and hard shoulders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Last week i did a fair view kms driving to be precise it was 2300km up around the border county's.In this new plan i would hope some roads up there would get some attention i drove from dundalk to bailboro via carrickmacross and for such a small tight road i never seen so many trucks (not just dairy tankers) this road could do with some sort of an upgrade . I read somewhere talks of a national road between cavan and dundalk hopefully that would happen.

    While on the N3 between Cavan town and belturbet i reckoned it could easily be upgraded to Type 2 dual carriageway for minimal amount of funding with a good return in the form of safety.

    Finally i hope i dont upset anyone from the six counties but jesus the difference in roads between the north and south is like day and night! They may try and get some structural funds from brussels before the uk leaves the eu. I just couldnt believe how bad the roads where particuarly around Fermanagh


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Last week i did a fair view kms driving to be precise it was 2300km up around the border county's.In this new plan i would hope some roads up there would get some attention i drove from dundalk to bailboro via carrickmacross and for such a small tight road i never seen so many trucks (not just dairy tankers) this road could do with some sort of an upgrade . I read somewhere talks of a national road between cavan and dundalk hopefully that would happen.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056054186 - there was some discussion on it here but overall it seems to be parked up. Similarly there was a plan to realign the atrocious Ballynacarry bridge on the N53 - again it's been parked up.
    roadmaster wrote: »
    While on the N3 between Cavan town and belturbet i reckoned it could easily be upgraded to Type 2 dual carriageway for minimal amount of funding with a good return in the form of safety.

    I would agree with such a plan and hopefully some 2+2 retrofitting will be done in the 2020s. There is a plan for a Virginia bypass in the Capital Plan and hopefully after that the sections between Cavan and Kells may be dualled.
    roadmaster wrote: »
    Finally i hope i dont upset anyone from the six counties but jesus the difference in roads between the north and south is like day and night! They may try and get some structural funds from brussels before the uk leaves the eu. I just couldnt believe how bad the roads where particuarly around Fermanagh

    Even looking at major roads there is still no dual carriageway from Derry to either Belfast or Dublin, which says enough. The fact that back in the 1970s the Northern roads were better than Southern roads is a shocking indictment of how bad the RoI roads were as opposed to how good the NI roads were.

    Driving the M1 from Dublin and crossing the border it's how the A1 which is deficient in quality terms. It was only 15/20 years ago the A1 was world class and the southern N1 was a glorified boreen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster


    Is there a map of the proposed route the Virginia bypass might take?
    Which side of Lough Ramor for example?


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Is there a map of the proposed route the Virginia bypass might take?
    Which side of Lough Ramor for example?

    The 38km N3 North of Kells to Cavan scheme only got as far as feasibility study stage so likely has been abandoned.

    For the Virginia bypass, it'll likely start from scratch so that's a brand new route selection process. The Virginia bypass going ahead hasn't been 100% confirmed yet as it'll be appraised by TII for possible funding under the National Development Plan.

    In short, we don't know yet as the route hasn't been selected yet and won't be for a few years


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭Standard Toaster


    Perfect, thanks Marno


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    A few other tidbits:

    Three big schemes requiring planning above are to make big steps forward shortly. The M28 has a planning decision due this week, and the M21 and N6 Galway schemes are about to be sent to ABP imminently (we've been saying that for well over 6 months now though).


  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    marno21 wrote: »
    A few other tidbits:

    Three big schemes requiring planning above are to make big steps forward shortly. The M28 has a planning decision due this week, and the M21 and N6 Galway schemes are about to be sent to ABP imminently (we've been saying that for well over 6 months now though).
    Looking forward to the M28 decision, at long last. Can't understand why 16 km of road can take a year to get through planning. Also taking bets on when the Galway bypass will finally be sent to ABP - anyone favour this side of 2019? :D


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Looking forward to the M28 decision, at long last. Can't understand why 16 km of road can take a year to get through planning. Also taking bets on when the Galway bypass will finally be sent to ABP - anyone favour this side of 2019? :D

    It was to be shovel ready by 2021 according to Arup although that's surely slipped now - I can see a long legal battle with objections queuing up


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TII are currently in the process of allocating cash for the years 2018-2022 for the National Development Plan so we should get an updated overview of scheme progression in Q2 of this year.

    I'm liking the level of transparency and planning accompanying the NDP - all we need now is some implementation - and some additional staff to help with the volume of paperwork and reports required for these schemes.


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