Should Irish be made optional at schools.

PopePalpatine

WhiteRoses wrote: »

In order to get into 3rd level institutions maths is compulsory.

AFAIR that's only for science courses (e.g. biology, CSSE, chemistry etc.).

SusieBlue

PopePalpatine wrote: »

AFAIR that's only for science courses (e.g. biology, CSSE, chemistry etc.).

Yeah I think you're right. I finished school 8 years ago and it was compulsory to have a minimum of a D3 in ordinary level to be eligible for 3rd level back then, so I was going by that!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Of course it should be option - there's no real reason for it NOT to be optional.

To the people saying "it's a dead language" or "it's part of our heritage": stop being so ****ing selfish.

NONE of you have the right to dictate what is/is not dead to someone else, or what is/is not part of someone else's heritage. It might be dead TO YOU. or it might be part of YOUR heritage, but that doesn't mean every 15/16 year old in the country feels (or even should feel) the same way.

Student's career, student's education, student's choice (and yes, I feel the same way about every subject after junior cert)

Wanderer2010

Definitely optional. Nobody is even going to be speaking Irish in a few generations, its as dead as a dodo essentially and you can easily go through adult life without ever speaking it, except the outdated rule for civil servants.

You spend too much of your life in school to be forced to do a subject that's irrelevant. If you want to then fine but if not that should be ok.

danmanw8

Fanny **** wrote: »

I'd make it optional after the junior cert personally

Good idea. My friend technically failed her leaving cert because she failed Irish. She's pretty smart too. She just couldn't grasp it

Ken.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Why do people create polls like this and hide the results?

I created the poll and hid the results so as not to skew the results. People see one side winning and join in. Not knowing makes it sort of fairer.

SimonTemplar

Forcing people to learn a language that they've either no interest in or aptitude for is no way of keeping the language alive or honoring heritage.
I spend hundreds of hours in secondary school learning and studying for a language of which I haven't used a single word since I closed my Irish exam paper. It is a complete time waster if you've no desire for it.

Of course they are people who love the language, and fair play to them, but let people choose for themselves.

Permabear

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This isn't limited to children of immigrants: I'm Irish born and bred and it's not part of mine. I don't relate to it or want to.

aivilo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This isn't limited to children of immigrants: I'm Irish born and bred and it's not part of mine. I don't relate to it or want to.

Why?

aivilo

baylah17 wrote: »

It is optional
Your missing the point
It's dead
Has no use
It is worthless as an acedemic subject
At best it is a hobby and should be treated as such by schools

It’s not dead

Sue Pa Key Pa

aivilo wrote:

It’s not dead

It's only breathing with the aid of a life support machine (tax Euros). Be kinder to pull the plug.

byhookorbycrook

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

It's only breathing with the aid of a life support machine (tax Euros). Be kinder to pull the plug.

480 children in my school beg to differ. I had a full conversation with a 6 year old in Irish today. The child also speaks English, Polish and Spanish and enjoys teaching their peers some of the other languages.

I began teaching in a two teacher school in an area where Irish was considered too difficult and not worth bothering with. I taught PE, Art and Music through Irish and soon parents were reporting that the children loved Irish and they, the parents were starting to use some themselves.

In my current school, we used to teach German but the DES abolished this under another ill-conceived cut to education. It doesn't have to be Irish vs other languages- children are bilingual at an early age will find it easier to pick up other languages down the line.

Rubberchikken

It needs to be taught in a better way. More focus on tje oral aspect might help. If kids could see themselves speaking it then maybe there wouldnt be such a hatred of it.
Also how well is spanish French or german taught. Hiw fluent are students at LC level if they had to converse outside of the learned off phrases they have for the exam?
Quality of teaching if questionable.

FizzleSticks

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The Infinite Fart

I would love to know what would happen if kids only started to learn it in secondary school rather than primary, like with their foreign language. From what I have seen there are so many different standards of Irish when they reach first year. Some know a good lot of stuff and others know hardly anything and feel rubbish and automatically hate it. At least if the kids are all on the same footing when they come in the door they might like it more and not feel so discouraged. Also as the course for leaving cert is so incredibly boring for teenagers with stories and poems that they can't even relate to, is it any wonder that a lot of people have no interest!

cycle4fun

aivilo wrote: »

It’s not dead

It is practically dead. Only 8,068 Irish language forms were completed in the last Census, 2016, in the whole country. What does that tell you? The only people to fill out the census forms in Irish were those with a vested interest eg Irish teachers, Irish translators etc.

Waste of time and money making everyone do it - you only put them off.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

aivilo wrote: »

Why?

Sometimes people just aren't interested in things. There's no single or consistent reason for it.

Me? I never liked it. I was always good at other subjects, average in Irish degrading to poor over time because I never liked it. I didn't feel that it was something I needed in my life or felt inspired by. And when that happens, there is absolutely no point in wasting time and resources in it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubberchikken wrote: »

It needs to be taught in a better way. More focus on tje oral aspect might help. If kids could see themselves speaking it then maybe there wouldnt be such a hatred of it.
Also how well is spanish French or german taught. Hiw fluent are students at LC level if they had to converse outside of the learned off phrases they have for the exam?
Quality of teaching if questionable.

Herein lies the problem: pretty much everyone who learns - and teaches - Irish does it for the same reason: exam results.

The very fact that we're discussing this as a school subject and not a language speaks volumes.

mrkiscool2

For Leaving Cert I think it should be split into two. Comhra, or language, which is compulsory. The oral should be worth 50% and exam that focuses on literacy and grammar skills also worth 50%. Then there should be an optional subject through which students can study poetry, drama and literature. Cause that's the part that makes Irish a pain. If we just focused on improving how young people speak the language, we could easily make it a relevant language again.

Sue Pa Key Pa

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

480 children in my school beg to differ. I had a full conversation with a 6 year old in Irish today.

I presume you're referring to a Gael Scoil which cater to those with an interest in the language. However, the vast number of other school going pupils do not share the same enthusiasm

TrustedApple

I only done Irish to I was 8 years old due to the fact I have deslexa and I think learning to spell and read in English came higher up on the list.

Back then my mum had to apply to the dept of edu to get a cert to not do Irish.

I am not sorry I never learned Irish the only issue for me was that I had one less subject for the leaving cert as my fantastic school at the time would only give him for subjects I was doing well in ..... Not give me another subject.

Sorry for the rant I could go on for hours about how I was a student who basicly was called stupid by teachers.

heroics

aivilo wrote: »

Why?

Because I literally have no interest in speaking it. Have not said a word in it since I finished my leaving. It was by far my worst subject. I would have dropped to foundation in a heartbeat except I needed the pass for college. I still remember the oral examiner explaining to me in English what he was going to ask. Reckon its the only reason I got that D3

I did honors German and was fine in fact could have a conversation in German better than Irish. This was possibly to do with the fact our German teacher spent more time teaching how to have an actual conversation than poetry, essays, grammar etc

I just could not see the point in learning Irish. It has no benefit to me in any way not like sciences and a European language that is actually used outside of Gaelscoils/gealtachts.

The Infinite Fart

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

For Leaving Cert I think it should be split into two. Comhra, or language, which is compulsory. The oral should be worth 50% and exam that focuses on literacy and grammar skills also worth 50%. Then there should be an optional subject through which students can study poetry, drama and literature. Cause that's the part that makes Irish a pain. If we just focused on improving how young people speak the language, we could easily make it a relevant language again.

Probably agree with this...oral is now 40% and listening is 10% so I suppose that's an improvement from what it used to be apart from the 20 stupid sets of picture sequences they have to describe that they just learn off. They spend some ridiculous amount of time on the stories and poems which in the end are only about 7% each. Totally disproportionate to the amount of time they spend learning them

Bob Harris

cycle4fun wrote: »

It is practically dead. Only 8,068 Irish language forms were completed in the last Census, 2016, in the whole country. What does that tell you? The only people to fill out the census forms in Irish were those with a vested interest eg Irish teachers, Irish translators etc.

Waste of time and money making everyone do it - you only put them off.

Not one post in the whole thread is in Irish.

lawred2

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

According to the 2016 CSO figures, 1,761,420 people or 39.8% of the population surveyed were able to speak Irish.

According to the 2011 CSO figures, 1,774,437 people surveyed were able to speak Irish. A drop of over 13,000 people.

That's not even remotely believable

Owta Control

Bob Harris wrote: »

Not one post in the whole thread is in Irish.

As far as I know...you're not allowed post in Irish on here unless in a dedicated forum?

Bob Harris

Owta Control wrote: »

As far as I know...you're not allowed post in Irish on here unless in a dedicated forum?

I didn't know that. Kinda makes you think the language doesn't stand a chance if Boards.IE don't allow it outside of a dedicated forum.

heroics

Owta Control wrote: »

As far as I know...you're not allowed post in Irish on here unless in a dedicated forum?

Also nobody would be able to understand it and google translate from Irish is not great.

whisky_galore

heroics wrote: »

Also nobody would be able to understand it and google translate from Irish is not great.

^This.
See how far you get with using Irish in conversation with Irish people on the street or in work today. A few schoolboy stock phrases and bits of half-remembered poetry maybe? It's not an everyday living language except in the ever shrinking Gaeltachts, it's the language of school children, hobbyists and academics.

I think the greatest LOL is with all the attention to the inclusion of Irish in bilingual public signage the translators still get it wrong.
Lads, why even bother? We're codding ourselves.