We need to talk...

Triceratops Ballet

crosstownk wrote: »

Too sneaky - even for me.

:eek:

Necro

Pter wrote: »

Gave a new welcome post for new players a go - any feedback or comments or additions or corrections would be most welcome. Especially from some of the new players recently, who may have wanted particular info before their first game?

That doc looks great Pter.

Digital Solitude

Looks good to me Pter!

duffman13

Pter wrote: »

Gave a new welcome post for new players a go - any feedback or comments or additions or corrections would be most welcome. Especially from some of the new players recently, who may have wanted particular info before their first game?

That's brilliant, it beats the fumbling around in the dark I did in the first game. Well done

Baggly

Got some good feedback by pm there so have a couple of things to add. If anyone else has more feedback please post here or send me a pm.

Baggly

Updated version......


Also below so people can quote suggestions....

Hello and welcome to the Werewolf Forum!

What is Werewolf?

Werewolf is an online game (sometimes called Mafia elsewhere on the internet) whereby a group of players sign up to play a game, with the goal of identifying which of them has been assigned the role of a werewolf.
Each day, through deductive reasoning and (vigourous) questioning, the ‘village’, which is the total group of players signed up the game, try to find the wolves and ‘lynch’ them, until there are no wolves left. At the same time, the wolves have an opportunity to kill off villagers (munch them). Typically, the village wins a game if all the wolves are killed, or the wolves win if they achieve parity with the remaining villagers (no. of wolves = no. of villagers).

There is lots of variation on this mechanic, including the introduction of special roles and powers, but the above is how it basically works. To see a list of some of the roles and powers used, please click here (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057657718).

Who runs each game?

Games are ‘moderated/modulated/modded’ by 1, 2,3 or even 4 game mods (who volunteer their time and energy to do so) each month (and sometimes more than once a month), and the player spots are filled on a first come first serve basis (open to everyone on boards). If you want to see a list of games previously played and the mods who ran the games, please click here (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057666523).

Where do I sign up?

If you would like to keep updated on when the next game is starting/sign ups for the next game are starting, please visit this thread (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057793442) and click the ‘follow thread’ button. When a new game is announced by the game mods, it will pop up in that thread, and you can sign up for the game by posting that you want to play!

Do I need to do anything before I play?

When playing a game, the game will typically be run using a thread on the ‘Werewolf’ forum which is a sub forum to this forum (Forum games). You need to request access to the ‘Werewolf’ forum and you can do so by clicking this link (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057657618).
If you are assigned a role (and new players can be assigned a role on their first game), you will be able to use your powers and interact with teammates (if you have any) on an off site forum, which can be accessed here (http://changeofplangames. com/wwforum/index.php). Go to that site and register a username (usually the same username you have on boards), and if you are assigned a role, the admins of Changeofplangames (COP) will assign you to the right threads there. You will also be able to look back at the archive of previous games on the site, which is pretty darn nifty.

Its important to remember not to ask questions on thread about your role in the actual game thread. Having a role can be valuable information, and you may not want to share what it is too early. A good tip is that, for the duration of the game, only trust the mods!

Anything else I should know?

Normal boards.ie rules still apply when playing a game (e.g. no multiple accounts, no attacking a poster, don’t post bold stuff), and each game will have its own set of specific rules, which are key to read before the game starts. Some of the more common rules are:

• No editing or unthanking of posts during a game
• Try not to be offended, but no personal abuse to be directed at players, especially concerning real life situations
• No cheating, no mass reveals (organising for everyone to reveal their characters all at once, no copy & pasting information from PMs from the mods, no copy pasting from backrooms (COP).
• No discussing the game outside of the forum (via PM, instant messager, whatsapp, pigeon carrier etc)
• Play in the best interests of your character, but not at all costs, make sure you are having fun and that the rest of the people are too!
• Respect the mods decisions
• Be active and post as much as you can, even if you haven’t a clue whats going on!

In addition to this, there are distinctions in game between day and night phases within the game. Typically, the day phase is from 10am (when the ‘munch’ happens and the wolves get their daily kill) and 9pm (when the ‘lynch’ happens and the village gets their daily kill), although this can vary from game to game (and you will be told when the game starts). This can also vary if the mods need to speed the game up (typically we try to finish games within by the Friday after they start, so mods can implement a speed day and have, for example, 2 lynches and 2 munches per day on the Thursday and Friday, to ensure the game doesn’t run into the weekend.

The Werewolf forum is a very open, welcoming and fun community that has grown hugely since it first started. Everyone is welcome to play and learn as they go, but it is very important to understand that while you are learning during a game, its better to post at a minimal rate and try your best rather than drop out.

Dropping out forces the mods to make changes to the game to rebalance the teams. An example of this would be a player who was assigned the role of bodyguard on the good team dropping out. The bodyguard protects a player each night against the wolves, so if that player drops out, not only do the villagers lose a player, but they lose the role that player had. If at all possible, its best to talk to your game mods before you drop out – and they will advise on how to proceed. Joining a game can be a little overwhelming at first, but the longer you try to play along and keep active, the more you will understand, and the less overwhelming it will be. Your game mods know this too and are always there to help!

Finally, as the Werewolf forum is a community, with some players playing monthly games for (at the time of this being written) almost 2 years, there are lots of previously told jokes, terminology and acronyms that will be used in a game. Don’t worry about these – you can always ask what they mean, and soon you will be making your own that will become part of the forums history!

Mollyb60

Pter wrote: »

Updated version......

Werewolf is an online game (sometimes called Mafia elsewhere on the internet) whereby a group of players sign up to play a game, with the goal of identifying which of them has been assigned the role of a werewolf.
Each day, through deductive reasoning and (vigourous) questioning, the ‘village’, which is the total group of players signed up the game, try to find the wolves and ‘lynch’ them, until there are no wolves left. At the same time, the wolves have an opportunity to kill off villagers (munch them). Typically, the village wins a game if all the wolves are killed, or the wolves win if they achieve parity with the remaining villagers (no. of wolves = number of villagers).

Just a really small anal thing from me. Can you say number of wolves = number of villagers. Or no. of wolves = no. of villagers. Don't mix abbreviations.

Otherwise it's really great peter. Good work.

Necro

no mass reveals (organising for everyone to reveal their characters all at once,

Just on this. Not a major thing, but if a mass reveal is possible in a game, and is gamebreaky per se.... it's a design flaw rather than cheating imo.

Above not meant to criticise previous or upcoming games but it's sadly not possible to name your NRVs without opening the door to 'staggered mass reveals' as opposed to all out in the open at once.

People will do anything to save their own necks, guilty of it myself tbh.

Baggly

Mollyb60 wrote: »

Just a really small anal thing from me. Can you say number of wolves = number of villagers. Or no. of wolves = no. of villagers. Don't mix abbreviations.

Otherwise it's really great peter. Good work.

haha i knew that would annoy you.

Necrominus wrote: »

Just on this. Not a major thing, but if a mass reveal is possible in a game, and is gamebreaky per se.... it's a design flaw rather than cheating imo.

Above not meant to criticise previous or upcoming games but it's sadly not possible to name your NRVs without opening the door to 'staggered mass reveals' as opposed to all out in the open at once.

People will do anything to save their own necks, guilty of it myself tbh.

If the game precludes a mass reveal then thats fine, but better have this in there to stop people doing it, than not having it in and people do it due to a loophole?

Necro

Yeah... I mean I get it, it's not nice.

But if you take two seperate games into account,

Simpsons we'll say VS the WWE game - and again no criticism of the mods, both excellent games (Simpsons is still my fave game thus far, even with the whole Grampa Simpson episode, and WWE was just awesome too).

In the Simpsons game the idea was suggested, some jumped on it, some didn't.

In the WWE game it wasn't mentioned, just happened kind of organically. It was a shame for the mods who in the DR afterwards were upset about balance - which was actually fine, but the mass revealing (admittedly that time started by my HBK reveal), left the wolves with nowhere to hide.

I think it's fine to mention it's frowned upon, but I'd also add an addendum in the 'Help Wanted' thread that naming NRVs (unless the theme is purely flavour and roles could be anyone) wouldn't be advised. It's more of a mod thing rather than a new player thing, as a new player could very easily be backed into a corner and be afraid to reveal based on that...

Just my two cents on mass reveals.

Baggly

Necrominus wrote: »

Yeah... I mean I get it, it's not nice.

But if you take two seperate games into account,

Simpsons we'll say VS the WWE game - and again no criticism of the mods, both excellent games (Simpsons is still my fave game thus far, even with the whole Grampa Simpson episode, and WWE was just awesome too).

In the Simpsons game the idea was suggested, some jumped on it, some didn't.

In the WWE game it wasn't mentioned, just happened kind of organically. It was a shame for the mods who in the DR afterwards were upset about balance - which was actually fine, but the mass revealing (admittedly that time started by my HBK reveal), left the wolves with nowhere to hide.

I think it's fine to mention it's frowned upon, but I'd also add an addendum in the 'Help Wanted' thread that naming NRVs (unless the theme is purely flavour and roles could be anyone) wouldn't be advised. It's more of a mod thing rather than a new player thing, as a new player could very easily be backed into a corner and be afraid to reveal based on that...

Just my two cents on mass reveals.

Ah i getcha. Nah i think it warrants staying in to make sure new players play with caution and talk to the mods about it, rather than coming out with a role/name and then regretting it....

These arent hard and solid rules btw, just a pointers guide for the new players. As i reference, each game has its own set of rules, which supercede the common rules i mention.

Necro

Ah yeah, it can stay in the guide. I often keep the 'no mass reveals' rule in my game rules to give the illusion I've named all characters.

As happened to Flushy in the Disney game :pac:

I was gonna pick up on same thing. Games need unknown roles or a swath of NRV's to prevent mass reveals. Claiming a role is a cornerstone of WW. At what point do reveals become mass reveals. I think it's a genuine strategy. It's too much of a grey area to be moderated effectively. The solution lies in the game design imo.

quickbeam

Pter wrote: »

Dropping out forces the mods to make changes to the game to rebalance the teams. An example of this would be a player who was assigned the role of bodyguard on the good team dropping out. The bodyguard protects a player each night against the wolves, so if that player drops out, not only do the villagers lose a player, but they lose the role that player had. If at all possible, its best to talk to your game mods before you drop out – and they will advise on how to proceed. Joining a game can be a little overwhelming at first, but the longer you try to play along and keep active, the more you will understand, and the less underwhelming it will be. Your game mods know this too and are always there to help!

"Overwhelming", surely?

sKeith

What is Werewolf?
Werewolf is an online game .. of players sign up to play a game...

• Try not to be offended, but no personal abuse to be directed at players, especially concerning real life situations

"you're a rat - a sneaky squeaky little smelly rat - Your just Greasy!! "
"dirty filythy lying wolf"
"You sick f**** i bet you do. :P "

You should emphasize that players do not take in games comments personally!
It is part of the game to get people on that back foot, you need to be very careful, that in sanitizing the comments people are allowed to say, that you don't break the game of warewolf, that people have come to play.

Triceratops Ballet

Maybe a tad obvious but maybe something covering PM's

How will I know my role in the game?

In advance of the game starting the game mods will send a PM to your personal boards account, this PM will contain the name of your role, if you have access to a backroom, a link to the back room and a login will typically be provided, if the game is anonymous you will also be given the login to a randomly assigned boards account from which you must post for the duration of the game. As per the rules you are not permitted to copy and past the contents of this PM into the game thread.
If the game is anonymous you must only post from your assigned boards account, penalties may be applied at the discretion of the game mods for repeated posting from your personal account.

The last bit might be worthy of clarification on it's own tho

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

I was gonna pick up on same thing. Games need unknown roles or a swath of NRV's to prevent mass reveals. Claiming a role is a cornerstone of WW. At what point do reveals become mass reveals. I think it's a genuine strategy. It's too much of a grey area to be moderated effectively. The solution lies in the game design imo.

This is a beginners guide - i dont want to leave out this reference, but i dont want to overcomplicate it either. I think its a good idea to leave it in for safety. I dont think the wording says under no circumstances should you reveal, but maybe i need to reword it to say be cautious about revealing, ask advise before the game etc etc.

quickbeam wrote: »

"Overwhelming", surely?

Emphasizing the impact of dropping out came as feedback from a new player. Id rather warn those who are likely to drop out and lose them, rather than have them join the game without realising the impact of dropping out. Happy to take a revision from anyone on the wording if its too strong though.

sKeith wrote: »

What is Werewolf?
Werewolf is an online game .. of players sign up to play a game...

• Try not to be offended, but no personal abuse to be directed at players, especially concerning real life situations

"you're a rat - a sneaky squeaky little smelly rat - Your just Greasy!! "
"dirty filythy lying wolf"
"You sick f**** i bet you do. :P "

You should emphasize that players do not take in games comments personally!
It is part of the game to get people on that back foot, you need to be very careful, that in sanitizing the comments people are allowed to say, that you don't break the game of warewolf, that people have come to play.

There was personal abuse in the last game, and its interesting you quoted no real life abuse, rather than the actual stuff that was discussed earlier in this thread (i bet you are x, y, z in your real life; with x , y, z all being nasty things), and while the mods handled it, it shouldnt get to that stage, and the mods handling it mightnt actually undo the hurt felt by the target of the abuse.

There has to be, imo, at least a warning we can point to that says 'yes, we all will try to not be sensitive, but at the same time, dont take the piss and absolutely abuse someone'.

You, SK, may have thick skin, but not everyone will. You can't abuse someone in a game, and i dont think you can justify leaving out a warning about it, lest we have a repeat of the personal abuse we saw (towards mutliple players) in the last game.

I dont think im putting commandments in stone here; but this message is intended for beginners; and i think giving them a few points

Baggly

This document is turning into a bit of a beast. I was keen to keep it short and snappy so new players dont have to read a thesis to get the gist of the game.....i think ill have to look at editing it down anyway. Dont suppose anyone wants to volunteer to edit it? New set of eyes/fingers to type and all that.....?

sKeith

You don't want me editing it, I'd strip it down to

Hello and welcome to the Werewolf Forum!

blah blah blah

At the same time, the wolves have an opportunity to kill off villagers (munch them).
• Play in the best interests of your character, but not at all costs, make sure you are having fun and that the rest of the people are too!

Baggly

Its definitely snappy....

Necro

It definitely doesn't need to be an all inclusive guide imo. Important notes can be sent to sully and added into the sticky thread at a later date.

On the personal abuse, it's a difficult one. Things within the confines of the game are fine for me personally. Like we all get angry and say things.

We just had our awards for example, and the best meltdown, as voted for by the players involved Molly calling me dense and a 6 year old.
That's technically personal abuse (not that I consider it that way). Sanctions for that would make me despair and not want to play.

I'm just trying to highlight that we all do it in game from time to time, the point is not to let it leave the game.

Lines obviously have to be drawn, but sensitivity and Werewolf do not go hand in hand. Never will. You sign up, expect to get put under pressure.

Get called a filthy wolf, or an idiot. If you find it too harsh, the game isn't for you.

Baggly

All it will take is for one new player to get offended and take it out of the game to an admin or something, and suddenly we might have harsher rules put against us, or a no tolerance policy for abuse in game. Its a light warning - similar to the role reveal one, better to have a warning here and let the player feel out what is and isnt tolerated than have nothing and a new player launches in eyes wide or insults a blazin', i reckon....

Great work nonetheless Pter

Necro

Pter wrote: »

All it will take is for one new player to get offended and take it out of the game to an admin or something, and suddenly we might have harsher rules put against us, or a no tolerance policy for abuse in game. Its a light warning - similar to the role reveal one, better to have a warning here and let the player feel out what is and isnt tolerated than have nothing and a new player launches in eyes wide or insults a blazin', i reckon....

But it hasn't happened in nearly two years.

Back to what Pawwed Rig, the CMod said. We're not trying to re-invent the wheel as such, one ban in nearly two years is a testament to those that play here imo.

The new player takes it out of the game, the forum mod can step in. Not up to us to make those calls as players or mods of games tbh.

sKeith

Pter wrote: »

All it will take is for one new player to get offended and take it out of the game to an admin or something, and suddenly we might have harsher rules put against us, or a no tolerance policy for abuse in game. Its a light warning - similar to the role reveal one, better to have a warning here and let the player feel out what is and isnt tolerated than have nothing and a new player launches in eyes wide or insults a blazin', i reckon....

What is wrong with , "MAke sure to read and follow the rules in the OP"

8) Don’t be a sensitive soul. While boards own forum rules clearly take precedence over any in-game rules that I have, this is a game where people will be insulted, there will be some bad language and people will try to provoke a reaction out of each other. Please accept this is part of the game and don’t go annoying the mods with the report post button unless really needed.

Necro

Yeah, Pter don't take this as us trying to knock your work, it's a good document.

I really just don't want to see the game sanitised and the more fun aspects of the game removed.

Werewolf isn't for the faint hearted. We all know that. New players should know that too.

Mollyb60

Necrominus wrote: »

It definitely doesn't need to be an all inclusive guide imo. Important notes can be sent to sully and added into the sticky thread at a later date.

On the personal abuse, it's a difficult one. Things within the confines of the game are fine for me personally. Like we all get angry and say things.

We just had our awards for example, and the best meltdown, as voted for by the players involved Molly calling me dense and a 6 year old.
That's technically personal abuse (not that I consider it that way). Sanctions for that would make me despair and not want to play.

I'm just trying to highlight that we all do it in game from time to time, the point is not to let it leave the game.

Lines obviously have to be drawn, but sensitivity and Werewolf do not go hand in hand. Never will. You sign up, expect to get put under pressure.

Get called a filthy wolf, or an idiot. If you find it too harsh, the game isn't for you.

I believe I called you a 5 year old who couldn't read. And in hindsight I thought I went too far. But as you said, different people take things differently. I do think the guidance is worth having in there though for new players. They can take the lead from that and then watch other players in game for how far to push it.

Baggly

Necrominus wrote: »

But it hasn't happened in nearly two years.

Back to what Pawwed Rig, the CMod said. We're not trying to re-invent the wheel as such, one ban in nearly two years is a testament to those that play here imo.

The new player takes it out of the game, the forum mod can step in. Not up to us to make those calls as players or mods of games tbh.

How many times would it need to happen before it would be an issue?

Baggly

sKeith wrote: »

What is wrong with , "MAke sure to read and follow the rules in the OP"

8) Don’t be a sensitive soul. While boards own forum rules clearly take precedence over any in-game rules that I have, this is a game where people will be insulted, there will be some bad language and people will try to provoke a reaction out of each other. Please accept this is part of the game and don’t go annoying the mods with the report post button unless really needed.

So are we taking that as the only allowed wording of that rule, that each game mod MUST include in their game?

Would everyone be happy with a mod taking that rule out? Allowing no personal abuse at all? Would everyone be happy with a mod saying there is absolutely no abuse that will be frowned upon - go nuts.

Like we need some kind of guidance on this outside of game rules - i dont think my wording is sanitising the game - its just pointing out to new players its something to watch for and learn the ropes on.

Necro

Pter wrote: »

How many times would it need to happen before it would be an issue?

My point isn't about how many times it needs to happen.

My point is that there's nothing we can do about it. It's up to the boards mods to determine if something has crossed a line, not the players or the game mods.