Varadkar told to "shut his gob" by the UK Sun

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Hilarious how some people can possibly think the passion and drive exists to such a degree over the EU to start being violent.

No, just a vote in the direction of unification.

J Mysterio

steddyeddy wrote: »

You're confused. It's the majority of the North that voted remain. So the majority of the North are Irish republicans?

He portrays it as if it's only nationalists who want to avoid a border on this island.

This guy is an eel and is intellectually dishonest, no point debating with him .

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Hilarious how some people can possibly think the passion and drive exists to such a degree over the EU to start being violent.

No, just a vote in the direction of unification.

The EU and unification with the Irish Republic are two fundamentally different things, culturally, socially and economically and historically. Have you got any recent polling which shows those within Unionism wanting to form with the Irish Republic?

Certainly no evidence on how it would be paid for, what the health service would look like, taxes, cultural protections, the flag, the constitution being scrapped and many other reasons why we see it as a non runner. Maybe in 100 years time when we are being flooded via globalization and having to fight it off, then it might be a good idea for the actual Irish people to unite around one banner.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

The EU and unification with the Irish Republic are two fundamentally different things, culturally, socially and economically and historically. Have you got any recent polling which shows those within Unionism wanting to form with the Irish Republic?

Certainly no evidence on how it would be paid for, what the health service would look like, taxes, cultural protections, the flag, the constitution being scrapped and many other reasons why we see it as a non runner. Maybe in 100 years time when we are being flooded via globalization and having to fight it off, then it might be a good idea for the actual Irish people to unite around one banner.

Northern irelands future will be decided in the next ten years not 100.
If you are under the delusion it will be the same in 100 years then not only are you a Jedi you are the Last Jedi.

Infini

steddyeddy wrote: »

No ALP, the majority do not like it hence they voted the other way. I don't think violence will break out yet. I do think people will vote to go back in the EU if things get worse.

Id agree. If what we suspect is a hard brexit that happens people will kick up if they find themselves out of buisness or their costs rise dramatically. A united ireland is a strong possibility if the economic situation were to take a dive and NI were finding themselves worse off than the republic or being in a united ireland.

There's a ridiculous level of denial from some unionist how bad this could go for them. Its obvious those who know the perils in London are being sidelined by the brexiteer gob****es with no idea or are in complete denial of how bad this could go. Such a stupid waste of time just because of petty inparty politics.

It will ultimately come down to economics if NI stays or rejoins the rest of ireland. Dont forget Scotland is kicking up over this disaster as well and they could very well want out too if things tank.

blanch152

Agricola wrote: »

Jaysus, some tripe coming out of Arlene's gob. You'd wonder what planet she inhabits, because it doesn't appear to this one. She actually believes the chief concern for Brussels is using NI as a bargaining chip to hammer the UK in the Brexit deal and for southern politicians it's just keeping the free trade open with NI! No Arlene, a lot of quite like not giving lunatics an excuse to turn a corner of the island into a warzone again actually.

As someone else said, she has nothing to offer. So her only option is to throw a few shapes and gee up her own crew. Pathetic stuff.

Thankfully, it seems that as the squabbling children Arlene and Michelle can't get their act together in the North, Leo is stepping in to take over, calling for the BIIGC to be recalled.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Thankfully, it seems that as the squabbling children Arlene and Michelle can't get their act together in the North, Leo is stepping in to take over, calling for the BIIGC to be recalled.

About time.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The EU and unification with the Irish Republic are two fundamentally different things, culturally, socially and economically and historically. Have you got any recent polling which shows those within Unionism wanting to form with the Irish Republic?

Certainly no evidence on how it would be paid for, what the health service would look like, taxes, cultural protections, the flag, the constitution being scrapped and many other reasons why we see it as a non runner. Maybe in 100 years time when we are being flooded via globalization and having to fight it off, then it might be a good idea for the actual Irish people to unite around one banner.

Northern irelands future will be decided in the next ten years not 100.
If you are under the delusion it will be the same in 100 years then not only are you a Jedi you are the Last Jedi.

In 10 years time NI will be part of the UK, quote me on this and save this thread, please mods do not delete this thread.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

In 10 years time NI will be part of the UK, quote me on this and save this thread, please mods do not delete this thread.

OK and you can quote me that desire for unification will significantly increase in those 10 years. NI will also be a lot worse off.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

In 10 years time NI will be part of the UK, quote me on this and save this thread, please mods do not delete this thread.

OK and you can quote me that desire for unification will significantly increase in those 10 years. NI will also be a lot worse off.

Ok. ;)

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

In 10 years time NI will be part of the UK, quote me on this and save this thread, please mods do not delete this thread.

It might well be. But a decision on that will be made by the people within 10 yes.
I think northern Ireland is facing such a downfall in its economy only hardened loyalists will want to continue the journey with a UK that is no longer able or willing to give them handouts.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Ok. ;)

Will we bet a few bob on it? How about if I win you have to dress as Gerry Adams and walk up and down the Shankill road.

donegaLroad

The Sun has double spacing between lines so readers can put their finger under each word as they read. Does it still have page 3? Its been about 20 years since I lit the fire with it.

Avatar MIA

donegaLroad wrote: »

The Sun has double spacing between lines so readers can put their finger under each word as they read. Does it still have page 3? Its been about 20 years since I lit the fire with it.

All national newspapers have a page 3

RustyNut

Avatar MIA wrote: »

All national newspapers have a page 3

Yea but counting the pages and getting all the way to 3 is the sun readers equivalent to normal people completing the complex crossword in a broadsheet.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

NI will be part of the UK.

The north isn't a 'part' of the UK like Scotland, Wales and England as much as you'd like to fool yourself it is, more of an appendage, a contested region.

The British never considered the creation of the gerrymandered statelet a permanent solution to the Irish question. The British have 'no selfish or strategic interest in NI'. The north is already in constitutional limbo since the GFA was signed. The Irish claim over the north remains codified in the constitution.

The British have agreed that the future of the north is a matter for the people of Ireland alone (that's you and me sweetpea) without external impediment (i.e. the British Government).

Ewan Hoosarmi

NI is fucked either way. Reduction in living standards across the UK will be felt hardest in NI. It's unlikely that a united Ireland will come about in the foreseeable future. NI is a financial basket case. It's so bad that the rest of Ireland wouldn't be able to shoulder the financial burden. The UK couldn't give a toss about NI. When the DUP are no longer needed to prop up an ailing government, they will be dropped kicked back into the gutter they crawled out of.

The only question for the people of Ni is: how bad is it going to be? Really, all the people of NI should be pushing for a reversal of Brexit, before it does more damage than it has already done. There is no upside for them.

MrPudding

steddyeddy wrote: »

I agree completely . I think partition has given them a sense of entitlement. Threaten violence and everything will work out in the end. Their focus on sectarianism has held them back economically for decades. The problem is that Brexit, that they wanted won't just hold them back, it will make all of Northern Ireland consistently worse off. That won't be tolerated.

There was a really interesting observation in a book I read some time ago. I think it was a book on the Druncree protest, but i can't recall exactly.

Anyway, the author had spoken to many people, including loyalist and republican prisoners. She said the difference between the two could be summed up by the books on the bookshelves of the respective wings in the prisons. IN the nationalist wing the book were on history, politics, law, the media, and other such topics. In the loyalist wings, weightlifting.

Not sure if it is true, I have no reason to disbelieve the author, but I have never tried to independently confirm. It does feel true, however. And we know that feelings trump facts these days.

MrP

kowtow

Anybody listening to Parliamentary questions in the UK today would have noticed the precise words Theresa May used in response to a question about Leo's intervention and the border.

"WE (her emphasis) will not be putting any infrastructure at the border... etc. etc."

Strikes me that the strategy is to let the EU put the crossings back in, if they must. I suspect this has been the plan all along and in some limited way I suppose Varadkar is slightly making himself a hostage to fortune here.

MrPudding

kowtow wrote: »

Anybody listening to Parliamentary questions in the UK today would have noticed the precise words Theresa May used in response to a question about Leo's intervention and the border.

"WE (her emphasis) will not be putting any infrastructure at the border... etc. etc."

Strikes me that the strategy is to let the EU put the crossings back in, if they must. I suspect this has been the plan all along and in some limited way I suppose Varadkar is slightly making himself a hostage to fortune here.

Is this the same Theresa May that said there would not be an early election? That Theresa May?

Personally, I would be quite happy with a hard border in the Irish sea and full border control at the airports and ports in England, Wales and Scotland. How do you feel about that ALP? How will your DUP buddies feel about passport checks to get onto the mainland?

MrP

kowtow

kowtow wrote: »

Anybody listening to Parliamentary questions in the UK today would have noticed the precise words Theresa May used in response to a question about Leo's intervention and the border.

"WE (her emphasis) will not be putting any infrastructure at the border... etc. etc."

Strikes me that the strategy is to let the EU put the crossings back in, if they must. I suspect this has been the plan all along and in some limited way I suppose Varadkar is slightly making himself a hostage to fortune here.

Varadkar is pretty much helpless.

The only thing he can do, in reality, is veto any plan, but that means no deal and the hardest of Brexits, which is without a doubt the worst possible scenario for this whole island.

Avatar MIA

MrPudding wrote: »

Is this the same Theresa May that said there would not be an early election? That Theresa May?

Theresa May or May not? Her?

A Little Pony

The north isn't a 'part' of the UK like Scotland, Wales and England as much as you'd like to fool yourself it is, more of an appendage, a contested region.

The British never considered the creation of the gerrymandered statelet a permanent solution to the Irish question. The British have 'no selfish or strategic interest in NI'. The north is already in constitutional limbo since the GFA was signed. The Irish claim over the north remains codified in the constitution.

The British have agreed that the future of the north is a matter for the people of Ireland alone (that's you and me sweetpea) without external impediment (i.e. the British Government).

More utter nonsense and the sad thing is some on this forum fall for it without having a clue what you just said which is just factually incorrect. The Irish state got rid of Articles 2 and 3 as per the GFA, it is up to the consent of the people of Northern Ireland if they wish to remain part of the United Kingdom or join up with the Irish Republic. What the people in the Irish Republic think is utterly irrelevant UNLESS the people of Northern Ireland vote to join them, only then what they think actually matter via a vote.

Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom, it is part of it recognized via the GFA and via the international community (see NATO) and recognized in law. So you can try to mislead people on here but you can't mislead someone who knows the facts, knows the constitutional position of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom. 

Without adding in those fundamental facts by ignoring the consent of the people of Northern Ireland, it's deliberately misleading people and practically fake news which I thought was outlawed on this forum and wasn't allowed, I would hope someone could look into that, it shouldn't be allowed. It is important you frame what you say correctly, such as the people in the Irish state can only get a say on the constitutional position of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom IF the people of Northern Ireland vote for a united Ireland, it's vitally important that you add that.

Regarding strategic interest, you could easily make that argument for Scotland or Wales, what strategic interest do the English have towards Scotland or Wales, why wouldn't they advocate Wales leaves the Union? England doesn't need any of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland to function as a country in it's own right, that is missing the whole point of the Union of which the sovereign is the head of that Union.

MrPudding wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

I agree completely . I think partition has given them a sense of entitlement. Threaten violence and everything will work out in the end. Their focus on sectarianism has held them back economically for decades. The problem is that Brexit, that they wanted won't just hold them back, it will make all of Northern Ireland consistently worse off. That won't be tolerated.

There was a really interesting observation in a book I read some time ago. I think it was a book on the Druncree protest, but i can't recall exactly.

Anyway, the author had spoken to many people, including loyalist and republican prisoners. She said the difference between the two could be summed up by the books on the bookshelves of the respective wings in the prisons. IN the nationalist wing the book were on history, politics, law, the media, and other such topics. In the loyalist wings, weightlifting.

Not sure if it is true, I have no reason to disbelieve the author, but I have never tried to independently confirm. It does feel true, however. And we know that feelings trump facts these days.

MrP

What a shock that some terrorist thugs in the UVF or UDA weren't interested in history or politics, they spent most of the time trying to murder innocent civilians, pretty much the same with a lot of IRA terrorists who spent time planting bombs on high streets all over the UK blowing men, women and children apart. Gusty Spence who was in the Maze prison actually did take history lessons for Loyalist prisoners, it's well documented via David Ervine and others. How else do you think the PUP came about, working class socialist Loyalists, now why they are Socialists is beyond me, but there you go.

I have read a lot of history books from Unionists on various historical subjects, such as WW1. We aren't all dumb or only interested in pumping iron, maybe the drug heads might be who only got those muscles because of steroids. The Unionist community certainly does not look down favourably on these thugs, please do not think we do.

Ewan Hoosarmi

A Little Pony wrote: »

Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom

Just as a matter of interest, what does your passport say? Does it say The United Kingdom, or does it say The united kingdom and Northern Ireland?

Avatar MIA

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, what does your passport say? Does it say The United Kingdom, or does it say The united kingdom and Northern Ireland?

Neither.

Ewan Hoosarmi

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Neither.

Ok mr Pedant. So, how is Northern Ireland not a part of Great Britain? It is ... Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is it not?

Avatar MIA

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Ok mr Pedant. So, how is Northern Ireland not a part of Great Britain? It is ... Great Britain and Northern Ireland, is it not?

You were the one asking the question and FUBAR'd it. And I'm not following what you're trying to say above, so I'll just give you the answer. It's
United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

Ewan Hoosarmi

Avatar MIA wrote: »

You were the one asking the question and FUBAR'd it. And I'm not following what you're trying to say above, so I'll just give you the answer. It's
United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland

And is that not saying to you that Northern Ireland isn't included in Great Britain?

Is it somehow lesser than England, Wales or Scotland?

I realise that you might find the wording uncomfortable. Despite being eligible to apply for British passport, I don't possess one, so I was working from an increasingly distant memory.

Avatar MIA

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

And is that not saying to you that Northern Ireland isn't included in Great Britain?

Is it somehow lesser than England, Wales or Scotland?

I realise that you might find the wording uncomfortable. Despite being eligible to apply for British passport, I don't possess one, so I was working from an increasingly distant memory.

Or is NI, by being kept separate, equal to England, Wales and Scotland combined? :eek::pac: It all depends on how you look at it.

Ewan Hoosarmi

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Or is NI, by being kept separate, equal to England, Wales and Scotland combined? :eek::pac: It all depends on how you look at it.

Yaeh, but I'm a realist. NI just isn't, is it?