2018-2027 National Development Plan

Reuben1210

Reuben1210 wrote: »

I'm interested in the M11/N11 provisions here. It is at a complete standstill past Greystones every morning by about 7:30.

It seems they have a plan for where the M11 ends at Bray north to Motorway with three lanes to Kilmacanogue, but in my opinion, the three lanes needs to go past Greystones at least, and the remainder of the non-motorway section from there to Coynes Cross to be upgraded to Motorway to finally have this gap upgraded.

Have you found any more specifics on this? Timeline/funding etc?

Any info on this @Marno, no?

marno21

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Any info on this @Marno, no?

Apologies, forgot to reply.

Based on the M11/N11 Corridor Study published last year, TII have decided to progress a major scheme to upgrade the M11/N11 from the M50 junction to Kilmacanogue and onto Coyne's Cross (J14). This will consist of a third lane to Kilmacanogue, junction upgrades, access closures and other general improvements.

This project has been added as a pipeline scheme and design should begin in 2018/2019. The project as a whole is unfunded but was named in the Capital Plan last Friday so should see some movement this year or next. This won't go to construction this side of 2021 and may possibly be phased.

In the meantime, TII hope to progress a minor scheme consisting of the addition of a parallel access road at the southbound petrol station in Kilmacanogue.

lucernarian

JupiterKid wrote: »

This is a very ambitious plan and one that I am delighted to see laid out. However, the M20 and N24 and N4 schemes should take absolute priority.

I really don’t see the need to upgrade the N52 between Tullamore and Kilbeggan. It is of a very good standard. The sections of N52 that really need improving are from Borrisokane to Birr and Delvin to Ardee.

Delvin to Ardee is shocking alright. I wonder how much traffic would avoid the M50 and M1 entirely if that road were to a better standard.

marno21

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Well from a personal point of view the N2, N4 and N17 are the three I'd use most frequently. Wouldn't be surprised if the N2 was put on the back burner until Brexit is sorted but the emphasis on Sligo in the plan will hopefully mean the N4 is prioritised

Also I see no mention of Tuam - Claremorris which was supposedly back on the table, has this been left out of the plan then?

No sign of Tuam-Claremorris. Firstly the heavy upgrading in recent years has pushed it down the list. Secondly, the local politician preferred to get a waste of time feasibility study into a not happening railway in the plan. Thirdly, the worse parts of the N17 from Knock to Sligo have been included.

The remaining stretch of **** road between Tuam and Ballindine is to be done in 2019/2020.

nuac wrote: »

As N5 Westport/Turlough is "fully funded", and as CPOs have been approved, why can it not be started before 2021?

Very busy road to an important tourist centre.
Also apart from America, the world's supply of Botox is exported along that road.

It's fully funded under the 2016-2022 plan, which had it down for a 2021 start. We haven't heard since if it's being accelerated but I can see it waiting til 2021 due to the lack of upfront funding, a lot of the funding in the plan is after 2021. Funding til 2021 is being used by the N4, N22, Dunkettle and M7 widening projects.

There are a lot of roads like that in Ireland that are totally subpar. Plenty of pharma and chemical companies located on boreens (Astellas in Kerry, Rowex in Bantry, Eli Lilly in Kinsale etc)

Reuben1210

marno21 wrote: »

Apologies, forgot to reply.

Based on the M11/N11 Corridor Study published last year, TII have decided to progress a major scheme to upgrade the M11/N11 from the M50 junction to Kilmacanogue and onto Coyne's Cross (J14). This will consist of a third lane to Kilmacanogue, junction upgrades, access closures and other general improvements.

This project has been added as a pipeline scheme and design should begin in 2018/2019. The project as a whole is unfunded but was named in the Capital Plan last Friday so should see some movement this year or next. This won't go to construction this side of 2021 and may possibly be phased.

In the meantime, TII hope to progress a minor scheme consisting of the addition of a parallel access road at the southbound petrol station in Kilmacanogue.

Cheers for that. This one directly affects me regularly and is way over capacity, and completely choked up every day!

Masala

Any link to the plan???

AugustusMinimus

Masala wrote: »

Any link to the plan???

http://www.gov.ie/en/project-ireland-2040/

roadmaster

lucernarian wrote: »

Delvin to Ardee is shocking alright. I wonder how much traffic would avoid the M50 and M1 entirely if that road were to a better standard.

Going by the amount of trucks i meet on that road i dont think a huge amount gp via M1/50

Redsoxfan

Marno - what's your best estimate for completion of full motorway/dual carriageway from M50 - > Sligo? ie the existing M/N4?

loyatemu

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Cheers for that. This one directly affects me regularly and is way over capacity, and completely choked up every day!

It's hard to see them building their way out of trouble on the N11. Closing the various minor junctions and redesignating to motorway is a good idea (should have been done long ago) but won't add any capacity.

Better public transport and P&R is needed out of Wicklow, but there's nothing serious about that in the plan - there's a mention of increasing P&R space at Greystones but there's limited scope for increasing the DART frequency due to the single line. Meanwhile buses on the N11 are sitting in heavy traffic every morning with no priority measures.

Reuben1210

loyatemu wrote: »

It's hard to see them building their way out of trouble on the N11. Closing the various minor junctions and redesignating to motorway is a good idea (should have been done long ago) but won't add any capacity.

Better public transport and P&R is needed out of Wicklow, but there's nothing serious about that in the plan - there's a mention of increasing P&R space at Greystones but there's limited scope for increasing the DART frequency due to the single line. Meanwhile buses on the N11 are sitting in heavy traffic every morning with no priority measures.

I agree...another option would be for a new section to be built from Bray north, and reconnecting south of glen of the downs, as in Spacetweeks idea on his site here:

http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/futures/m11.html

loyatemu

Reuben1210 wrote: »

I agree...another option would be for a new section to be built from Bray north, and reconnecting south of glen of the downs, as in Spacetweeks idea on his site here:

http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/futures/m11.html

That doesn't seem realistic, he's basically talking about going around the back of Glen of the Downs - it's very steep, and the Sugarloaf is in the way. There's a reason the N11 goes through GotD, it's the only low level route available.

marno21

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Marno - what's your best estimate for completion of full motorway/dual carriageway from M50 - > Sligo? ie the existing M/N4?

Even with the schemes in the Capital Plan, there will still be single carriageway between Castlebaldwin and north of Carrick on Shannon, and potentially between Rooskey and Longford.

Collooney-Castlebaldwin will be open by 2021.
Mullingar-Longford & Carrick-Dromod will be prioritised according to requirements - they won't be starting until 2022 at the absolute earliest - meaning 2025-2029 openings.

Charles Babbage

loyatemu wrote: »

It's hard to see them building their way out of trouble on the N11. Closing the various minor junctions and redesignating to motorway is a good idea (should have been done long ago) but won't add any capacity.

Better public transport and P&R is needed out of Wicklow, but there's nothing serious about that in the plan - there's a mention of increasing P&R space at Greystones but there's limited scope for increasing the DART frequency due to the single line. Meanwhile buses on the N11 are sitting in heavy traffic every morning with no priority measures.

An express ferry from Wicklow town to the Point Depot perhaps?

Redsoxfan

marno21 wrote:

Even with the schemes in the Capital Plan, there will still be single carriageway between Castlebaldwin and north of Carrick on Shannon, and potentially between Rooskey and Longford.

Aye, there is what, over 20km from Longford to Rooskey, all the references to 'Longford' in the meeja are making me nervous.

marno21

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Aye, there is what, over 20km from Longford to Rooskey, all the references to 'Longford' in the meeja are making me nervous.

The scheme was previously known as N4 Mullingar to Longford (Rooskey). I'd imagine they will do the last 10km to Roosky for the sake of it.

Mullingar-Longford is likely a shoe in to tie in with the N4 development near Sligo and the N5 schemes, which will increase traffic.

roadmaster

I think TII are following are discussions here . On my way to Cavan this morning i seen a major traffic management operation on the N3 Type 2 Section outside kells. There is resurfacing patch work going on where the road has gone to bits on both carriageways

Nidgeweasel

roadmaster wrote: »

I think TII are following are discussions here . On my way to Cavan this morning i seen a major traffic management operation on the N3 Type 2 Section outside kells. There is resurfacing patch work going on where the road has gone to bits on both carriageways

What is likely to happen that stretch of road from near the entrance to the M3 as far as Cavan? I.e Kells - Virginia - Cavan.

I found it adds a good bit onto the journey going to / from Donegal and Dublin. Belturbet - Cavan and kells - Dublin are fine.

roadmaster

In Marno's updates there is mention of a Virginia Bypass, whether that's a simple road just around the town or a road from the end of the Type two at whitegate to north of virginia i am not too sure

marno21

TII are planning a Virginia bypass, it's highly unlikely the big ticket N3 scheme will be done so it'll either be the part of this scheme either side of Virginia or else just a standard Virginia bypass.

Chris_5339762

Hows about a bit of decent thinking with a new tunnel through Bray Head to dual track to Greystones? It would cost money but its a commuter route so would be successful.

loyatemu

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Hows about a bit of decent thinking with a new tunnel through Bray Head to dual track to Greystones? It would cost money but its a commuter route so would be successful.

it's over 4km (as the crow flies) from the current tunnel entrance on the Greystones side, to where the line comes back inland in Bray - what would that cost!?

Chris_5339762

A lot. But if the country were to get serious about public transport thats the kind of decision we'd have to make. The fact that the commuter and intercity line to the south east of a city with 1 million people in it is in a single track tunnel for 4km is a bit ridiculous. Its a very obvious bottleneck.

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

TII are planning a Virginia bypass, it's highly unlikely the big ticket N3 scheme will be done so it'll either be the part of this scheme either side of Virginia or else just a standard Virginia bypass.

All indications are that it will be a fairly small scale scheme.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

A lot. But if the country were to get serious about public transport thats the kind of decision we'd have to make. The fact that the commuter and intercity line to the south east of a city with 1 million people in it is in a single track tunnel for 4km is a bit ridiculous. Its a very obvious bottleneck.

Agreed - money shouldn't be so much of an issue, it's surprising it wasn't even mentioned in the new plan.

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

All indications are that it will be a fairly small scale scheme.

Certainly so, it'll just be a few km of a scheme. What I was saying is it's unclear yet whether it'll be

A. The stretch of the planned N3 Kells-Cavan scheme around Virginia, just the section around Virginia now

or

B. A short Virginia bypass with no future upgrade as part of a larger scheme in mind.

The rest of the Cavan-Kells dualling certainly won't happen with this plan.

blanch152

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

A lot. But if the country were to get serious about public transport thats the kind of decision we'd have to make. The fact that the commuter and intercity line to the south east of a city with 1 million people in it is in a single track tunnel for 4km is a bit ridiculous. Its a very obvious bottleneck.

Compared to the benefit from DART Underground, it is small fish.

A new tunnel from Bray to Greystones wouldn't feature on any top-40 public transport initiatives. RE-routing around Bray Head would have a better chance, but not much.

spacetweek

You'd probably be better double tracking further south and using signalling cleverly on the Bray Head section.

Middle Man

spacetweek wrote: »

You'd probably be better double tracking further south and using signalling cleverly on the Bray Head section.

Or a passing loop halfway - perhaps with today's building technology, that might be achieved using some of the very original alignment around Bray Head (abandoned tunnels with missing bridge sections).

lucernarian

Middle Man wrote: »

Or a passing loop halfway - perhaps with today's building technology, that might be achieved using some of the very original alignment around Bray Head (abandoned tunnels with missing bridge sections).

Doing that would require the clever signalling in the first place, but either way it's a win-win. I thought the Bray to Bray head section could handle 2 tracks as it was originally built in the 19th century as double track.

loyatemu

lucernarian wrote: »

Doing that would require the clever signalling in the first place, but either way it's a win-win. I thought the Bray to Bray head section could handle 2 tracks as it was originally built in the 19th century as double track.

nope - it was always single track. It's been moved inland several times but that's because the outer bits had collapsed. I really don't think there's space for a passing loop but it could probably be double-tracked on the Greystones side of the main tunnel which might allow a slightly better frequency.

Currently it's signalled as 2 sections, so one train can follow another in the same direction - the easiest/cheapest way to increase capacity would be to stable a train in Greystones overnight so that an extra peak service could run inbound in the morning.