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Unpopular GAA opinion - MOD Note #426

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    dog_pig wrote: »
    Whatever eases the pain I suppose!

    I'm not sure many Donegal fans would be interested though. 2011, 2012, 2014 were all action packed, there were 6 ulster finals in a row as well. They're still also the only team to have beaten Gavin's Dublin.

    Would you be saying the same thing if next year Mayo drop off and don't reach the business end? It's going to happen at some stage and if the options are an All-Ireland vs. having been nearly men for a few years then it's an easy choice.

    Kerry beat them in the league final last year..

    Well if that were to happen it is a different set of circumstances to the ones outlined in the initial point then, isn't it?
    The point is, there is actually a nice bit more value to be had in being there, contesting semi's and finals every year, with runs in the qualifiers and whatever else, than arriving, winning it once and fading from the scene. What good is winning something 5 years ago if you aren't relevant any more? Obviously it was nice back 5 years ago, but now? It is as well to be 50 year ago. Do Donegal feel any less 'pain' when they get knocked out than mayo do? If they kick a bad wide and lose by a point, or if a ref gives a dodgey penalty and they lose are they saying, ah sure we won in 2012, it doesnt matter. I don't think so to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    More garbage being posted.

    If its a choice between one AI win and 6 years of mediocrity, or 7 years of challenging but 0 AI wins, then that isn't a choice at all.

    And that is the choice being suggested, before those goalposts start doing their usual movements.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Kerry beat them in the league final last year..

    Well if that were to happen it is a different set of circumstances to the ones outlined in the initial point then, isn't it?
    The point is, there is actually a nice bit more value to be had in being there, contesting semi's and finals every year, with runs in the qualifiers and whatever else, than arriving, winning it once and fading from the scene. What good is winning something 5 years ago if you aren't relevant any more? Obviously it was nice back 5 years ago, but now? It is as well to be 50 year ago. Do Donegal feel any less 'pain' when they get knocked out than mayo do? If they kick a bad wide and lose by a point, or if a ref gives a dodgey penalty and they lose are they saying, ah sure we won in 2012, it doesnt matter. I don't think so to be honest.

    disagree entirely with that. how is there more value in being there over a period than actually winning one? Saying winning one 5 years ago is the same as 50 years ago is the same? At least they saw it and lived through it. They play to win the championship, not to be also rans every year. If Andy Moran retires without winning, do you think he'll have no regrets of winning one because he got to the final a few times and was competitive? Of course he wont. You always hear players saying they would have loved to have an all Ireland medal.

    Yes it's great to be competitive, but they dont hand out medals for that. how do you go and celebrate being runners up? Whats the enjoyment to take from that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    More garbage being posted.

    If its a choice between one AI win and 6 years of mediocrity, or 7 years of challenging but 0 AI wins, then that isn't a choice at all.

    And that is the choice being suggested, before those goalposts start doing their usual movements.

    Well its unpopular opinions man... That's the point.

    I know whst im saying is true because i know lots of mayo fans, and i know lots of donegal fans, and the mayo fans have gotten more out of their team in the last 7 years than the donegal fans.

    Remember im talking from a fans perspective here rather than a players


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Not sure how unpopular this is or whether it even belongs in this thread but here goes.

    As I Mayo fans I no longer am disappointed when they lose All Ireland finals.

    For the last 6 years they have supplied so much entertainment that the final result no longer matters so much.

    2017 really taught me that.

    Sure if they win I'll lose my mind, but for now I am grateful to be living and enjoying this era of Mayo football.

    Oh yeah and on a side note, I'm not sure what is more overrated, hurling or Ulster football.

    really?

    that's a no brainer


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    bruschi wrote: »
    disagree entirely with that. how is there more value in being there over a period than actually winning one? Saying winning one 5 years ago is the same as 50 years ago is the same? At least they saw it and lived through it. They play to win the championship, not to be also rans every year. If Andy Moran retires without winning, do you think he'll have no regrets of winning one because he got to the final a few times and was competitive? Of course he wont. You always hear players saying they would have loved to have an all Ireland medal.

    Yes it's great to be competitive, but they dont hand out medals for that. how do you go and celebrate being runners up? Whats the enjoyment to take from that?

    Why couldnt they have lived through one 50 years ago?
    Re andy moran, the point was made about being a fan of a county, not a player. Fans dont get ai medals. Fans are neithrr winners nor runners up, they are just fans


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭CloughCasey1


    jr86 wrote: »
    Scrap the Provincial and All Ireland Club Series. There are already way too many matches on the calendar, leave it at County Championships only

    The only thing stopping Dublin winning the next 5+ All Irelands is themselves

    What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will ye leave a small bit of the little shred of dignity the club player has alone. For **** sake and all that is good and holy i absolutely HATE Gaa fans that dont follow their club. These are the same gobsh1tes that bitch and bawl and moan and crib about the county players and the fat fcukers havent seen their own shoes in years never mind ever kicked a ball in anger.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Well its unpopular opinions man... That's the point.

    I know whst im saying is true because i know lots of mayo fans, and i know lots of donegal fans, and the mayo fans have gotten more out of their team in the last 7 years than the donegal fans.

    Remember im talking from a fans perspective here rather than a players

    I know what you are talking from.

    I know lots of Mayo and Donegal fans as well, I have family in both and I also happen to live with somebody from each of the counties. And they'd laugh in your face if you tried to make these claims in front of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    jr86 wrote: »
    Scrap the Provincial and All Ireland Club Series. There are already way too many matches on the calendar, leave it at County Championships only

    The only thing stopping Dublin winning the next 5+ All Irelands is themselves

    that'd be unpopular alright


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    lawred2 wrote: »
    that'd be unpopular alright

    The thing is, it's not really an opinion. There are many who would consider it at least semi-factual.

    Mind you, I'm not one of them. I see a potential dip in form in 2/3 years, when the old guard gradually retire. I'm not convinced they can replace at the same level of quality, but I'm hopeful.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    Why couldnt they have lived through one 50 years ago?
    Re andy moran, the point was made about being a fan of a county, not a player. Fans dont get ai medals. Fans are neithrr winners nor runners up, they are just fans

    That is a tough one alright, MayoAreMagic. If the genie in the bottle presented you with the choice 6 years ago – that Mayo would win an All-Ireland in 2011, but that not much else would happen GAA wise for Mayo in the following 6 years, you’d probably take it. But looking back on the last 6 or so years, and the excitement of the many trips to Croke Park, and most of them coming away victorious. Watching the matches back again on TV. The social nights out on the eve of the big games, and again on the night of the games, the anticipation and being part of the chit chat leading up to the games. It would be awful hard to leave that behind, in return for 1 good year.
    Obviously, and as MayoAreMagic stated, this is from a fans perspective. The players would have a different take on it. They are not training and sacrificing year on year to be second best. But as fans, we have the luxury of being massively entertained over a long spell of time, and when that one disappointment comes per year, we can just get on with our lives. The players are different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭liam7831


    I think they should count a point as a goal and a goal as a point and the referee should be made wear a dress


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Jaden wrote: »
    The thing is, it's not really an opinion. There are many who would consider it at least semi-factual.

    Mind you, I'm not one of them. I see a potential dip in form in 2/3 years, when the old guard gradually retire. I'm not convinced they can replace at the same level of quality, but I'm hopeful.

    ah no I meant the doing away with provincial and all ireland club championships


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Why couldnt they have lived through one 50 years ago?
    Re andy moran, the point was made about being a fan of a county, not a player. Fans dont get ai medals. Fans are neithrr winners nor runners up, they are just fans

    of course they could have lived through one 50 years ago, but the vast majority would have lived through it 5 years ago and not have lived through it 50 years ago.

    As you say, this is the unpopular opinions thread so I'll leave it there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    I know what you are talking from.

    I know lots of Mayo and Donegal fans as well, I have family in both and I also happen to live with somebody from each of the counties. And they'd laugh in your face if you tried to make these claims in front of them.

    I can see how you get along.

    I wouldn't swap the last 7 years for a win 5 years ago, no chance. Because one off wins can happen, you can be lucky or whatever, go off celebrate, then go back to being insignificant and the thing moves on without you. What mayo have done is become a top footballing force, at the business end every year, with some of the best players in the game, and also given their fans an unbelievable journey that literally nobody else has had, Dublin included.

    Although maybe a more extreme example, it is similar to asking would you rather be leicester city or man utd?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    bruschi wrote: »
    of course they could have lived through one 50 years ago, but the vast majority would have lived through it 5 years ago and not have lived through it 50 years ago.

    As you say, this is the unpopular opinions thread so I'll leave it there.

    And both are of equal value to you in your next game...

    You aren't factoring in what mayo fans have experienced over all those years though, maybe you don't realise it. Had we won in 12, it would now be written off as a break we got where we managed to not get Kerry in the draw and we would be consigned to history, being the same old Mayo who just got a break.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will ye leave a small bit of the little shred of dignity the club player has alone. For **** sake and all that is good and holy i absolutely HATE Gaa fans that dont follow their club. These are the same gobsh1tes that bitch and bawl and moan and crib about the county players and the fat fcukers havent seen their own shoes in years never mind ever kicked a ball in anger.

    And i hate this type of thinking. Any time someone makes a suggestion, there is a d*ck measuring competition as to how involved they are in their club. Surely we can all see that there are people involved who havent a clue and so there is just as likely people not involved that could offer some good insight? Very often it is in fact a person on the outside of something that is the one who sees the thing in the most objective terms. But if you are overweight and havent hurled dont bother, right? Nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater



    I wouldn't swap the last 7 years for a win 5 years ago, no chance. Because one off wins can happen, you can be lucky or whatever, go off celebrate, then go back to being insignificant and the thing moves on without you. What mayo have done is become a top footballing force, at the business end every year, with some of the best players in the game, and also given their fans an unbelievable journey that literally nobody else has had, Dublin included.

    Would you swap 7 more years of getting to finals and being the nearly men for being All-Ireland Champions in 2018, and then falling back into the pack, fighting it out for provincial honours and being a solid top 5 or 6 team?

    I'd have to imagine most Mayo fans would take that at this stage....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Would you swap 7 more years of getting to finals and being the nearly men for being All-Ireland Champions in 2018, and then falling back into the pack, fighting it out for provincial honours and being a solid top 5 or 6 team?

    I'd have to imagine most Mayo fans would take that at this stage....

    I'm not sure. The devil is in the detail for this sort of thing. How long would they be a top 5-6 team for? Forever more? I would say no to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    I'm not sure. The devil is in the detail for this sort of thing. How long would they be a top 5-6 team for? Forever more? I would say no to that.

    If Mayo were champions and then slipped back into the chasing pack for, let's say 10 or 11 years?


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Remember im talking from a fans perspective here rather than a players

    Next we'll have you comparing the pain of a kick in the nuts to childbirth. ;)

    If you were from Galway and a hurling fan ( it's possible) you'd have a better understanding of the situation IMO, but if you are from Mayo and were not around when they won the last final then you've no basis to select between two things since you've only experienced one.

    That Donegal team had most of the components of a great team. Enough good forwards all hitting form at the right time.
    I won't win any friends from Donegal for this but it's relevant, they got nearly 20 years out of the 1992 win over Dublin. It didn't go until 2011 ( regardless of Championship wins for Dublin after 1992)
    They've lots of wind left in the sail for the 2012 win. Mayo people will just have to listen to Donegal people reminding them about 2012 until Mayo win an AI (and beat them along the way)


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,434 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Well its unpopular opinions man... That's the point.

    I know whst im saying is true because i know lots of mayo fans, and i know lots of donegal fans, and the mayo fans have gotten more out of their team in the last 7 years than the donegal fans.

    Remember im talking from a fans perspective here rather than a players


    I actually believe you on this one.

    I have consistently said that when it comes to the crunch that this Mayo team don't have the belief or the confidence to actually get over the line and win an All-Ireland. Part of me has always wondered why this is so.

    However, now, when I read your post, it is clear that there is no confidence among Mayo fans that they can actually win an All-Ireland, and they are happy to settle for nearlyman status. This attitude has obviously transmitted itself to the players. Where does the extra push come from if the fans are happy with their September day out in Dublin?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi



    Although maybe a more extreme example, it is similar to asking would you rather be leicester city or man utd?

    have Mayo won 13 championships in the last 25 years? How is it similar, in any shape or form? You might have some credence comparing it with Spurs maybe, no championship since the early 60's but are challenging now and mixing it in. I'd still rather have Leicesters win than be a challenger.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,014 ✭✭✭Hulk Hands


    Not sure how unpopular this is or whether it even belongs in this thread but here goes.

    As I Mayo fans I no longer am disappointed when they lose All Ireland finals.

    For the last 6 years they have supplied so much entertainment that the final result no longer matters so much.

    2017 really taught me that.

    Sure if they win I'll lose my mind, but for now I am grateful to be living and enjoying this era of Mayo football.

    Oh yeah and on a side note, I'm not sure what is more overrated, hurling or Ulster football.
    I believe you are actually better off being a Mayo fan than say a Donegal fan for example, i.e. that despite not winning the AI they are there at the business end every year, and their fans have had 7, action-packed, great years in a row, with more to come. I would consider this a better deal than winning an AI out of the blue and then kinda falling away into a team of yesterday.

    I have two Mayo college buddies that I met recently. Grand lads until they get together and become "mayo"..but anyway thats a different story. So I was talking to them both separately and they both told me (unprompted) that they really don't mind about the end result these days, that's it's just a joy to have a team contending and that's so much better than the vast majority can dream of.

    At a later stage of the night, they then retreated by themselves their own corner together, discussing the final with each other in length, every missed score, tactical mistake, and referee decision debated in earnest. One lad was nearly in tears and they were clearly not over it in any way.

    It's almost like a memo has gone out from Mayo supporters clubs telling them to toe this line about not caring about the end result when talking to outsiders, all the while pubs and shops and bookies up and down Mayo have them arguing about the final amongst themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Would you swap 7 more years of getting to finals and being the nearly men for being All-Ireland Champions in 2018, and then falling back into the pack, fighting it out for provincial honours and being a solid top 5 or 6 team?

    I'd have to imagine most Mayo fans would take that at this stage....

    Absolute no brainer.The players have given us fans so much enjoyment over the last number of years.

    But I'd still swap it all for a different result in the 2012 final.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    And both are of equal value to you in your next game...

    You aren't factoring in what mayo fans have experienced over all those years though, maybe you don't realise it. Had we won in 12, it would now be written off as a break we got where we managed to not get Kerry in the draw and we would be consigned to history, being the same old Mayo who just got a break.

    History wouldn't have cared a jot if we got a break in 2012.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I actually believe you on this one.

    I have consistently said that when it comes to the crunch that this Mayo team don't have the belief or the confidence to actually get over the line and win an All-Ireland. Part of me has always wondered why this is so.

    However, now, when I read your post, it is clear that there is no confidence among Mayo fans that they can actually win an All-Ireland, and they are happy to settle for nearlyman status. This attitude has obviously transmitted itself to the players. Where does the extra push come from if the fans are happy with their September day out in Dublin?

    The majority of Mayo fans aren't simply happy with their day out in September,simply not true.

    Tis a different matter whither there's insufficient belief in the players ability to close the deal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    If Mayo were champions and then slipped back into the chasing pack for, let's say 10 or 11 years?

    So to be clear, you are asking if I would give up being potential winners over the next 10 years, to one win and 11 years of not being in contention?

    Well obviously Id take the 7 years. Mayo could win 2-3 or more all Irelands in that time. At the end of the 7 years, I'm still 5 years shy of your 11 year absence... That's a strange question.

    Stoner wrote: »
    If you were from Galway and a hurling fan ( it's possible) you'd have a better understanding of the situation IMO, but if you are from Mayo and were not around when they won the last final then you've no basis to select between two things since you've only experienced one.

    That Donegal team had most of the components of a great team. Enough good forwards all hitting form at the right time.
    I won't win any friends from Donegal for this but it's relevant, they got nearly 20 years out of the 1992 win over Dublin. It didn't go until 2011 ( regardless of Championship wins for Dublin after 1992)
    They've lots of wind left in the sail for the 2012 win. Mayo people will just have to listen to Donegal people reminding them about 2012 until Mayo win an AI (and beat them along the way)

    Ive experienced the aftermath of all Ireland wins in other counties. It wasn't my county but I seen the joy it brought - something quite special. But that fades relatively quickly too though.

    True, Donegal did have a very good team, and deserved to win. But then we have some classing mayo as the 2nd best team of all time after this year's final. Mayo are a great team too, one of the greatest. A medal doesn't make them any better or worse.

    As for any Donegal person reminding me about 2012, I'd just pity them a bit if they did tbh. No more than mayo trying to rub in 2012 with Dublin, that is half a decade ago. If that is all you have, then you don't have much.

    bruschi wrote: »
    have Mayo won 13 championships in the last 25 years? How is it similar, in any shape or form? You might have some credence comparing it with Spurs maybe, no championship since the early 60's but are challenging now and mixing it in. I'd still rather have Leicesters win than be a challenger.

    Well I didn't pick spurs because they haven't been challenging every year for the last 7 odd years. I picked utd because although they haven't won anything in the recent past, they are one of the powers of the game, and if you were a fan, you would probably be more hopeful than a fan of leicester

    Hulk Hands wrote: »
    I have two Mayo college buddies that I met recently. Grand lads until they get together and become "mayo"..but anyway thats a different story. So I was talking to them both separately and they both told me (unprompted) that they really don't mind about the end result these days, that's it's just a joy to have a team contending and that's so much better than the vast majority can dream of.

    At a later stage of the night, they then retreated by themselves their own corner together, discussing the final with each other in length, every missed score, tactical mistake, and referee decision debated in earnest. One lad was nearly in tears and they were clearly not over it in any way.

    It's almost like a memo has gone out from Mayo supporters clubs telling them to toe this line about not caring about the end result when talking to outsiders, all the while pubs and shops and bookies up and down Mayo have them arguing about the final amongst themselves.

    Surely that is just a passionate interest in the game though? And surely they are entitled to want to have won the final when they are there? I don't see how one disproves the other? It is genuinely brilliant to be part of the journey mayo are on, sports fans don't get this very often the world over. But ffs, we can still want to win the final can't we? I don't really get the point, do you want them to not want to win it?
    As for the discussion, you lose an AI final by a point, in a game where two of the opposition players run into each other, get a free for it, and kick a point. Id imagine a bit of frustrated conversation is reasonable? What exactly are you expecting here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭CloughCasey1


    And i hate this type of thinking. Any time someone makes a suggestion, there is a d*ck measuring competition as to how involved they are in their club. Surely we can all see that there are people involved who havent a clue and so there is just as likely people not involved that could offer some good insight? Very often it is in fact a person on the outside of something that is the one who sees the thing in the most objective terms. But if you are overweight and havent hurled dont bother, right? Nonsense.

    Who said anything about how deeply anyone was involved in their club? If you havnt hurled and haven't worked your bollix off on the training field then watch the game and keep the gob shut because ya havent a clue what it takes to get there. Insight is one thing and a word in a lads ear is another but some lout screaming that so and so is a hoors abortion and should have been smothered at birth while, choking on their mighty mac drives me cuckoo.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    seligehgit wrote: »
    History wouldn't have cared a jot if we got a break in 2012.

    You are naive if you think that. A bad league in 2013 and the knives come out. Cork won sam in 2010, they still got the same bad treatment in the press afterwards that they got before it. A one off win is over rated. Id be of the thinking that mayo stay at the top and win multiple finals..


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