Should Irish be made optional at schools.

wheresmahbombs

I think it should be optional.
Not everybody's going to enjoy the language, regardless of the fact that it's cemented in our culture. I understand the importance of having an open mind towards different subjects/topics, but making a student doing a subject they dislike against their will is just going to make things worse.

The problem surrounding the language's mandatory status is amplified further by a teaching method that is absolutely horrible.

Skyfloater

daheff wrote: »

thats because of snobbishness and not wanting their darling kids to go to school with children from Eastern Europe/ Africa......not because mummy & daddy have such a love of Irish.

It's more the fact that you don't get the special needs kids in the Gaelscoils.

Hotblack Desiato

They've had to stop giving Irish homework in my kids' primary school - because so many of the (Irish) parents can't help their kids with it.

holyhead

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

As I've said before, a nation consist of millions of people: you don't get to say what each and every person sees as part of their "identity".

It appears to be very much of your personal identity though, may I ask why you don't consider learning it now?

I'm merely giving my opinion. Make no apologies for it either

It is a beautiful language which is unique to our country. It is my bad that I have never taken the trouble to get reacquainted with it.

Garzard

wheresmahbombs wrote: »

I think it should be optional.
Not everybody's going to enjoy the language, regardless of the fact that it's cemented in our culture. I understand the importance of having an open mind towards different subjects/topics, but making a student doing a subject they dislike against their will is just going to make things worse.

The problem surrounding the language's mandatory status is amplified further by a teaching method that is absolutely horrible.

You could argue it's taught woefully - I'd wholeheartedly agree, though me personally, I simply never had any desire to learn Irish from my first day of school all that time back in 1997. Caused me to feel nothing but contempt for the subject all throughout the 14 years, albeit not towards the language per se. Our schools still leave a lot to be desired insofar as flexibility around subjects.

wheresmahbombs

Garzard wrote: »

Our schools still leave a lot to be desired insofar as flexibility around subjects.

They really do.

amtc

It already is optional.

I was born on April 5 1973 and have a copy of the Irish Times from that day....headline is compulsory Irish dropped.

amtc

However still required for nui

Oranage2

I went to an Irish, I still can speak it fairly decently, I'd also prefer my future children to go to an Irish school and learn Irish.

But I agree that it shouldn't be compulsory to have Irish to go to national universities. I also think it should be taught differently, in most cases, people leave secondary school and can say a sentence or two in Irish.

Fred Swanson

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cycle4fun

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Things will change. There was a time contraception was not available in Ireland, not that long ago. The old fashioned backward Gaelic Ireland is changing and will change fully.

aivilo

daheff wrote: »

thats because of snobbishness and not wanting their darling kids to go to school with children from Eastern Europe/ Africa......not because mummy & daddy have such a love of Irish.

What a pathetic ignorant comment . Mine go because I want them to learn their beautiful language and they are thriving at it . There are kids from Italy and Poland in the school too . Their parents recognize the benefits of learning different languages early .
My kids mix every day with kids from Eastern Europe and India on my estate and they all play together nicely
They don’t see Any difference ...You obviously do

aivilo

Skyfloater wrote: »

It's more the fact that you don't get the special needs kids in the Gaelscoils.

NOT true. Disgusting comment

A Little Pony

Oranage2 wrote: »

I went to an Irish, I still can speak it fairly decently, I'd also prefer my future children to go to an Irish school and learn Irish.

But I agree that it shouldn't be compulsory to have Irish to go to national universities. I also think it should be taught differently, in most cases, people leave secondary school and can say a sentence or two in Irish.

That is because it's not relevant in the world today. Most Irish people speak English, English is important in the world of commerce. Why don't people just say it's a cultural and heritage reason for why people want others to learn the language.

Skyfloater

aivilo wrote: »

NOT true. Disgusting comment

Is true, Fact.


Could do this all night

SusieBlue

Skyfloater wrote: »

Is true, Fact.


Could do this all night

I went to a Gaelscoil in the 90's, there were 2 autistic children in my class (who were amongst the first in the country to get SNA's), one who was severely so, to the point that he didn't go to a mainstream secondary school.

I have relatives who have kids still in that same school and it has one of the best special needs departments in the whole county.

There are also many children of other denominations and nationalities, specifically there are quite a lot of children from Nigeria.
I will admit that there were no non-Irish children when I went there in the 90's, with the exception of one French family.
However I feel levels of immigration to Ireland at that time reflects that.

So yeah, you're wrong.

Skyfloater

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I went to a Gaelscoil in the 90's, there were 2 autistic children in my class (who were amongst the first in the country to get SNA's), one who was severely so, to the point that he didn't go to a mainstream secondary school.

I have relatives who have kids still in that same school and it has one of the best special needs departments in the whole county.

There are also many children of other denominations and nationalities, specifically there are quite a lot of children from Nigeria.
I will admit that there were no non-Irish children when I went there in the 90's, with the exception of one French family.
However I feel levels of immigration to Ireland at that time reflects that.

So yeah, you're wrong.

Kudos to your school for being the exception. But, if you have a special needs child, you are not going to add another formidable barrier to their already difficult passage through the education system.

trellheim

Why are the poll results hidden ?

wheresmahbombs

Maybe they are hidden to avoid people from bandwagoning on one side, and instead getting them to think critically.

aivilo

Skyfloater wrote: »

Kudos to your school for being the exception. But, if you have a special needs child, you are not going to add another formidable barrier to their already difficult passage through the education system.

Really? There are special needs kids in every year in my kids Gael Scoil. Guess their parents aren’t willing to write them off as quickly as you are.

Billy86

astrofool wrote: »

Irish is the only compulsory subject on the curriculum, and really only because the NUI have it as a requirement, if the NUI didn't require, a lot of kids would drop it like a hot potato, even though "technically" they wouldn't pass their leaving certificate without it. Foreign students applying to NUI don't have to have it, mature students don't need it, BAC Laureate students (including Irish students) don't need it, only Irish public school students need it for application to NUI education.

I actually did my leaving cert without doing Irish (dyspraxia made even the one additional language hard enough), but it certainly did eliminate a lot of college options off the CSO.

I'm not sure on the 'technically didn't pass' bit though, since I've had it verified only recently for a permanent residency application. Mind you if you can back provide a link or something up I'd really appreciate it, would be a funny bit of trivia to have on myself!

Noveight

Skyfloater wrote: »

Kudos to your school for being the exception. But, if you have a special needs child, you are not going to add another formidable barrier to their already difficult passage through the education system.

There were children with special needs in the Gaelscoil I spent some time working in. Might have had something to do with the fact that their older siblings also attended the school.

Hotblack Desiato

Great anecdotes guys. How about some stats on special needs kids going to gaelscoils?

Fred Swanson

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Billy86

Cheers for that... I won't lie, I'm kind of disappointed now I know my LC is legit.

Silver Sol

I finished Secondary school 4 years ago. The only appealing thing about Irish was my Irish teacher. God bless, she was a pure cailin and was probably the only reason I sometimes paid attention. I actually felt guilty when I hadn't work done for her.

Regardless, the way Irish is taught in schools is fairly roundabout and confusing. There's more emphasis on grammar, than actually using that grammar effectively. Let's be real here, no one is gonna recite a verse of Geibheann off the top of their heads because it was appealing, or tell a story displayed through pictures because they loved it.

Should Irish be optional? It depends. Were it deferred to an optional choice of subjects instead of compulsory, Irish in schools would be dead within the year because the way it's being taught is a drain on people.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Great anecdotes guys. How about some stats on special needs kids going to gaelscoils?

You are suddenly against anecdotes? Jesus. How about getting over that amazingly resilient chip on your shoulder against all things Irish and giving "stats" to support your claim?

You could always move back to Britain if it's so hard for you to even tolerate Irish culture in Ireland.

Mod-Banned

Hotblack Desiato

Deleted User wrote: »

You are suddenly against anecdotes? Jesus. How about getting over that amazingly resilient chip on your shoulder against all things Irish and giving "stats" to support your claim?

You could always move back to Britain if it's so hard for you to even tolerate Irish culture in Ireland.

I have only lived in Ireland all my life.

As usual you go straight to personal abuse.

I didn't say anything about 'tolerating Irish culture'.

Your posts are a great example of the sort of belittling attitude which puts people off the Irish language.

sryanbruen

What even is this discussion anymore? Genie mac, people can barely have a nice discussion without abuse or some sort of drama.

Hotblack Desiato

It wasn't my claim about whether gaelscoils do or do not take in their fair share of special needs kids. But here's an interesting article from 2012:

'To see real educational apartheid, look no farther than your local Gaelscoil'

Anonymous Parent wrote:

Irish language schools are getting away with worse levels of educational apartheid than any private schools. These schools may purport to welcome children of all nationalities, classes and intellectual abilities but the language throws up a natural forcefield that deflects students from various constituencies.

Living as I do in a middle-class area of south Dublin, I know many parents who have opted to send their children to Gaelscoileanna. Not one of these parents is a Gaelgoir – all complain that they are not equipped to help their children with homework or even to engage in the mildest level of Irish conversation at home.

There is no gra for the language here – these parents are choosing these schools because their children will be educated among Irish citizens from well-to-do backgrounds. These are well-informed people with the cop-on to get their child’s name on a list at birth. They have the comfort of knowing that their child will not have to muck in with students whose second language is English, with Travellers or with others who would simply never consider a Gaelscoil for a slew of socioeconomic reasons.

This exclusivity is naturally reproduced into second-level Gaelcolaisti, which tend to give first preference to children from the Gaelscoil sector.

As for special education, I’m willing to bet that, if anyone cared to review the situation, there are fewer children with special needs in Irish- language schools than in others. Socio- economic profiling would account for this in the large part, but there’s more to it. Why are children with learning disabilities in English- language schools entitled to apply for an exemption from Irish? Because it’s very hard to learn if you have dyslexia or other learning disabilities. Another natural barrier at the gate of the Gaelscoil.

(sorry but Boards is deleting all characters with fadas, I had to replace them with plain letters)