Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973525#Comment_119973525

Season one having a positive reception could quickly turn into a huge popular cultural show with a slight push.

Sorry but all you get by pushing a pile of shite is covered in more shite.

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973525#Comment_119973525

Huh? The Fellowship Of The Ring was the 5th highest grossing film in history when it came out. It was a monstrous hit loved by everybody who saw it.

Ringpiece Of Power has been a gargantuan failure. Its no wonder this guy wants nothing more to do with it.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973525#Comment_119973525

jesus thats some revisionism, just the 13 oscar nominations with 4 academy awards !!!

empire gave it 5 stars out of 5, entertainment weekly gave it an A grade, washington post 5 out of 5, new york post 4 out of 4

broke opening financial records in USA, Canada, Uk, Germany, Spain, Australia, New Zealand

but, huh, it wasnt a success until it was......

silverharp

The anecdotes I remember at the time was that the first movie was quite cathartic for Tolkien fans

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973525#Comment_119973525

That part about TFOTR is simply not true at all.

johnnyskeleton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119946114#Comment_119946114

If you dont like Middle Earth youd find it boring.....But if you really like Middle Earth youd find it frustrating.

With the greatest of respect I dont believe youre a fan of Tolkien. Making up Adar is fine I agree, probably one of the best bits of it. People arent really complaining about additional characters so much as how badly they have altered existing characters lore and settings.

I mean where to begin.....in Tolkiens writing the Silmarils are perfect jewels that caused all the trouble to begin with and ultimatley went into the sky, the earth and the sea as a part of the creation mythos of Middle Earth. In the show.....a balrog and a wizard had a scrap over one, smashed it, and it turned into mithril which then burrowed deep into a mountain somehow.

Or Numenor being a noble society that is corrupted by Sauron and is washed into the sea.....no, no, theyre just racists who deserve their fate.

Or Sauron tricking Celebrimbor into making the rings while imbuing them with his own corruption.....no no, they were making rings anyway and he just said "use an alloy"

Or Gandalf being where Gandalf shouldnt be. Or Harfoots being awful to each other. Or Gilgalad being scheming. Or Galadriel being an imeptuous warrior. Or Elrond being dishonourable.

I mean, leaving aside all the bad dialogue, poor acting, clunky scenes, weird throwaways that go nowhere (the sea is always right / stones sink because they dont believe / Isildur wanting to go West and so sabotages his duties but then doesnt care / Galadriel saying Halbramd is the King of the Southlands cos she recognises the broach, but doesnt know that theyve all been dead for a thousand years) and edits and stuff that just doesnt make sense (like the whole tower siege or water going into a dormant volcano to make mordor (without killing any main characters standing right beside it)), which make it bad regardless of the lore, I genuinely dont believe someone who likes Tolkiens work could actually like this.

corkie

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/cltr/world-leader-compares-sauron.html

Posting this using phone, will edit and comment later.

A first I thought this may have been a spoof story, but other sites reporting it as well?

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-gives-rings-heads-former-soviet-union-states-summit

Spon Farmer

I started the show last year but other things got in the way so I decided to start again from episode 1.

I have some questions about Tolkien’s mythology but I want to avoid spoilers so thought it best to here.

A Valer is a a godlike being that lives in Valinor. Morgoth was one of these but turned bad and caused havoc in Valinor.

Sauron is is a similar but less powerful being more like an Angel who becomes a demon.

Valinor is the afterlife for elves.

Is Valinor also where elves come from? And this is where the RINGS OF POWER begins with young Galadriel and her brother? And elves like her soldiers ans Elrond were born on Middle-Earth and she and the High King are considerably older than them so for Galadriel Valinor is both the Afterlife and where she was born?

Have I got that right?

If so, why didn’t other Valer help fight Morgoth? Why didn’t other of Sauron’s kind also help to try stop them?

Again no spoilers please and no talk of show vs the writings unless it is related to the above.

However, if any of this is actually explained in later episodes then then please just let me know that and that is enough of an answer.

Cheers

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973525#Comment_119973525

I think you are being very harsh here.

We have no idea of all the reasons why Mawle has picked 1923 over RINGS OF POWER and his statement had only nice things to say about the series and his colleagues.

People here claiming his departure is some kind reflection on the series is absolute nonsense and they are just desperately grabbing on to this becasue they don’t like the series, etc.

Acting is a job - if you think another position elsewhere is better for you then you take it. It is that simple.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133260#Comment_120133260

why didn’t other Valer help fight Morgoth? Why didn’t other of Sauron’s kind also help to try stop them?

This is in essence the same question that Christians find so hard to answer: why does a supposedly all-powerful god allow evil to exist? I'm not aware Tolkien had a good answer for it within his mythology...

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133260#Comment_120133260

Yes re: Elves and Valinor.

The Valar are more equivalent to Olympian gods than angels. The Valar fought against Morgoth alongside elves and humans - see the War of Wrath below.

I assume you have seen the Lord of the Rings films? So the Balrog in that is a Maia. Sauron and Gandalf are Maia.

Maia are more like angels \ demons, lesser beings to the Valar.

Balrogs fought for Morgoth.

This happens before Rings of Power so there should be no spoilers here... it is told in The Silmarillion.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/War_of_Wrath

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974989#Comment_119974989

Indeed. People were following the build up to FoTR for years before it was released. The reactions to the trailer made the news internationally. That is some CRAZY misremembering. There was almost Star Wars level anticipation for FoTR. Amazing when you consider it was a new franchise and that, let's be honest, fantasy was still considered pretty damn nerdy (Certainly more so than Sci-Fi). The entire trilogy was a phenomenon at the time. NOT retrospectively. They changed thole concept of release schedules. Now major franchises are routinely working on sequels in parallel. I know this did happen prior to LoTR trilogy to a degree (Superman 1/2, Back to the Future 2/3 did some parallel filming for example). But they certainly made it more of a thing. DVD extended editions have yet to be surpassed in quality and content. The hype was insane! People I worked with who would never read a book, let alone fantasy, were suddenly reading it. Book shops suddenly had Sci-Fi/Fantasy front and centre instead of one rack in a dark corner.

Apathy? I don't know where that poster was living. In NO WAY was this correct.

As for the actor. I thought he was great. Thought Adar was the most interesting character on the show and most of that was down to the portrayal. I mean, I didn't hate the show as much as many. I thought it had some good qualities: Adar, thought the Dwarves were PERFECT, thought the production values were great. Liked Arondir. Liked the friendship between Elrond and Durin. But, like most, I thought the biggest issue was with Galadrial. I didn't have any problems with the idea of her involved. But the portrayal was just REALLY bad. (Hated the kid too though 😀. Annoying little sh*t )

But yeah..... FoTR. Apathy? Mental. Hah

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133400#Comment_120133400

The gods of Greece were actually the comparison I had in my head when I started typing but the thought slipped away.

I just finished episode 2 and I was watching I was wondering if the mysterious man from the comet is the same type of being as Sauron. I did not know that the wizards and balrogs and Saurons are the same race - I had assumed that the wizards are were human just with longer lifespans like Aragorn’s people.

I’ve read a bit more that LOTR and THE HOBBIT but it wouldn’t be a patch on what you guys know. Best to leave further discussion of the Maia and the space man there - but the at info about Gandalf and Sauron etc being the same race is definitely something I needed to know.

What do the Valar look like? Did Tolkien ever describe them?

Do elves live in Valinor because they are an offshoot of the Valar race or are they servants or do tgg he eh just happen to live in the same land?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133746#Comment_120133746

Tolkien never really described them as 'we' would see it, it would more a description of their qualities and responsibilities

e.g. Manwë... King of the Valar, King of Arda, Lord of air, wind, and clouds... Noblest and greatest in authority, but not in power, of the Ainur; greatest of the Aratar.

e.g. Orome Renowned for his anger, the most terrible of the Valar in his wrath. Had a mighty horn, Valaróma, and a steed called Nahar. During the Years of the Trees, after most of the Valar had hidden in Aman, Oromë still hunted the Enemy in the forests of Middle-earth with Huan, Hound of the Valar. 

The above is from this Wiki link but it also contains spoilers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valar_in_Middle-earth

Above them all is the supreme creator being - Eru Ilúvatar is introduced in The Silmarillion as the supreme being of the universe, creator of all existence, including the world, Arda and its central continent, Middle-earth.

The elves aren't an offshoot of the Valar, but are children of Ilúvatar, like humans, dwarves and hobbits.

The elves were the first of these children to appear and are immortal which is why they were called to Valinor by the Valar to remove them from Melkor \ Morgoth's corruption.

But a great war comes and many of the Elves return to Middle Earth to continue the war against Melkor ... this is covered in the Silmarillion which is episodic \ kind of like the Bible, covering huge amount of time. If you do read it I suggest creating an cast of characters as a cheat sheet beside you.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Children_of_Il%C3%BAvatar

Spon Farmer

Thank you. That is incredibly helpful.

To be honest, I didn’t even know that the planet Middle-Earth is on had a name (although with all the mythology that Tolkien created it was was silly of me to think that).

So the Elves didn’t always live in Valinor and were brought there by the good Valar when Melkor turned bad? And centuries later he attacked Valinor and the tree as Morgorth and kicked off the war that precedes RINGS OF POWER?

I’m curious about something Galadriel says to Halbrand in his cell in episode 3 but I will wait until I finish the season before asking about it as it seems like something they will have to address.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134766#Comment_120134766

Yes that's it re: the elves.

Not all elves will have lived in Valinor. Branches of the Elven race such as those in Greenwood \ Mirkwood in the Hobbit would not have.

There is a character in the LOTR books, Glorfindel who is described thus - in the films his actions were transferred to Arwen:

"They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at one in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power."

Those who lived in Valinor are described in the books as 'High Elves' and by the time of the LOTR movies few remain in Middle Earth.

Re: the comment in the cell, if you don't get an explanation by the end of the season post it here and should be able to answer if it is just background \ prehistory - unless it risks spoilers for the future seasons of Rings of Power.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120134807#Comment_120134807

Thanks for that extra information.

I will definitely be back here if about the conversation in the dungeon but at the moment I’m assuming what Galadriel said wasn’t meant to be taken literally.

I like that the elves superhuman abilities like in the films (I don’t recall if Tolkien made much of that in the books) - this was something that disappointed me about The Witcher and especially Blood Origin - what is the point of elves if they are just people with pointy ears.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138057#Comment_120138057

It is hinted at in the books... aside from physical characteristics of speed \ skill... if you think of what we find terrifying - balrogs, dragons etc

For an orc, an elf of the blessed realm is 'terrifying' in that sense.

Easier for the books to convey that rather than on screen.

BruteStock

Artificial Intelligence will eventually be able to make a better adaption by the looks of it and for a fraction of the cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyauLq2DrEs

https://youtu.be/bjmvN79eVxQ?t=1

OwaynOTT

i dint think so. AI is mikes away from actual creativity.

was looking at WW2 flavoured Lotr and while it looked okay at first glance it didn’t hold up under scrutiny. Hands being a major flaw in each image.

check out the hand on the thumbnail above

Spon Farmer

I watched episode 5 earlier but had no time to go back and check my first question.

I’m positive that it was said early in the episode that the expedition to Middle-Earth was 5 ships and 500 troops but after the sabotage it was said no other ship was damaged and 3 ships were left. Am I very wrong about the 5 and 500?

As to the next bit, I certain this just something I’m missing as it cannot be an error by the filmmakers - how are any of these ships holding that amount of soldiers, horse and sailors?

Also, there really should have been a scene explaining why Isildur kept quiet about the sabotage. I thought he was going to use rescuing the son to get the Chancellor to put him in the expedition but it seems Elindil did that himself.

Isildur is very unlikeable character - he is incredibly selfish (seems he didn’t even tell his sister he was going among other things) but it being that way makes sense considering how his part in the mythology plays out.

corkie

Someone posted earlier in the thread, I know it is a gag!

silverharp

there was data out recently that it did really bad from a viewership perspective , if I remember it didnt make it in the top 15 shows streamed in 22

corkie

Some people seemed have given a lot more thought to this series than it deserves?

Something that popped up in my google feed, from searching for the above ship, trigger action to be shown posts.

The below post gives details of the ship design and how they wouldn't function as intended.

https://acoup.blog/2023/02/03/collections-the-nitpicks-of-power-part-iii-that-numenorean-charge/

Spoiler warning for these blog posts.

https://acoup.blog/2022/12/16/collections-why-rings-of-powers-middle-earth-feels-flat/

Another good source is this youtube [NotR] playlist: - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLyHBx6FRJC3Gh-_JnvPcPMl4T5LXiH_t

Rikand

With work, i didnt get a chance to watch the series as it happened, so i binged it all after Christmas. I loved the series. Probably in the minority but I've already started to watch it a second time to catch any bits I missed and I'm really looking forward to the next one

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209564#Comment_120209564

Not only here...

‘The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power’ Fails To Break Into Top 15 Streaming Programs Of 2022, Isn’t Even Most Streamed Prime Video Series

Prime Video’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power did not chart on Nielsen’s Top 15 Streaming Programs of 2022, which tracks audience viewership in the United States via minutes watched.

The Rings of Power was beat by a bevy of Netflix original program including Stranger Things, Cobra Kai, Bridgerton, Dahmer, The Umbrella Academy, and The Crown among others.

It was even beat by reruns of NCIS, Grey’s Anatomy, Criminal Minds, Heartland, Supernatural, and others that Netflix licensed from their respective rights holders.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120211173#Comment_120211173

Strangely, I don't think the issue is with the quality of the show. IMO if RoP was a Netflix show the viewer numbers would be way higher, I think Amazon will always be a drag on the numbers.

I also wonder what appeal it has to people who are not fans of LOTR. Would casual viewers get it, or is it too deep in lore that it's hard work to watch it?

odyssey06

In terms of Amazon shows it could be #1 in 2022 in terms of new episodes watched.

While the Boys has more minutes viewed, that is from 24 episodes, so you'd assume some of them are people binging \ catching up on earlier seasons.

TheIrishGrover

On a tangent: I re-watched Lord of The Rings movie trilogy over the last few weekends (Extended editions of course. I don't think I watched the theatrical cuts since the extendeds came out). New 4K OLED TV. Govee lights behind. 4K Blu-Ray. All the trimmings. And.....

And it was still awesome. Golum isn't quite as perfect as you may remember. He is totally convincing animation-wise. But the compositing into the scene isn't quite as great as you may remember: I mean he still looks like a fully-fleshed out character but looks like "oh, they filmed that guy and stuck him in".

There were bits which ALWAYS looked a bit ropey (The warg attack was probably the poorest. It always looked poor). But, other than that, it held up fantastically. One of my favourite effects is in TTT. The bit where Gandalf rides out to help Faramir retreat to Minis Tirith. The camera bounces along behind Gandalf and then casually shifts to the right and, oops, catches sight of Minas Tirith: Oh, there it is. Isn't that nice. The effort that must have gone into that shot. Mindboggling. Especially given that it was over TWENTY YEARS AGO

Narratively, it's just as sound. Almost 12 hours of footage but what would you cut? Overblown LITERALLY Tolkienesque dialogue, delivered totally straight. But it WORKS! Boy does it work! Likeable characters played by likeable actors (Boromir/Faramir/Denethor sequence is, IMHO, one of the best "deleted" scenes ever - I say "deleted" because, like much of the extended edition scenes, they were NEVER meant to be in the theatrical cut).

So if you were worried about re-watching them in case they weren't as good as you remember (given the previously-mentioned "apathy" 😀), don't worry. They are STILL fantastic defining moments of cinema history.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215983#Comment_120215983

i rewatched it myself with the kids over a couple of weekends. It’s a pretty good film trilogy.

But my feeling is unchanged that the additions Jackson made made the film worse. Particularly in the 2 towers. The Elves showing up at Helm’s Deep and the Ents changing their minds quickly genuinely annoyed me.

In the Return of the King I will never understand why Jackson changed Denethor so much. The whole “where are Gondor’s armies” thing was a horrific change to make. I loved the parts in the book where Gandalf and Pippin arrived into Minas Tirith while Gondor’s armies arrived. The knock on effect of Denethor sitting on his hands was massive, it tore the heart out of that part of the story.