We need to talk...

quickbeam

Drumpot wrote: »

Reading through how upset some people are getting, I get a sense of "follow the rules or f**k" off vibe . I think that's fine with regards to being regularly obnoxious, being a bully or INTENTIONALLY looking to spoil/ruin the game to win.

I agree. It's really only the above scenarios that I've a problem with, personally.

Boards rules still apply, so that "don't be a dick" is covered in Boards' rule of "attack the post, not the poster" which covers anyone getting personal. Post should be reported via the report button, if they're out of line. And Boards punishments should be enforced in those cases.

In contrast, something like editing or deleting posts isn't a Boards rule, it's a game rule, and it should really be up to each game mod to be as strict or as lenient as they feel necessary in those scenarios, but no carry-over punishment to the next game should have to be paid. Unless, of course the editing/deleting was done in the spirit of being obnoxious / bullying / spoiling the game as in your post of course.

Pawwed Rig

I would point out that sullivlo is the only one who can give an actual boards infraction. The games mods have no such power

Baggly

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would point out that sullivlo is the only one who can give an actual boards infraction. The games mods have no such power

I think we are really talking about in game punishments for rule breaches during a game, and sully being the ultimate arbiter on any bigger/longer term breaches of rules?

robyntmorton

It's great to see the vote of confidence from the CMods, Pawwed Rig, as proof that we are mostly doing the right thing in how things are usually handled, and that is down to the game mods, and where needed, Sully.

Okay, things sometimes happen that require actual forum sanctions. The discussion needs to be as to how much is left to the game mods each time to decide that something in game is/is not allowed, and consequences thereof, and what is a matter for the boards mods to take care of (for example personal attacks that go beyond the game)

These things can't add unnecessary workload to the game mods, and where possible can't start cutting out large parts of the community, or there will be no mods to run games, with no players here to play them. In that sense there is a lot of leniency given and needed, but there needs to be a line drawn between slip ups/newbie mistakes, and seeking to intentionally and maliciously break the game.

sullivlo

Tigger wrote: »

I’m not allowed reply btw and as I said I’m banned so can we just drop it?

You’re banned from WW, not forum games. You asked for leniency because you wanted to continue playing D&D.

So you can contribute to the discussion.

——

I’m not going to rehash what was said already. My issue with this game was the non-anon/anon/rereg thing, from a players perspective and from a boards mod perspective. I was put into a position that I believe was unfair on me, as I had knowledge that tigger was playing & by rights could have revoked his access, but if I did that it would have effectively ended the game.

I started this thread to try sort the logistics of boards mod vs game mod, and I think I have it clear in my head for now.

Just as an FYI. I won’t be playing for the foreseeable future. Between work, college and life, I don’t have enough free time any more, and the time that I do have I want to enjoy. And tbh, I just didn’t enjoy this game.

I’m happy to stay on as boards mod from a game administraton point of view - locking/deleting/sticking/editing/giving access etc, I just won’t be signing up to play.

That leaves me impartial to all decisions.

sKeith

sullivlo wrote: »

You’re banned from WW, not forum games. You asked for leniency because you wanted to continue playing D&D.

as a d&d player i thank u for the leniency offered. only watch the d&d game to dicover why. it is very enjoyable and tigger only enriches the experience

sullivlo wrote:

So you can contribute to the discussion.

——

I’m not going to rehash what was said already. My issue with this game was the non-anon/anon/rereg thing, from a players perspective and from a boards mod perspective. I was put into a position that I believe was unfair on me, as I had knowledge that tigger was playing & by rights could have revoked his access, but if I did that it would have effectively ended the game.

sullivlo wrote:

I started this thread to try sort the logistics of boards mod vs game mod, and I think I have it clear in my head for now.

Just as an FYI. I won’t be playing for the foreseeable future. Between work, college and life, I don’t have enough free time any more, and the time that I do have I want to enjoy.

sullivlo wrote:

And tbh, I just didn’t enjoy this game.

i hope my backroom had little to do with that, you seemed angry with your lover, we had only fleeting moments to discuss anything . you did leave your knowlege of the apple which was paramount to my survival, so thanks for that.

sullivlo wrote:

I’m happy to stay on as boards mod from a game administraton point of view - locking/deleting/sticking/editing/giving access etc, I just won’t be signing up to play.

That leaves me impartial to all decisions.

Banjo

sullivlo wrote: »

You’re banned from WW, not forum games. You asked for leniency because you wanted to continue playing D&D.

I'm aware that I am both drunk and overstepping my boundaries. Again. But if he's not violating forum rules - and this is not the WW forum - then what the **** is going on with this threat.

A D&D thread where elderly women can sleep safely in their beds without fear of exploding arrows.... Well that's not a world I want to live in!

I have seen a very VERY ugly side to this shore of boards the last couple of days. Granted most of it was me. But still...

sKeith

to most peolple subscribed to this thread, please read back over it again, and remember the rules

1) dont be a dick
2) no personal attacks.

put a black mark beside people who break these rules in this thread. once you are finished. who is left?



can't we all just get on?

sKeith

glad you're weeding out all the pickpocketers and paedos banjo, doing a justice for some universe anyways.

Banjo

sKeith wrote: »

glad you're weeding out all the pickpocketers and paedos banjo, doing a justice for some universe anyways.

Beat em, eat em or greet em. Thats my policy!

sKeith

we left othegregrad in your caplable hands

sullivlo

Banjo wrote: »

I'm aware that I am both drunk and overstepping my boundaries. Again. But if he's not violating forum rules - and this is not the WW forum - then what the **** is going on with this threat.

A D&D thread where elderly women can sleep safely in their beds without fear of exploding arrows.... Well that's not a world I want to live in!

I have seen a very VERY ugly side to this shore of boards the last couple of days. Granted most of it was me. But still...

???

What threat?

tritium

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I personally wouldn't have issue with that, maybe that's just me. I would thank or unthank certain posts depending on context

Maybe a simple restructuring of the rules is all we need

Who thanks a post is something we skip over a bit but it’s something I found useful last game for example (who thanks and also who doesn’t). I’d be inclined to say unthanking is the same as editing

sullivlo

tritium wrote: »

Who thanks a post is something we skip over a bit but it’s something I found useful last game for example (who thanks and also who doesn’t). I’d be inclined to say unthanking is the same as editing

Editing posts is easy to spot on boards. Removing thanks is much harder to police.

Pawwed Rig

sullivlo wrote: »

???

What threat?

Was it a typo? Meaning thread?

Mollyb60

I think he thought you were threatening to remove access to the whole forum.
I think Banjo was quite drunk.

Banjo

Mollyb60 wrote: »

I think he thought you were threatening to remove access to the whole forum.
I think Banjo was quite drunk.

The surprising thing is I still am

But from where I was lying on the floor, it did sound like that possibility was on the table

sullivlo

Banjo wrote: »

The surprising thing is I still am

But from where I was lying on the floor, it did sound like that possibility was on the table

WW is a sub forum of forum games. The poster was posting on the two forums simultaneously, thus broke the rules of the two forums. So by right, removal could be removed from both, but I exercised some discretion and allowed access to continue to FG.

Any further clarification on boards mod action please PM me.

sKeith

sullivlo wrote: »

Editing posts is easy to spot on boards. Removing thanks is much harder to police.

Well, I learned that it was not on during my first game. Thanked a post, then unthanked it.... Then thought about it for a minute and asked the game mods was that allowed, they said to put the thanks back, since then I have regarded unthanking posts the same as editing posts. I police myself in these games, 1 of the rules states you must, the don't cheat rule, rule 2 in Disney game.

sKeith

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I don't think you should edit or delete a post. I think an exception can be made if it's a post you meant to put in some other thread, like you're actively playing another game, or in some rando conversation in AH. But any post related to the current game you should just live with.

The post was meant for this game, but I mentioned the other game and how I was probably going to be eaten in the morning there * or something to that effect. Wolves don't eat their own so was out ting myself as villager in other game, only a mod could tell you its contents now, it being so long ago. It's not worth the hassle pthough.... I was wolf team opposing Maha wolf team, TWD. Night before Maha lynch, my punishment actually came in handy as far as I can recall.

Necro

sKeith wrote:

The post was meant for this game, but I mentioned the other game and how I was probably going to be eaten in the morning there * or something to that effect. Wolves don't eat their own so was out ting myself as villager in other game, only a mod could tell you its contents now, it being so long ago. It's not worth the hassle pthough.... I was wolf team opposing Maha wolf team, TWD. Night before Maha lynch, my punishment actually came in handy as far as I can recall.

I made up the punishment

Something about liking Lucy in naughty places IIRC

Necro

Final few thoughts from myself:

Maybe having such large games (30 players) is a part of the problem. I don't mean to be uninclusive, but it puts pressure (self pressure in my case) on game mods to fill slots to make their mechanics work.

Without going into it too much, I PMed over 50 people in reference to this game to get my requisite numbers... I probably shouldn't have, and I certainly don't advise others to do so.

The first 12/15 players is easy. Build the games for that number and add more of the fancy stuff IF you get extra numbers is my advice.

Then you won't be disappointed and resort to doing things like I did which at the time I felt was fine but understand the anger and disappointment over in hindsight.

There's scope for big games, but perhaps not every month, especially given the regrettable drop off in regular players in the last few months.


SECOND THOUGHT:

Don't overcomplicate things for new players. For instance players this time were confused about the lack of tasks. Most of us regulars know that in a normal vanilla game there are no tasks and you have to rely on your intuition/watching what others say in order to find the wolves (Everyone except Strawbs, she's just psychic - 6 out of 7 calls in a game perfectly made - choosing apprentice, and 5 wolf peeks in a row is simply amazing).

Roll back the roles and have a few basic games so newbies can get to grips with the basic form of the game.

THIRD THOUGHT:
To be more inclusive, and I've suggested this before but we should be setting in place a schedule for live games. Some of the forums members not available to commit for an entire week MIGHT, just MIGHT be able to play for an evening.

I've said it before but I have no problem modding a one night, vanilla game every second month. It's also a decent introduction for the new players without the bells and whistles that the lengthy games have (and that's not a criticism, I'm the most guilty for designing roles etc that have not been seen before....

Immortal BG, WTF? :P )

That's pretty much it from me.

Necro

Oh... and EVERYONE interested in playing a game should follow the Sticky Notification thread for upcoming games. Then you can decide whether or not it suits you to play.

That was the best idea I've seen in a few months for the forum tbh.

tritium

sKeith wrote: »

The post was meant for this game, but I mentioned the other game and how I was probably going to be eaten in the morning there * or something to that effect. Wolves don't eat their own so was out ting myself as villager in other game, only a mod could tell you its contents now, it being so long ago. It's not worth the hassle pthough.... I was wolf team opposing Maha wolf team, TWD. Night before Maha lynch, my punishment actually came in handy as far as I can recall.

Off topic but if you’re playing a game elsewhere where players are that happy to root around the internet for meta, hell fill your boots referencing in other games - tell them your ur nrv over there when roled, tell them you’re the seer when nrv, meta is a curse on this game imho so if that’s how they play then it’s their look out

sKeith

tritium wrote: »

Off topic but if you’re playing a game elsewhere where players are that happy to root around the internet for meta, hell fill your boots referencing in other games - tell them your ur nrv over there when roled, tell them you’re the seer when nrv, meta is a curse on this game imho so if that’s how they play then it’s their look out

as stated origionaly, another player in our game was also in the other game.

tritium

sKeith wrote: »

as stated origionaly, another player in our game was also in the other game.

Fair enough but meant as a more generic point. MU was the first place where I saw players actively popping on to other players home sites to try to profile them- real WTF stuff

sKeith

it was a stupid post, one sec, i dont mind if it quoted here and now....

deleted (it was an edit) post @ 26-09-2017, 01:50 https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104786811&postcount=2296 this is the post! i think.

i pmed the mods immediatly.

Recipients: Jayop, Necro

Heres why i edited a post
Hope you understand why i had to edit a post.

I cannot tell you what was said, you can ask sully to reveal, but please leave it until the game over on *** is finished, i siad something that would spoil the game. I ninja edited it because after i posted it I realized I had given away allignment in the other game. that is a fupa, as you understand, as is me revealing that info to you too. when the game over there is finished, ask sulli to tell you what it says and you will find out it has no relevelance in this game. it was a genuine mistake and i am sorry. but i had to break a rule in this game to unbreak a mistake. I purposely edited a post in this game. i broke a rule, i accept any punishment in this game for my edit and accept any punishment, but in the spirit of WW in general i was forced to. i luv WW and thanks for letting me play.

crosstownk

I'm going to add my own opinions.

While I didn't follow the last couple of games, I have read this thread (most of it) and it appears to me that the same thing happens over and over again. It would appear that the rules are being 'managed' whereby individuals are taking the "in it to win it" part to a level that is neither required, necessary nor appreciated by the vast majority of players.

Lads and lassies, it's really simple. So fcuking simple. Be honest and use your integrity. Yes it's a game of lying, deceit and subterfuge but please, please do all that WITHIN the rules. Why is that so difficult for some?

If players can't play within the rules then by all means hand out sanctions.

The reregging thing is sneaky. It's not technically illegal but it's sneaky to the point where it compromises the game and gives the two fingers to the good faith of the other players. Too sneaky - even for me.

I've said it in previous threads that people need to embrace the spirit of the game and what this forum and community is about - failure to do this means that one is being a dick. Dicks need to made unwelcome by sanctions, bans or otherwise.

I don't have a silver bullet answer as to how such transgressions should be dealt with but if everyone used some basic common sense we'd make serious progress.

Maybe I've completely missed the point but that's my 2c.


EDIT: TL;DR - It's a game, pretend stuff, don't take it so seriously. Winning won't make you a hero.

Bounty Hunter

I would agree with the above 100% but imo it's mostly just that some people have made unplanned errors of judgement which are not usually repeated, in one posters case however these were intentional and it seems to have been repeated and has impacted on others enjoyment of games. That one poster simply should not be able to keep participating as a result and the posters who fall into the first catagory will know they can't push things too far (the not being a d!ck rule) or similar could happen. Nobody wants it to happen but this seems simple enough to me, 1 lad was a d!ck too much the rest who seem genuinely like good folk will be happier when they are not involved and should know to stay within the rules.



As a new player I think I messed up a few times and did things like removing a thanks not knowing at the time everyone jumps on everything including gifs etc only later did I consider it could be like editing a post but there are levels with these things and If I did things like re-regging to sign up in an anon game and then was a d!ck on the thread I would expect not to be eligible to play the next time I wanted to.

Baggly

Gave a new welcome post for new players a go - any feedback or comments or additions or corrections would be most welcome. Especially from some of the new players recently, who may have wanted particular info before their first game?