Berlin "safe zone" for women on NYE

wakka12

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fair enough. These safe zones may be a swing and a miss but there is no shortage of other worrying stats. I do agree that maintaining the liberal ethos of Europe should be the number one priority. But that requires us to recognise that our culture is good. Not only that, it's actually superior to others. The values of the enlightenment are worth fighting for.

Even very liberal people seem to quite freely admit that european liberal culture is superior. Thats not the issue, its that many of them believe people from many middle eastern countries countries think exactly like us in europe and so will integrate successfully without repercussion . When this simply isn't true, the outrageous levels of homophobia within british muslim community for instance. Even amongst groups who have lived in britain for several generations , and presumably should have been highly influenced by british acceptance of homosexuality by now. Yet still are very significantly less accepting of lgbt community than other british people.

Grayson

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fair enough. These safe zones may be a swing and a miss but there is no shortage of other worrying stats. I do agree that maintaining the liberal ethos of Europe should be the number one priority. But that requires us to recognise that our culture is good. Not only that, it's actually superior to others. The values of the enlightenment are worth fighting for.

The problem with that is two fold.

1) I agree that enlightenment values are great but does our society really embody them? I personally think we have a long way to go.

2) Conflating people with the society. Let's take a non muslim country for example. India has huge problems with sexual assault and religious violence. But it's not just muslims. Every religion thee has this problem. Most of the gang apes you hear of there are committed by hindu's. But you can't assume that because a guy is a hindu he's a sexual assaulter or a danger to women. Most people here wouldn't.

And that second point is the problem. People here equate arab/muslim with a threat to women. They don't actually supply figures to back up claims. It's enough just to assume.

I'd love to have a discussion about how best to assist people to integrate into our society but it's a discussion we'll never have because it always turns into a "Them bad" discussion filled with a ridiculous amount of stereotyping.

Grayson

btw people, I'm still using a keyboad with a dodgy "R". I'm delibeately not corecting this post so you can see how horible it is.
I do go back though my posts to make sue it's ok bit occasionally I miss a word. Nomally because the spell checke doesn't see it.

So apologies of I have a load of thee's rather than there's. I'm doing my best

Will I Am Not

Grayson wrote: »

True but the problem with these heads is that they are led by emotion rather than actual logic and facts. Wild statements fly around the place and there's nothing to back them up.

There's also a ridiculous number of rereg's who drive off serious discussion. The reregs are the ones who come out with the wildest claims. They are the ones who are obviously racist and have gotten banned time and time again.

You make it sound so one sided. There’s bullsh*t spewing from both ends.

511

Just seen this on Twitter. Attitudes towards refugees among German women changed after that infamous New Year's Eve:

Odhinn

wakka12 wrote: »

The fact that there will be growth simply goes without saying. You seem to be implying that actual predicted growth is not true though, based on the fact that europeans also wrongly predicted a demographic growth of jewish community nearly a century ago before computers even existed

Jews and Slavs.

Many of the attitudes and fears expressed are the same. A lot of it is based on the notion that "muslim" automatically equals a certain set of behaviours and values, which is a fallacy.

Grayson

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

You make it sound so one sided. There’s bullsh*t spewing from both ends.

No side is perfect. Both sides are populated by people and we're all far from perfect. And both sides have stupid people.

However there are generally far more outrageous claims from people who dislike Muslims than there are on the other side.

Now for me to prove that would involve me going though every thread on this and analysing all the posts.
1) who the fcuk has time for that.
2) even if I did, no-one would believe it

However you do have to admit that all the rereg's here are the people who are racist/hate muslims. And that's always the case.

Honestly I'd love it if these threads could only be for people who have 50 posts or more. It'd cut out so much sh1t.

wakka12

Grayson wrote: »

And my point about rereg's is proven.

btw, now you're just telling lies. I asked for a definition of a mass rape/sexual assault. I never denied, I asked for a definition.

The definition is vague
'Mass sexual assault is the collective sexual assault of women, and sometimes children, in public by groups of unrelated men. Typically acting under the protective cover of large gatherings, victims have reported being groped, stripped, beaten, bitten, penetrated and raped.'

emo72

Grayson wrote: »

And my point about rereg's is proven.

btw, now you're just telling lies. I asked for a definition of a mass rape/sexual assault. I never denied, I asked for a definition.

do you really need a definition? is some forms of assault not really sexual assault? can we not just use the police definitions? it was the polices statements. and they apologised when they were accused of covering it up.

it happened. you asking for a definition is a bit bewildering. unless you are trying to obfuscate?

silverharp

Grayson wrote: »

The problem with that is two fold.

1) I agree that enlightenment values are great but does our society really embody them? I personally think we have a long way to go.

2) Conflating people with the society. Let's take a non muslim country for example. India has huge problems with sexual assault and religious violence. But it's not just muslims. Every religion thee has this problem. Most of the gang apes you hear of there are committed by hindu's. But you can't assume that because a guy is a hindu he's a sexual assaulter or a danger to women. Most people here wouldn't.

And that second point is the problem. People here equate arab/muslim with a threat to women. They don't actually supply figures to back up claims. It's enough just to assume.

I'd love to have a discussion about how best to assist people to integrate into our society but it's a discussion we'll never have because it always turns into a "Them bad" discussion filled with a ridiculous amount of stereotyping.

from experience of other countries , Hinudus or Chinese who migrate to the west become solid contributors and integrate very well, you can pretty much guarantee their second generation piling into university and becoming part of the middle class.
personally Ive no confidence in having large muslim communities in the west, they under perform relative to other groups and bring social tensions with them. "assisting" costs money and hasnt worked so far.
Europeans should be hard nosed about this as there is little value in virtue signalling about how tolerant you are

homerjay2005

multiculturalism is or could be fantastic,in most scenarios.

The problem however is that while Europe is striving for equality, fair treatment of all and trying to change how those for example of a different s*xuality are treated, it is with open arms welcoming in certain groups who are completely opposed to multiculturalism and oppose those points i made above.

right now, you cant have both - if it was properly screened and gradual then it would work as small groups have no choice but to align to the ways of the society they are integrating into.

worrying times ahead.

The Legend Of Kira

Germany allows in very large number of migrants from Islamic countries end result = mass rapes in Cologne new years even 2015 & reports of safe zones for women two years later for new years eve 2017.


Poland & Hungary didn,t follow Merkel in the same path on Migration policy, guess what there weren,t reports about mass rapes in either country taking place on new years eve two years ago,, nor are we about hearing any reports about safe zones for women in neither Poland nor Hungary for new years eve 2017, unlike these reports we hearing about Germany,  it could be safe to say that those who didn,t follow Merkels Migration policy were wise in doing so .

CalamariFritti

Ok when did what happened in Cologne turn into mass rapes? Just out of curiosity.

Ralf and Florian

Grayson wrote: »

True but the problem with these heads is that they are led by emotion rather than actual logic and facts. Wild statements fly around the place and there's nothing to back them up.

There's also a ridiculous number of rereg's who drive off serious discussion. The reregs are the ones who come out with the wildest claims. They are the ones who are obviously racist and have gotten banned time and time again.

Aren't you the guy who was calling critics of Louise O Neill sexist only to be exposed as having made some choice misogynistic comments yourself on other threads?

Odhinn

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Germany allows in very large number of migrants from Islamic countries end result = mass rapes in Cologne new years even 2015 & reports of safe zones for women two years later for new years eve 2017.

.......... .

"mass rape" when?

These would be the zones they've been looking for since 2003.

Captain Obvious

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Germany allows in very large number of migrants from Islamic countries end result = mass rapes in Cologne new years even 2015 & reports of safe zones for women two years later for new years eve 2017.


Poland & Hungary didn,t follow Merkel in the same path on Migration policy, guess what there weren,t reports about mass rapes in either country taking place on new years eve two years ago,, nor are we about hearing any reports about safe zones for women in neither Poland nor Hungary for new years eve 2017, unlike these reports we hearing about Germany, it could be safe to say that those who didn,t follow Merkels Migration policy were wise in doing so .

I did a quick check on Polands issues as people seem so keen to use it as an example. In 2014 Poland had it's highest rape rate since 2006. You can't really blame it on refugees as 85% of applicants leave Poland before they even get a decision on their application. The acceptance rate is also very low.

Womens advocacy groups have also stated that women who report violence to police are sent to aid groups without a criminal complaint being taken. As such the report rate for violence is very low. There is a massive stigma against women who report domestic or sexual violence.

It doesn't sound to me like Poland have gotten much right at all other than making their country so **** refugees don't see it as a place they'd be safe or happy in. I think that's called the Trump approach.

Odhinn

monnies wrote: »

i don't want to be glib here (genuinely)
but i seen i quote on another forum that said
"the refugees are going where white women are"
please god the world is not so simple

Well thats settled that then.

CalamariFritti

monnies wrote: »

don't try to side track us with your false concern Hans,
you have neither a daughter nor a girlfriend/wife in germany,
so drop the pretence and let the adults here decide the future for their daughters,
und du kannst dich jetzt schnell verpissen und trink soy-miclh von dein "chef" schulz

It's Sarah all the way baby. Schulz..pff

And stop following me. I could have you banned for the other sh1t already. Don't test my patience. Oh hold on. Its probably only re-reg number 87 anyway.

Grayson

wakka12 wrote: »

The definition is vague
'Mass sexual assault is the collective sexual assault of women, and sometimes children, in public by groups of unrelated men. Typically acting under the protective cover of large gatherings, victims have reported being groped, stripped, beaten, bitten, penetrated and raped.'

That works ok. Now you just have to prove that it's mainly non white men and that it happens often enough to be a rational fear.

See, I'm not denying what happened. I'm looking for enough evidence that you could take what happened on one night and expand it to cove a whole religious/racial group. Enough to justify saying don't let people from that group into our county/continent.

Grayson

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Aren't you the guy who was calling critics of Louise O Neill sexist only to be exposed as having made some choice misogynistic comments yourself on other threads?

definitely not me.

What I said in the thread about her is that it's weird that people are cyberstalking her and commenting on every thing she does.

That was a seriously creepy thread. It ran for months with people just posting up here every tweet.

Grayson

monnies wrote: »

hey nodin,

i will pay you 33/000 dolllars to post for our side

Is that 33 divided by 0?

wakka12

Grayson wrote: »

That works ok. Now you just have to prove that it's mainly non white men and that it happens often enough to be a rational fear.

See, I'm not denying what happened. I'm looking for enough evidence that you could take what happened on one night and expand it to cove a whole religious/racial group. Enough to justify saying don't let people from that group into our county/continent.

Well I never claimed that muslims rape a lot or whatever, some other poster did.
But that one incident alone is cause for concern surely. I don't recall something like that ever occurring where such a large volume of young european men targeted such a huge volume of women in such a manner in recent history

Noel82

It's not a question of race or skin colour, it's a question of ideology and culture, both of which imo are incompatible with our culture. I don't give a seconds hesitancy in saying the west has the best culture and freedom in the world.

Captain Obvious

Noel82 wrote: »

It's not a question of race or skin colour, it's a question of ideology and culture, both of which imo are incompatible with our culture. I don't give a seconds hesitancy in saying the west has the best culture and freedom in the world.

But how do you ascertain someones ideology or culture? This is what people giving out about police hiding stats don't seem to understand. You cannot tell a persons religion, ethnicity or ideology unless they volunteer it to you. And people lie all the time. So how do you stop people of a particular ideology coming in?

JPCN1

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I did a quick check on Polands issues as people seem so keen to use it as an example. In 2014 Poland had it's highest rape rate since 2006. You can't really blame it on refugees as 85% of applicants leave Poland before they even get a decision on their application. The acceptance rate is also very low.

Womens advocacy groups have also stated that women who report violence to police are sent to aid groups without a criminal complaint being taken. As such the report rate for violence is very low. There is a massive stigma against women who report domestic or sexual violence.

It doesn't sound to me like Poland have gotten much right at all other than making their country so **** refugees don't see it as a place they'd be safe or happy in. I think that's called the Trump approach.

Poland had a great deal of help with making their country a mess. Possibly started with the Germans dropping by for tea in 1939. They suffered the greatest proportionate human loses and most of their intellectuals were wiped out before being passed along as playthings for the Russians. Those who ignore the lessons of History and all that... IMO they are dead right to be skeptical of Germany and it's intensions.

tayto lover

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The German people need to get tough on this shit. Arm the women with pepper-spray with dye in it and let the lads cops sort out the fuckers. If any immigrant is caught at it they should be deported, who gives a shit where, drop them off in Afghanistan.

From about 30 thousand feet.

Mutant z

These are the consequences of mass immigration particularly of the islamic variety into western society European culture is being torn down from within i shudder to think what the next 30 years will bring but it will be spectacular unpleasant thats for sure.

Mutant z

JPCN1 wrote: »

Poland had a great deal of help with making their country a mess. Possibly started with the Germans dropping by for tea in 1939. They suffered the greatest proportionate human loses and most of their intellectuals were wiped out before being passed along as playthings for the Russians. Those who ignore the lessons of History and all that... IMO they are dead right to be skeptical of Germany and it's intensions.

Its not a coincidence that the countries that have refused to give in to the Germany's demands were those who suffered most under both Nazism and Communism they dont want another tyranny telling them what they should do they are independent countries now who are perfectly entitled to protect their own borders Merkel will just have to suck it up because they have told her to get lost something this country should do but wont because of the sheep we have running it.

The Legend Of Kira

Captain Obvious wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Germany allows in very large number of migrants from Islamic countries end result = mass rapes in Cologne new years even 2015 & reports of safe zones for women two years later for new years eve 2017.


Poland & Hungary didn,t follow Merkel in the same path on Migration policy, guess what there weren,t reports about mass rapes in either country taking place on new years eve two years ago,, nor are we about hearing any reports about safe zones for women in neither Poland nor Hungary for new years eve 2017, unlike these reports we hearing about Germany,  it could be safe to say that those who didn,t follow Merkels Migration policy were wise in doing so .

I did a quick check on Polands issues as people seem so keen to use it as an example. In 2014 Poland had it's highest rape rate since 2006. You can't really blame it on refugees as 85% of applicants leave Poland before they even get a decision on their application. The acceptance rate is also very low.

Womens advocacy groups have also stated that women who report violence to police are sent to aid groups without a criminal complaint being taken. As such the report rate for violence is very low. There is a massive stigma against women who report domestic or sexual violence.

It doesn't sound to me like Poland have gotten much right at all other than making their country so **** refugees don't see it as a place they'd be safe or happy in. I think that's called the Trump approach.

Unlike what happened in Cologne/Germany new years eve 2015, I haven,t seen nor heard of any reports of mass rapes in Either Poland or Hungary taking place on a public holiday occasion to the point where safe zones were later introduced for women as a result, for example if I type in on google news " safe zones new years eve Poland " this is what comes up

 ( Screensave/Exhibit 1 )



If I type in on google news " safe zones new years eve Hungary " this is what comes up

 ( Screensave/Exhibit 2 )



But when I type in on google news " safe zones new years eve Germany " this is what comes up

 ( Screensave/Exhibit 3 )





Look at the difference in the news reports on google news between one country that took large Islamic Immigration vs the two countries that didn,t take in large Islamic Immigration, safe zones introduced in one vs no safe zones in the other two- go figure .

The Legend Of Kira

Odhinn wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Germany allows in very large number of migrants from Islamic countries end result = mass rapes in Cologne new years even 2015 & reports of safe zones for women two years later for new years eve 2017.

.......... .

"mass rape" when?

These would be the zones they've been looking for since 2003.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cologne-police-roving-packs-sexually-assaulted-dozens-new-year-s-n490371