2018-2027 National Development Plan

marno21

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What would be considered a complete network of motorways in Ireland?

Further to the post above, the NRA commissioned a fairly comprehensive National Secondary Road Needs Study in 2010 or so which meant that upgrading the NS network was definitely coming onto the agenda back then

The focus post the MIUs (M1/M6/M7/M8/M9) appeared to be finishing the M11 and the Atlantic Corridor. Access to the NW (N2/N4/N5 and the A5) appeared to be up the priority list too.

No major upgrades of the NS network made it into official schemes though.

It remains to be seen if a handful will be advanced in the next NDP. Peter Walsh of TII said there are 10 schemes of regional importance in addition to the 43 in the current NDP proposed in the new NDP. The N71 and N81 in particular would be fairly high up the list due to traffic volumes and the pathetic condition of the existing routes.

FGR

marno21 wrote: »

The focus post the MIUs (M1/M6/M7/M8/M9) appeared to be finishing the M11 and the Atlantic Corridor. Access to the NW (N2/N4/N5 and the A5) appeared to be up the priority list too.

One can dream of what an M25 would have been like. :pac: I have a feeling that with the serious push for the M24 to be prioritised over an M20 I don't think there will ever be a major upgrade to the Waterford-Midleton stretch of road in our lifetimes.

KrisW1001

There will not be an M24. The N24 upgrade is going to be 2+2 dual carriageway for its entire length, and will not operate under motorway rules.

There is no push for prioritising N24 over M/N20 either. They are separate projects that are going though the planning process at the same time. M20 is a much bigger and more expensive project than N24, so it's going to take longer to build.

N25 is actually in pretty good shape overall. Castlemartyr is the only town that desperately needs to be bypassed, and Killeagh is likely to be included in that work mainly because the two are only 6 km apart.

spacetweek

KrisW1001 wrote: »

There will not be an M24. The N24 upgrade is going to be 2+2 dual carriageway for its entire length, and will not operate under motorway rules.

Not sure about that, in the latest TII update on schemes they described the N24 from Cahir-Limerick Junction as "M24". The rest of the N24 schemes were "N24".

steeler j

KrisW1001 wrote: »

There will not be an M24. The N24 upgrade is going to be 2+2 dual carriageway for its entire length, and will not operate under motorway rules.

There is no push for prioritising N24 over M/N20 either. They are separate projects that are going though the planning process at the same time. M20 is a much bigger and more expensive project than N24, so it's going to take longer to build.

N25 is actually in pretty good shape overall. Castlemartyr is the only town that desperately needs to be bypassed, and Killeagh is likely to be included in that work mainly because the two are only 6 km apart.

The Cahir to Limerick junction is being done as a motorway ( why I don't know ) the combined length of the 2 schemes are between 85 to 90 km

Pete_Cavan

We can't say for certain what type of road will be built until it has gone through scoping and design. Regardless of what letter is used in the TII update doc, for all projects at an early stage it says something along the lines of "road cross section and design subject to further assessment".

Declaring road type now for a project still at selection and design stage is no more accurate than the people claiming a route option will destroy their house/village when the corridor is hundreds of metres wide and the road will only be on a fraction of that.

KrisW1001

It's far more likely that the description of Cahir-Limerick as a Motorway was a mistake on the document. Why I say this is that traffic levels for this section are barely 10,000 average daily vehicles. You don't even consider a motorway-standard road until you're over 25k AADT. The last 5-10 km into Limerick might hit those levels (even then, I doubt it, given the low population along the current N24), but in that case I still wouldn't expect blue signs - it may be like the N25 into Cork: Type 1 DC, but still an all-purpose road.

The N24 corridor could be used for development, but that should happen by developing the rail line first, before any change in zoning, so that new housing doesn't immediately clog the roads with cars every morning and evening.

steeler j

KrisW1001 wrote: »

It's far more likely that the description of Cahir-Limerick as a Motorway was a mistake on the document. Why I say this is that traffic levels for this section are barely 10,000 average daily vehicles. You don't even consider a motorway-standard road until you're over 25k AADT. The last 5-10 km into Limerick might hit those levels (even then, I doubt it, given the low population along the current N24), but in that case I still wouldn't expect blue signs - it may be like the N25 into Cork: Type 1 DC, but still an all-purpose road.

The N24 corridor could be used for development, but that should happen by developing the rail line first, before any change in zoning, so that new housing doesn't immediately clog the roads with cars every morning and evening.

I have asked twice about why it is a purposed motorway and was told each time that it is to do with time . They want to achieve a certain time that in a journey from Limerick to Waterford ,I think that reason isn't enough for me to do it as a motorway when u consider traffic numbers and the extra cost of building it

Shedite27

KrisW1001 wrote: »

It's far more likely that the description of Cahir-Limerick as a Motorway was a mistake on the document. Why I say this is that traffic levels for this section are barely 10,000 average daily vehicles. You don't even consider a motorway-standard road until you're over 25k AADT. The last 5-10 km into Limerick might hit those levels (even then, I doubt it, given the low population along the current N24), but in that case I still wouldn't expect blue signs - it may be like the N25 into Cork: Type 1 DC, but still an all-purpose road.

Motorwaying the Cahir-Limerick section would mean that becomes the Cork-Limerick road so the theory would be that would take a lot of the N20 traffic. I don't agree with that approach BTW.

From TI's perspective it would have the added benefit of building a motorway for some of the Limerick - Waterford route, not a big route on it's own but I believe it has some significance as it links ports at Foynes and Rosslare

jackrussel

Shedite27 wrote: »

Motorwaying the Cahir-Limerick section would mean that becomes the Cork-Limerick road so the theory would be that would take a lot of the N20 traffic. I don't agree with that approach BTW.

From TI's perspective it would have the added benefit of building a motorway for some of the Limerick - Waterford route, not a big route on it's own but I believe it has some significance as it links ports at Foynes and Rosslare

The cork-Limerick motorway isn’t going via Tipperary - how are people still forgetting this.

KrisW1001

@jackrussel - Shedite27 is, like you and me, saying that it won't happen. There's a lot of wishful thinking by the opponents of N20, and I think it’s their publicity over this that makes people think that it’s an actual proposal that was considered, but it isn’t.

I don’t see any realistic situation where N20 does not get upgraded at all, while N24 goes ahead. If N20 isn’t built completely as a motorway-standard road, it will be built as a mix of motorway-standard and 2+2.

I also agree with you in disagreeing ( ) that M8/M24 could take traffic from N20. N20 isn’t just the “Cork-Limerick Road”, it’s the “North County Cork Road”. It serves Mallow, Charleville and Buttevant on the main line, but also Kanturk and Newmarket via N72, R576 from Mallow. That's about 25,000 people for whom N24 is not an option.

Actually, building a motorway N24 west of Cahir while not building one north of Mallow makes no sense at all. Counting the catchment area for N24 west of Cahir using the same method, I get 12,000 people within range of that route (of that, Tipperary town is 5,000; Cahir itself, another 3500). If you’re relying on Cork-originated traffic to make the case for a motorway, then the project makes no sense, because N20 is the more direct route, and has the catchment to justify it.

For freight, the 2+2 road type is more than adequate, especially as this part of N24 will be very lightly trafficked. The Foynes access road will be 2+2, for example, and I’m very sure that when the N25 Wexford-Rosslare road is finalised, it will be of no higher standard than 2+2.

steeler j

The N24 corridor could be used for development, but that should happen by developing the rail line first, before any change in zoning, so that new housing doesn't immediately clog the roads with cars every morning and evening.

There is a purposed upgrade of the passenger line between Limerick junction and Waterford as well as a proposed freight terminal around the Limerick junction