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Medical student assaults girlfriend

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    #242
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    Well if she made the first move then sure why didn't he go ahead and finish her off? what did she expect? few chips in the face, sure that's worthy of a beating. Machiavellian Justice! let's dispense with the courts altogether!

    Now where did I say that?


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    #243
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Now where did I say that?

    Would you be discussing Machiavelli if he killed her? Logically you would see some form of justification as you do at moment.


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    #244
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Would you be discussing Machiavelli if he killed her? Logically you would see some form of justification as you do at moment.

    Where did I try to justify anything?


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    #245
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Now where did I say that?

    where did I say you said that?

    You didn't actually say anything, you came in and suggested reading Machiavelli to the victim of a violent crime.

    What were you trying to say with that suggestion?


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    #246
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    where did I say you said that?

    You didn't actually say anything, you came in and suggested reading Machiavelli to the victim of a violent crime.

    What were you trying to say with that suggestion?

    What I was saying is that it is a bad idea to start fights because you don't control how it ends. It's age old wisdom. Like I posted.

    Starting fights is bad, mkay?


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    #247
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Where did I try to justify anything?

    Your posts seem to be in the she played with fire and got burned vein.

    Exhibit A:
    But the fact remains, she waited up until 3.30 am to start a fight. And she got one. She made the first move. Should have read her Machiavelli.

    Certainly sounds like you think she got her just desserts. Though how you know her motivation for being awake at 3.30 am is beyond me.


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    #248
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Candie wrote: »
    Your posts seem to be in the she played with fire and got burned vein.

    Exhibit A:



    Certainly sounds like you think she got her just desserts. Though how you know her motivation for being awake at 3.30 am is beyond me.

    Ah another one who makes stuff up to fit their world view. Starting fights is bad, mkay?

    Or do you people think starting fights is good?


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    #249
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    Would you be discussing Machiavelli if he killed her? Logically you would see some form of justification as you do at moment.

    Yeah well you know, women want equality, they're gonna get it in droves. That will teach them to not start **** , if she ended up dead oh well, she shouldn't have pushed food into his face. Etc etc


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    #250
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Ah another one who makes stuff up to fit their world view. Starting fights is bad, mkay?

    Or do you people think starting fights is good?


    Nobody thinks she was an angel who behaved perfectly. Nobody should be pushing food in anyones face.

    You, however, said she waited up to start a fight, and got one. How you know why she was up is a mystery. And she didn't get a fight, she got a beating and a humiliation way out of proportion to her own behaviour.

    When I directly quote your words from your posts, I'm not making stuff up.


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    #251
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Candie wrote: »
    Certainly sounds like you think she got her just desserts. Though how you know her motivation for being awake at 3.30 am is beyond me.
    Exactly; she could have been up because she was worried sick that he wasn't home.
    dresden8 wrote: »
    Ah another one who makes stuff up to fit their world view.

    Like you with your 'she waited up to start a fight' speculation that we're supposed to take as gospel?


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    #252
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Candie wrote: »
    "All women are bitches....except me. I'm cool like you guys. Totally got your back."
    pilly wrote: »
    All my friends are men too.
    Candie wrote: »
    Girls are just soo bitchy, I can't stand being around them. So shallow and entitled.

    I'm like one of the guys, really.

    Mod: Enough.


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    #253
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    kylith wrote: »

    Like you with your 'she waited up to start a fight' speculation that we're supposed to take as gospel?

    Okay, I will withdraw the remark. She made the first move. She laid her hand on him first.

    I still think it is unwise to start fights. Don't you?

    Or do you think it is wise to start fights?


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    #254
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Gijoseph wrote: »
    To sum up: domestic violence against men OK

    Domestic violence against women: burn them at the stake.

    Not one person said that


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    #255
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You say "she did after all slap him". I'm not sure that was ever put to her in the case at all. We can't make any presumptions about her conduct, she wasn't in the dock.

    She wasn't required to give evidence in the dock. The facts, including that she slapped him, were presented by a Garda. She wasn't even in the courtroom. Ill presume you didn't bother reading any reports.


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    #256
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Any need for that ?

    Perspective? Yes, definitely. If you had even half an ounce of it, maybe you wouldn't be getting all hung up on the fact that the victim pushed food into the face of someone who went on to kick the crap out of her.


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    #257
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    RayM wrote: »
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Any need for that ?

    Perspective? Yes, definitely. If you had even half an ounce of it, maybe you wouldn't be getting all hung up on the fact that the victim pushed food into the face of someone who went on to kick the crap out of her.

    #256


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    #258
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Okay, I will withdraw the remark. She made the first move. She laid her hand on him first.

    I still think it is unwise to start fights. Don't you?

    Or do you think it is wise to start fights?

    She pushed food into his face. No one has said that is acceptable, it isn't, but it is not a violent assault. He responded by slapping her. So actually he "laid his hand on her first"


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    #259
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Okay, I will withdraw the remark. She made the first move. She laid her hand on him first.

    I still think it is unwise to start fights. Don't you?

    Or do you think it is wise to start fights?

    Oh yes, starting fights is a bad thing.

    HOWEVER it is nonsense to say that once someone starts one then all bets are off and no holds are barred. He got a smack in the face and some mayonnaise up his nose, she got asmack in the face, a punch in the back that knocked her to the floor, a severe kicking, and then to cower in a room while her supposed partner tried to kick the door in so he could continue the beating.

    There is such a thing as a proportionate response. Do you think that his response was proportionate?


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    #260
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    She pushed food into his face. No one has said that is acceptable, it isn't, but it is not a violent assault. He responded by slapping her.

    She started the physical element of this "interaction". She started the fight.

    I think it is unwise to start fights.

    Don't you?


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    #261
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    #256

    What does that mean?


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    #262
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    kylith wrote: »
    Oh yes, starting fights is a bad thing.

    HOWEVER it is nonsense to say that once someone starts one then all bets are off and no holds are barred. He got a smack in the face and some mayonnaise up his nose, she got asmack in the face, a punch in the back that knocked her to the floor, a severe kicking, and then to cower in a room while her supposed partner tried to kick the door in so he could continue the beating.

    There is such a thing as a proportionate response. Do you think that his response was proportionate?

    Actually, no I don't. He should be in jail and screw rich people getting off by paying money.

    Nevertheless, she started the fight. And that's never a good thing to do because fights have a tendency to escalate. And you're not in control of the situation anymore.

    Just like our friend Mr Machiavelli advised all those years ago.


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    #263
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Actually, no I don't. He should be in jail and screw rich people getting off by paying money.

    Nevertheless, she started the fight. And that's never a good thing to do because fights have a tendency to escalate. And you're not in control of the situation anymore.

    Just like our friend Mr Machiavelli advised all those years ago.

    Fairly sure that A) Machiavelli was talking about war and B ) today, even in war, there are rules of what you can and can't do. North Korea has been threatening people with nukes and has launched some missiles over Japan. Japan has more than enough military power to wipe NK off the map, but they haven't because that would be a massive overreaction, even to what is a deliberate provocation. There would be massive international problems if Japan turned NK into a smoking crater and then shrugged their shoulders and said 'they started it'.

    She may have started the fight, but she also finished it by walking away. He is the one who kept going with the intent to cause her serious harm. There is no way to justify his vicious, cowardly actions.


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    #264
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    kylith wrote: »
    Fairly sure that A) Machiavelli was talking about war and B ) today, even in war, there are rules of what you can and can't do. North Korea has been threatening people with nukes and has launched some missiles over Japan. Japan has more than enough military power to wipe NK off the map, but they haven't because that would be a massive overreaction, even to what is a deliberate provocation. There would be massive international problems if Japan turned NK into a smoking crater and then shrugged their shoulders and said 'they started it'.

    She may have started the fight, but she also finished it by walking away. He is the one who kept going with the intent to cause her serious harm. There is no way to justify his vicious, cowardly actions.

    Is a war not a fight?

    And she did try and walk away. But just like Mr. Machiavelli said, they do not end when you please.

    And that's why it unwise to start fights.


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    #265
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Coming up on 300 posts and I'm still not seeing anything other that a thinly veiled 'she was asking for it'.


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    #266
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Is a war not a fight?

    And she did try and walk away. But just like Mr. Machiavelli said, they do not end when you please.

    And that's why it unwise to start fights.

    Meh looks like your trying to justify what this lad done here, with a misuse of obscure quote



    In no world is following someone about,knocking em and repeatedly kicking em a appropriate response to what happened here....anyone who thinks it is,would do well to attend anger management classes


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    #267
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    dresden8 wrote: »
    I think it is unwise to start fights.

    Don't you?
    dresden8 wrote: »

    Or do you think it is wise to start fights?
    dresden8 wrote: »
    Ah another one who makes stuff up to fit their world view. Starting fights is bad, mkay?

    Or do you people think starting fights is good?
    dresden8 wrote: »

    Starting fights is bad, mkay?

    Jesus Christ if it'll save nine more of these posts I'll bite.

    I do think starting fights is bad. I think you can presume that everybody here broadly agrees with that.

    Is there some further point or are you just stuck on that setting?


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    #268
    WHIP IT!
    Registered Users Posts: 5,881 ✭✭✭WHIP IT!


    super_furry wrote: »
    Coming up on 300 posts and I'm still not seeing anything other that a thinly veiled 'she was asking for it'.

    Really? Are you referring to one particular poster or the whole thread? Because dozens of people have been clearly abhorred by the Accused's actions.


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    #269
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Is a war not a fight?

    And she did try and walk away. But just like Mr. Machiavelli said, they do not end when you please.

    And that's why it unwise to start fights.

    So he was completely unable to control himself and she should have expected a row about, presumably, him coming home drunk at 3:30 am to have ended with her in the hospital.

    What if he started it? What if he provoked her into throwing the food? If I get in a shouting match with my OH is it ok for him to take a swing at me because I'm the one who started yelling?

    Dude, you're actually coming across someone who may have grown up in a very troubling home environment if you think that a minor physical altercation winding up with someone trying to kick down a door so they can keep beating their partner is somehow reasonable.


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    #270
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    dresden8 wrote: »
    She started the physical element of this "interaction". She started the fight.

    I think it is unwise to start fights.

    Don't you?

    Yes but I'm sure she wasn't expecting to be beaten and humiliated. You seem to be gloating about the fact that she was after daring to start it. Simply challenging someone on their ****ty behaviour or raising your voice could be considered "starting a fight" (and we don't know that this isn't how this incident started). Would she also deserve a beating then?


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    #271
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Devin Tinkling Scapegoat wrote: »
    Jesus Christ if it'll save nine more of these posts I'll bite.

    I do think starting fights is bad. I think you can presume that everybody here broadly agrees with that.

    Is there some further point or are you just stuck on that setting?

    You're agreed then. She was wrong to start a fight. Good.


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