Varadkar told to "shut his gob" by the UK Sun

Odhinn

timthumbni wrote: »

It is the uk leaving the eu. Not specifically Norn Iron.

Things will work out in the end. It certainly won’t be bitter anti British Irish republicans who have the final say.

It seems some of the Irish have become a nation of bed wetters. Maybe someday you will leave the EU yourselves. Who knows? Never say never and all that....

Mighty Blighty talk again. It really is all about the flag waving at the end of the day.

B0jangles

Reading this thread and this image just popped into my head, I can't think why...

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

It is the uk leaving the eu. Not specifically Norn Iron.

Things will work out in the end. It certainly won’t be bitter anti British Irish republicans who have the final say.

It seems some of the Irish have become a nation of bed wetters. Maybe someday you will leave the EU yourselves. Who knows? Never say never and all that....

Well the only Irish people leaving are you. I think we'll sit back and watch.

timthumbni

Odhinn wrote: »

Mighty Blighty talk again. It really is all about the flag waving at the end of the day.

It certainly isn’t. It’s perfectly feasible that the uk leaves the eu and continues to trade and have good relations.

I feel the hard ball tactics from the eu to punish someone who wants to leave will ultimately bite them on the arse.

Time will tell I suppose.

steddyeddy

timthumbni wrote: »

It certainly isn’t. It’s perfectly feasible that the uk leaves the eu and continues to trade and have good relations.

I feel the hard ball tactics from the eu to punish someone who wants to leave will ultimately bite them on the arse.

Time will tell I suppose.

Hard ball? By not giving one country more prefereble trading conditions than the other 27.

kowtow

Deleted User wrote: »

Reality check: that's not how it works. You try to fúck over a much bigger power and they have to teach you a lesson, because otherwise every other little upstart with notions will get uppity.

It's lesson time now, and this time it's little Britain that will be getting the lesson. What a historic change this will be. By the end of this... you might even be empathising with the Irish at the hands of your country.

You don't paint a very enticing word picture of the sovereignty we fought so hard for...

Odhinn

timthumbni wrote: »

It certainly isn’t...........

It most certainly is. The mask just keeps slipping every few posts.

SEPT 23 1989

We need to be very careful about how we handle this with the neighbours

standing behind Berlin acting the big man while they give our biggest trading partner a kicking will backfire spectacularly

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We need to be very careful about how we handle this with the neighbours

standing behind Berlin acting the big man while they give our biggest trading partner a kicking will backfire spectacularly

not really. the EU have the upper hand, britain has nothing. they are bumbling along. maybe it's all a front and infact, the uk government have no intention of leaving. but either way the EU will get the better deal.

steddyeddy

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We need to be very careful about how we handle this with the neighbours

standing behind Berlin acting the big man while they give our biggest trading partner a kicking will backfire spectacularly

The British economy is 60-80% services. If we can poach some financial services we should be OK.

Oldtree

The Uk is turning into a house of cards and business does everything it can to minimise risk.

British exporters could lose billions after two-thirds of EU firms saying they expect to move part of supply chain out of UK

The Chartered Institute of Procurement & Supply (CIPS) said 63% of the EU companies surveyed last month said they planned to move some of their supply chain out of the UK as a result of the decision to leave the single market and customs union. The results represent a large increase on a survey in May, when 44% of EU businesses said they were preparing to switch.

I would like to know the number of companies surveyed though.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/06/eu-firms-warn-of-deserting-uk-suppliers-after-brexit

indioblack

Deleted User wrote: »

You try to fúck over a much bigger power and they have to teach you a lesson, because otherwise every other little upstart with notions will get uppity.

The imperialist mantra throughout history.

dr.fuzzenstein

It was mentioned that the UK is leaving a club it no longer agrees with.
It is their right to do so, even if the sanity of the decision is questionable.
But you can't leave a club and expect to be still be allowed to use the private function room, come around for the weekly buffet, use the internet and be able to buy products at a reduced rate.
The EU is not "punishing" the UK (that's just the usual Eurosceptic inflammatory rhetoric), they're just being told that if they're no longer in the club, they can't enjoy the same conditions as before.
Don't know what they're complaining about, they got exactly what they asked for. And I say that as a German who lived half his life in Ireland.

Sheeps

you know when the sun is arguing your political points that something is wrong

A Little Pony

A Little Pony wrote: »

People must make sacrifices.

Hmmmm, so living in a tent it is then. What about running water, electricity etc?

steddyeddy

It reminds me of a comment Frankie Boyle made when he advocated Scottish independence. He said the best part of openly supporting independence is that he gets a few tweets a week telling him he doesn't understand economics from Rangers fans.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmmm, so living in a tent it is then. What about running water, electricity etc?

Proud independent Britons will not live in these foreign "tent" things, but in roundhouses with traditional wattle and daub.

somefeen

PowerToWait wrote: »

Man but there's some amount of snobbery and condescension on this thread.

somefeen wrote: »

Is considering the sun to be a worthless waste of paper snobbery?

PowerToWait wrote:

The Sun is patently a rag, odious and Murdoch is a bad man. Like we know this for a very, very long time. It's the disparaging generalisations about the British working class I was referring to.

Really? Where? What kind of posts are you talking about?

* a few posts later*

dd972 wrote:

The Sun is for hi-vis jacketed, white van drivers sat in a greasy spoon in Gravesend with West Ham or Chelsea tattoo's.

Oh....

steddyeddy

B0jangles wrote: »

Reading this thread and this image just popped into my head, I can't think why...

And Northern Ireland left the awful EU.....because it was haunted.

Agricola

Astonishing to hear Nordies on here advocating Brexit. Unlike their busom buddies over on "the mainland" they risk a lot more than an economic meltdown due to this complete bumbling fiasco. They actually risk a return to the bad old days. Shootings, bombings, mass murder. All so they can wave their little union flag and stick it to those pesky europeans.

I love it when we're sneered at here for our about turn on Lisbon. As if having the ability to change your mind and think again is a bad thing... a weakness. If only the stubborn Brit mentality of so many ardent Brexiteers could take a leaf out of our book, they mighn't continue to sleepwalk into disaster.

steddyeddy

Agricola wrote: »

Astonishing to hear Nordies on here advocating Brexit. Unlike their busom buddies over on "the mainland" they risk a lot more than an economic meltdown due to this complete bumbling fiasco. They actually risk a return to the bad old days. Shootings, bombings, mass murder. All so they can wave their little union flag and stick it to those pesky europeans.

I love it when we're sneered at here for our about turn on Lisbon. As if having the ability to change your mind and think again is a bad thing... a weakness. If only the stubborn Brit mentality of so many ardent Brexiteers could take a leaf out of our book, they mighn't continue to sleepwalk into disaster.

I think Northern unionists are under the assumption that no matter what happens they'll get subsidised. That's why politics in the North haven't progressed beyond sectarianism.

TAFKAlawhec

Nordie here. I voted remain because IMHO I knew Brexit was going to be a colossal f**k up which was much less about the finances and social make up of the UK and more about delusions of grandeur and an undercurrent of mild xenophobia by a voter base that has little understanding of the realpolitk of international affairs or the underlying end game of many of its influential proponents.

One important thing to remember is that the Brexit pushed for was never about the UK overall, rather it was to mainly satisfy the whims of a wing element of one political party in particular. There were a few Labour heads calling for Leave, but they were overall kept at the back compared to Tories and Kippers. This has continued with the likes of Brexit Tories demanding that ministerial appointments are favoured towards their own rather than any whom supported Remain. If there was to be an effective set of terms on leaving the EU it would ideally involve a cross-party negotiating team but understandably Labour & the Lib Dems won't touch it with a pole after the Scottish referendum experience, so it's now being held hostage by an element of the Tories who seem to think that the Brexit they want is the exact same Brexit that every single one of the 17.4 million who voted Leave wants.

Those that aren't being held hostage to their delusions are now finding out what the UK's position in the world stage is. The mess negotiations with the rEU is down to the actions of the UK. No one else. It is simple enough to understand that it is not in the EUs interest to make May and Davis wear sackcloth and ashes but it is important for the EU to negotiate in a position that maintains and supports its union in the interests of its members. And if things break down with no deal made come the day of leaving? The magical idea from Boris "I didn't know the Irish border would be a problem" Johnson & Michael Gove is to make the UK the next Singapore. Newsflash - there's a bit of a difference between the running of a city-state and a varied country like the UK with several times the population, which is already dependent heavily on financial services and service industries in one area of England to prop up the rest of the UK, which already has the weakest of workers rights of any EU country. It's perhaps not surprising that the wingnut element of the Conservatives look up to Singapore, a financial centre with few rules governed by an authoritarian government in a psuedo-democracy gerrymanded in the style of the old Stormont government who micromanage the activities of its residents. Even mild dissidence isn't tolerated.

As for "taking back control" - well Varadkar is flexing his nuts appropriately in his country's interest that it has The S*n worried enough because like Johnson and his ilk, not only should everyone bend down to their wishes they didn't think of the Irish border question because they've never really had to consider it on a day-to-day basis when the major GB parties don't really try to run for seats in NI. If they didn't see that coming, what else have they not had the foresight for other that to make bull**** up about pumping millions of pounds into the NHS per day from the money that would otherwise be sent to the EU? The Yanks have already slapped punitive tariffs on Bombardier manufacturing parts made in Belfast while a high up member of the Trump administration has said that if the UK wants to sign up to a free-trade deal with the USA, it needs to become America's b*tch. That might suit neo-cons like Liam Fox but the UK population generally don't seem too fond of the idea of having hormone fuelled beef, chlorine washed chicken and wood shavings in bread being sold in Tesco and Asda. Not to mention that India has indicated that any trade deal must allow for easier access for Indian nationals to work & reside in the UK.

The psyche driving a lot of this I believe is down to the UK over the last several centuries never having had to suffer a major humiliation on its own turf alongside a faded empire that is irrelevant to how the world works today. The likes of Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc. have all been humbled in wars that are still being told today. The only way that will happen to the UK is when they realise that they have little to no leverage to bully others around like they once had with the old colonies having moved on to participate in their own regional hegemony, shocked at the Irish daring to stand up to them rather than being good croppies and return to the bosom of the UK, and confusion as to why those in mainland Europe aren't in awe of the Union Jack.

I would like to be proved wrong but I don't see it. What's happened is a carefully engineered coup that is being led by an elite that has played to base fears and worries of a part of the population to turn them into useful idiots who might find out too late to understand that the head Brexiteers aren't doing it for their interests or the interests of the general welfare of the whole of the UK - because if/when things go massively tits up, the likes of Boris Johnson ("£250,000 is chicken feed"), Jacob Rees-Mogg ("The growing use of food banks is rather uplifting") and Nigel Farage (self-styled man-of-the-people former stockbroker who claimed a salary of £85k left him poor) will have already manned the life boats to set sail elsewhere - and Farage has even admitted to thinking of doing it.

ArchXStanton

Agricola wrote: »

Astonishing to hear Nordies on here advocating Brexit. Unlike their busom buddies over on "the mainland" they risk a lot more than an economic meltdown due to this complete bumbling fiasco. They actually risk a return to the bad old days. Shootings, bombings, mass murder. All so they can wave their little union flag and stick it to those pesky europeans.

I love it when we're sneered at here for our about turn on Lisbon. As if having the ability to change your mind and think again is a bad thing... a weakness. If only the stubborn Brit mentality of so many ardent Brexiteers could take a leaf out of our book, they mighn't continue to sleepwalk into disaster.

That's the new fairly dubious EU democracy,you voted the wrong way there lads,let's pretend that didn't happen and go again...funny how we only get these re-runs when the decision doesn't go the EU's way

Agricola

Nail, meet head!

Great post, TAFKAlawhec

TAFKAlawhec

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think Northern unionists are under the assumption that no matter what happens they'll get subsidised. That's why politics in the North haven't progressed beyond sectarianism.

What too many of them are too thick to realise is that the same Tories who are pushing for a Brexit so hard that taking it up the arse without Vaseline seems pleasant in comparison are the same Tories who want the Barnett formula rewritten or scraped completely. If it was reformed so that public spending per head across the UK was to be equalised as far as possible, Northern Ireland would lose anything to 1/5 to 1/4 of its current public spend. If it went more draconian insisting that public spending in different parts of the UK was to match the tax intake locally, it would be even more severe. At present for every £1 generated in tax revenue in NI, it gets roughly £1.50 back in public spending. If NI was forced to only be able to spend what it took in, the last near decade of "austerity" would look like a picnic compared to what would follow. While for everyone things like health, education, welfare etc. would itself be severely affected, the likes of parades (OO ones notably) would soon be charged the cost of policing while 11th July bonfire grants from local councils would likely stop with the purse strings being drawn tight.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

us in the uk

timthumbni wrote: »

the loans we give you

timthumbni wrote: »

we at a big customer of many eu countries.

You're going to learn the hard way that the we/us the English/British are doesn't include you or any other person living in Ireland, north or south.

Unionists now have to convince the majority in the north that being under UK jurisdiction is in their interests and they're doing a truly wonderful job of demonstrating why it isn't.

Keep up the good work.

Agricola

ArchXStanton wrote: »

That's the new fairly dubious EU democracy,you voted the wrong way there lads,let's pretend that didn't happen and go again...funny how we only get these re-runs when the decision doesn't go the EU's way

The likes of the Lisbon treaty should never be voted on by the common pleb. And I count myself as one of those before anyone thinks Im taking a pop. The sheer amount of legalese required to fully understand the thing is beyond the ordinary voter. And that's in an ideal world where ALL the voters will engage with the thing and actually educate themselves on the thrust of it. In reality, most wont.
My view is, we have elected representatives who have access to teams of lawyers who deal with this stuff on a daily basis, it should be their task to approve or disapprove a treaty like that. If a private person needs sound legal advice, they consult a solicitor, they don't ask the opinion of Johnny behind the bar of the local.

The very same things applies to Brexit, which is a vastly more complex proposition. Instead of a small elite with vested interests and shady agendas filling the electorate with lies about free money for the NHS etc etc, what if the vote was kept to elected representatives in London, Would it still pass? All points to no. Problem solved, case closed.

wes

The same worthless rag that is boycotted in Liverpool for there yellow journalism, and let not get into there hacking carry on, can go take a leap off a cliff.

Murdoch media all of it, is utterly corrupt and vile.

ArchXStanton

Agricola wrote: »

The likes of the Lisbon treaty should never be voted on by the common pleb. And I count myself as one of those before anyone thinks Im taking a pop. The sheer amount of legalese required to fully understand the thing is beyond the ordinary voter. And that's in an ideal world where ALL the voters will engage with the thing and actually educate themselves on the thrust of it. In reality, most wont.
My view is, we have elected representatives who have access to teams of lawyers who deal with this stuff on a daily basis, it should be their task to approve or disapprove a treaty like that. If a private person needs sound legal advice, they consult a solicitor, they don't ask the opinion of Johnny behind the bar of the local.

The very same things applies to Brexit, which is a vastly more complex proposition. Instead of a small elite with vested interests and shady agendas filling the electorate with lies about free money for the NHS etc etc, what if the vote was kept to elected representatives in London, Would it still pass? All points to no. Problem solved, case closed.

The architects of the Lisbon treaty are on record as saying it was meant to be unreadable for governments to sell it better to their citizens, that they didn't need a referendum on it...that is administrive abuse and anti-democratic.










Oh yeah and "vote yes for jobs!"

TAFKAlawhec

ArchXStanton wrote: »

The architects of the Lisbon treaty are on record as saying it was meant to be unreadable for governments to sell it better to their citizens, that they didn't need a referendum on it...that is administrive abuse and anti-democratic.

If in the view of TDs and Senators that the Lisbon Treaty was clouded up in too much bureaucratic language that it made it difficult to read, the proper reaction should have been for them via the Government to send the copies back to Brussels asking to clarify at the very least key points within the treaty in a more direct language. If the EU refused to do that then the default for campaigning should have been a "no" vote by the government on the basis that it was not clear what Ireland was signing up for. While the EU could be accused of being sneaky, it's the fault of the Oireachtas for not seeking to stand up in the national interest. In any case, the first result was No, some clarifications and amendments were made to try and satisfy Irish concerns which was then enough for it to pass a second time. The EU were forced by Irish citizens to making concessions.

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Oh yeah and "vote yes for jobs!

Oddly while not as blatantly spoken off, "Jobs!" was a dog whistle used by Vote Leave on two fronts. One was claiming almost every single time that when Remain was warning about multinational companies leaving the UK in the event of a Brexit vote, it was retorted with "PROJECT FEAR!!". Second was the underlying current of foreigners coming over and taking "their" jobs. Well since the vote the amount of foreign workers & residents from the EU in the UK has seen a significant drop, so much so that the NHS has a nursing shortage and that crops in places like Linconshire and Cornwall are rotting away because the seasonal workers from eastern Europe aren't coming over and the local "natives" who are on the dole can't be arsed to pick them for a few weeks because it ain't for those who want to do something cushy and the pay isn't too great.