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Should Irish be made optional at schools.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 41 aivilo


    My two daughters go to a gaelscoil and they love it . 8 year old is fluent already and 5 year old is flying. I love hearing them chatting in Irish

    I hated Irish in school but now wish I could speak it and have had lessons which I really enjoyed as it was taught in a fun way.

    In an ideal world all schools in the country would teach Irish like the gaelscoils do and the laungage would thrive.

    I’ll never understand why so many want to just throw it away


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    Mutant z wrote: »
    I think the time has come to make Irish a choice subject as opposed to the compulsory one it currently is whats the point in teaching it when many students are leaving school with barely 2 words of Irish the whole thing seems a complete waste of time. Whats the point putting so much money into a subject which has little relevance to everyday life it would be better spent on PE after all health and fitness is a much bigger part of everyday life than a language which is only spoken in tiny pockets of this country. Why are so few people fluent in speaking Irish despite being taught it at school clearly something isnt working make it optional so that those who want to learn it can and those who dont can opt out of doing it, that i believe is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
    It should be abolished
    If people want to learn a dead useless language they should have to do it on their own time and pay private tutors


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,447 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Can you get into university without English and maths?

    Depends on the course, Arts (and other courses) in UCD don't require Math's:
    http://www.ucd.ie/registry/admissions/er.html

    UCC is similar. Irish is a requirement even though the vast majority of the courses won't use one iota, syllable or consonant of Irish during the course.

    English is the only constant requirement at university, even though it's not required for the Leaving Certificate (only Irish is: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/state_examinations/established_leaving_certificate.html)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    aivilo wrote: »

    I’ll never understand why so many want to just throw it away
    For the same reason we throw anything else out that is past its use before date.


  • Registered Users Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    I think all languages should be optional for leaving cert.

    Our school had French and German in 1st year and for 2nd to 3rd year it was pick one for the junior cert, was the same for 4th - 6th year.

    Not once have I used any French that I learned for 6 years since I left school.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    When it's abolished as a compulsory subject, it may well be out of necessity than out of choice. We're rapidly reaching a point where we just don't have enough Irish teachers:
    Shortages of teachers are most acute in subjects such as Irish, maths, European languages and science.

    A report compiled by the Education and Training Board Ireland found that just one of four Irish teachers at one of its secondary schools was qualified to teach Irish.

    ...

    One principal said: “Why is Irish a compulsory subject when it is almost impossible to find a substitute teacher for this subject?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Mutant z wrote: »
    I think the time has come to make Irish a choice subject as opposed to the compulsory one it currently is whats the point in teaching it when many students are leaving school with barely 2 words of Irish the whole thing seems a complete waste of time. Whats the point putting so much money into a subject which has little relevance to everyday life it would be better spent on PE after all health and fitness is a much bigger part of everyday life than a language which is only spoken in tiny pockets of this country. Why are so few people fluent in speaking Irish despite being taught it at school clearly something isnt working make it optional so that those who want to learn it can and those who dont can opt out of doing it, that i believe is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

    Maths should be optional too then. Leaving cert algebra has been as useless or even more useless than my irish education after I left school

    All other subjects I felt helped me in some ways later in life, english biology geography art and german

    Maths and Irish were most useless. Basic levels of maths is obviously very important but the leaving cert ****e imaginary numbers and algebra and all that was completely useless unless you went into a course or profession that was specifically about maths and physics


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,447 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Maths should be optional too then. Leaving cert algebra has been as useless or even more useless than my irish education after I left school

    All other subjects I felt helped me in some ways later in life, english biology geography art and german

    Maths and Irish were most useless. Basic levels of maths is obviously very important but the leaving cert ****e imaginary numbers and algebra and all that was completely useless unless you went into a course or profession that was specifically about maths and physics

    Maths is optional! Of course the schools encourage all pupils to take Maths so they keep their options open for further education, the student can exercise their right not to take it.

    Ordinary level Maths is simple and avoids most of the more abstract concepts, and a monkey can do foundation level (literally). Of course most future jobs will require a decent level of Maths (or you can subsist on the basic wage that will happen at some point).


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Why do people create polls like this and hide the results?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Mutant z wrote: »
    I think the time has come to make Irish a choice subject as opposed to the compulsory one it currently is whats the point in teaching it when many students are leaving school with barely 2 words of Irish the whole thing seems a complete waste of time. Whats the point putting so much money into a subject which has little relevance to everyday life it would be better spent on PE after all health and fitness is a much bigger part of everyday life than a language which is only spoken in tiny pockets of this country. Why are so few people fluent in speaking Irish despite being taught it at school clearly something isnt working make it optional so that those who want to learn it can and those who dont can opt out of doing it, that i believe is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.

    Maths should be optional too then. Leaving cert algebra has been as useless or even more useless than my irish education after I left school

    All other subjects I felt helped me in some ways later in life, english biology geography art and german

    Maths and Irish were most useless. Basic levels of maths is obviously very important but the leaving cert ****e imaginary numbers and algebra and all that was completely useless unless you went into a course or profession that was specifically about maths and physics
    Without Maths you couldn't even post here
    Maths is the necessary component for all computer programming
    Irish on the other hand is the necessary component of all chocolate teapots


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,703 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Why is language the be-all and end-all?

    Other aspects of our culture, i.e. games or traditional music, aren't compulsory in schools and yet they thrive.
    People spend hard earned money and devote time to learn how to play music or go out of their way to participate in or attend matches.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    If Irish was taught the way its taught in Gaelscoils there wouldn't be half as many problems in how kids learn.

    In Gaelscoils, when they start Junior Infants, the kids will speak mostly English and the teacher speaks only Irish.
    The children won't have the capacity to reply to the teacher in Irish, and they may not even understand everything the teacher is saying.
    A big thing I saw is that if the child doesn't understand, rather than just say it in English, the teacher will gesture or show a picture of what they're trying to say until the kid understands.
    My goddaughter goes to one, and knew only the odd word when she starterd - cota, mála, etc.
    Before long she was speaking in English with the odd Irish word thrown in, eg "Where's my bosca lón?". Within another few months, the kids were able to mostly able to understand what the teacher was saying, and able to reply using a mixture of English and Irish.
    There was no sitting down with textbooks learning verbs or anything like that. The more they learned, the less they used English, and the more they used Irish.
    I myself went to a gaelscoil and was fluent at age 9 (roughly). There was no pressure. There was no learning stuff I didn't understand off by heart.

    Its an extremely natural, pressure free way of learning and is far more fun than to be sitting there with the head in the books trying to make sense of it all. Its also how children in immersion schools in Europe learn.

    Rather than trying to rattle off poems from 80 years ago and trying to make sense of Peig Sayers, kids should be learning organically. There would be far more interest in the language if it wasn't taught so appallingly.

    As you can tell, I'm very passionate about the language and would hate to see it become optional. However, I can recognise that the current system isn't working at all, and the students are suffering for it. I would be in favour of a complete overhaul rather than getting rid of it completely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    baylah17 wrote: »
    Without Maths you couldn't even post here
    Maths is the necessary component for all computer programming
    Irish on the other hand is the necessary component of all chocolate teapots

    Well I suffered through maths my whole life and knew from about 13 Id never want to be in a profession that was in any way associated with maths. It should be optional after basic proficiency is achieved, from junior cert onwards ,those who like maths can do it and go onto professors where their maths skills contribute to society. For those of us who's maths skills would never contribute to society, how about make it optional and we can contribute in other ways with other types of skills


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    wakka12 wrote: »
    baylah17 wrote: »
    Without Maths you couldn't even post here
    Maths is the necessary component for all computer programming
    Irish on the other hand is the necessary component of all chocolate teapots

    Well I suffered through maths my whole life and knew from about 13 Id never want to be in a profession that was in any way associated with maths. It should be optional after basic proficiency is achieved, from junior cert onwards ,those who like maths can do it and go onto professors where their maths skills contribute to society. For those of us who's maths skills would never contribute to society, how about make it optional and we can contribute in other ways with other types of skills
    It is optional


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    baylah17 wrote: »
    It is optional

    What? It has been compulsory in the three schools I attended anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    In order to get into 3rd level institutions maths is compulsory.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    wakka12 wrote: »
    baylah17 wrote: »
    Without Maths you couldn't even post here
    Maths is the necessary component for all computer programming
    Irish on the other hand is the necessary component of all chocolate teapots

    Well I suffered through maths my whole life and knew from about 13 Id never want to be in a profession that was in any way associated with maths. It should be optional after basic proficiency is achieved, from junior cert onwards ,those who like maths can do it and go onto professors where their maths skills contribute to society. For those of us who's maths skills would never contribute to society, how about make it optional and we can contribute in other ways with other types of skills
    It is optional
    Your missing the point
    It's dead
    Has no use
    It is worthless as an acedemic subject
    At best it is a hobby and should be treated as such by schools


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    wakka12 wrote: »
    baylah17 wrote: »
    Without Maths you couldn't even post here
    Maths is the necessary component for all computer programming
    Irish on the other hand is the necessary component of all chocolate teapots

    Well I suffered through maths my whole life and knew from about 13 Id never want to be in a profession that was in any way associated with maths. It should be optional after basic proficiency is achieved, from junior cert onwards ,those who like maths can do it and go onto professors where their maths skills contribute to society. For those of us who's maths skills would never contribute to society, how about make it optional and we can contribute in other ways with other types of skills
    It is optional
    Your missing the point
    It's dead
    Has no use
    It is worthless as an acedemic subject
    At best it is a hobby and should be treated as such by schools
    Eh no
    I have an Honours degree and a masters and I don't have Irish and never passed a state exam in it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    wakka12 wrote: »
    baylah17 wrote: »
    Without Maths you couldn't even post here
    Maths is the necessary component for all computer programming
    Irish on the other hand is the necessary component of all chocolate teapots

    Well I suffered through maths my whole life and knew from about 13 Id never want to be in a profession that was in any way associated with maths. It should be optional after basic proficiency is achieved, from junior cert onwards ,those who like maths can do it and go onto professors where their maths skills contribute to society. For those of us who's maths skills would never contribute to society, how about make it optional and we can contribute in other ways with other types of skills
    It is optional
    Your missing the point
    It's dead
    Has no use
    It is worthless as an acedemic subject
    At best it is a hobby and should be treated as such by schools
    Eh no
    I have an Honours degree and a masters and I don't have Irish and never passed a state exam in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,447 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    In order to get into 3rd level institutions maths is compulsory.

    No it's not, I literally gave the link above showing that it's not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,447 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    If Irish was taught the way its taught in Gaelscoils there wouldn't be half as many problems in how kids learn.

    Why would I want my kids to go to Gael Scoil to speak a language that nobody uses? There's more argument to go to a French or German speaking school if language is required.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    astrofool wrote: »
    Why would I want my kids to go to Gael Scoil to speak a language that nobody uses? There's more argument to go to a French or German speaking school if language is required.

    I'm not talking about the pros and cons of being able to speak Irish. If you have no interest in the language yourself then why would you encourage your child to learn it?

    I'm simply stating that how Irish is taught in Gaelscoils is a far superior, more natural way of learning as opposed to how its taught in English speaking schools. I'm not saying we should all send our kids to Gaelscoils, by any means.
    Just that the different method of teaching makes learning easier.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I completely agree with you, particularly the bolded. I would never be in favour of taking someone's choice away from them, in any aspect of life.

    I do think that the level at which European languages are taught aren't great here either, and could definitely be improved upon.

    I suppose, if it came down to it, my preference would be an overhaul of the system for say 5 years, to see if levels of fluency and engagement increase.
    I would also like to see the introduction of European languages being taught in a similar natural method from Junior Infants onwards.

    What I'm getting at is that I don't think that book learning about poems and verbs is a good way to learn ANY language. And this needs to be addressed and improved upon across the board (at primary level at least).

    However I do recognise that a lot of people would prefer to opt out of the language completely, so I would make it optional for secondary school, and possibly remove it as an exam subject completely.

    For those opting in, I think a re-evaluation of how its taught needs to happen. Because the current system isn't working at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 aivilo


    astrofool wrote: »
    Why would I want my kids to go to Gael Scoil to speak a language that nobody uses? There's more argument to go to a French or German speaking school if language is required.

    I didn’t say they had to go to a Gael scoil I said the way they teach it should be similar
    Lots use it . My daughters use it . I use the few words I have


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    No they just need to think of a better way of teaching it to kids and making it more attractive to want to learn. Because my Irish teacher couldn't give a bollocks about whether or not we passed.

    It's an important part of our heritage. I'm happy when I see English and Irish language street signs or when I see the Nuacht on RTE. Makes me happy that the state still care about the language and still keep that tradition that is slowly fading from existence.

    Well as long as you're happy.


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