General Rugby Discussion II

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Manu Tuilagi has pulled out of the Leicester squad for their game against Racing. He has a tight calf.

Ah well.. that will be the evil spirits back again.

It would appear Laporte is back in front of authorities again in France, facing more allegations of corruption is best I can gather from google translate.

Article from l'equipe here

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would appear Laporte is back in front of authorities again in France, facing more allegations of corruption is best I can gather from google translate.

Article from l'equipe here

The examiner have an article on it

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby/police-raid-french-rugby-federation-headquarters-824286.html

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

The examiner have an article on it

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby/police-raid-french-rugby-federation-headquarters-824286.html

Jesus - this bit is a somewhat terrifying:

5 members of the extended Lomu family were freed from holding cells beneath the French Rugby headquarters. Prosecutors believe the 5 were being held on standby to accompany any French players cited during the 6 nations international window to their hearings. When they requested release they were told to speak French as they were in France. None of the captives spoke French

MarinersBlues

That has to be a Waterford Whispers type article.

irishbucsfan

MarinersBlues wrote: »

That has to be a Waterford Whispers type article.

Can't be

MarinersBlues

That has to be a Waterford Whispers type article.

Bogwoppit

5 members of the extended Lomu family were freed from holding cells beneath the French Rugby headquarters. Prosecutors believe the 5 were being held on standby to accompany any French players cited during the 6 nations international window to their hearings. When they requested release they were told to speak French as they were in France. None of the captives spoke French

What now? Where did that bit come from?

Interested Observer

Bogwoppit wrote: »

What now? Where did that bit come from?

It's there in the article.

Bogwoppit

Interested Observer wrote: »

Bogwoppit wrote: »

What now? Where did that bit come from?

It's there in the article.

No it's not? At least I don't see it.

Buer

Bogwoppit wrote: »

No it's not? At least I don't see it.

Direct link

Bogwoppit

Bogwoppit wrote: »

No it's not? At least I don't see it.

Did you click the 'continue article below' button?

sydthebeat

venjur......

Stheno

Bogwoppit wrote: »

No it's not? At least I don't see it.

It's Venjurs alternative facts

DGRulz

I guess in this day and age, thats one way to make sure people read the article and not just the headline ...

Podge_irl

It's a joke based around France's bizarre/morally corrupt use of the Lomu kids in their pitch for the rugby world cup.

prawnsambo

Great preparation for the French squad all the same. Police turn up while they are training. Lots of nervous players.

Burkie1203

Interesting

https://twitter.com/AlexMLowe/status/955711560852402178

LeinsterDub

I thought the Pro12/14 was a joke shop league because it didn't have relegation and relegation made the English strong?

thomond2006

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I thought the Pro12/14 was a joke shop league because it didn't have relegation and relegation made the English strong?

Depends on what day of the week it is.

prawnsambo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Interesting

https://twitter.com/AlexMLowe/status/955711560852402178

In other words a turkey votes against Christmas.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Depends on what day of the week it is.

Seems in reality people accuse fans of PRL of either arguing"

Relegation makes their teams stronger

Or:

Relegation makes their teams weaker

And in actuality very few people have said either, it's just a useful insult to use and then it goes into an echo chamber and perpetuates itself. I can't actually remember hearing anyone saying either of these things in years, and I don't remember who it was originally.

Similar to a story I heard recently about how when Charles Manson died there was a huge storm on Twitter of thousands of people complaining about how stupid it was to say "RIP Charlie Manson" and analysis showed it was all started by a single tweet. I feel like we see the same thing here except rather than a single tweet it's a couple of Neil Francis-esque hacks (probably Austin Healy or Nigel Wray or someone like that) who are being shadow-quoted ad nauseum.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Seems in reality people accuse fans of PRL of either arguing"

Relegation makes their teams stronger

Or:

Relegation makes their teams weaker

And in actuality very few people have said either, it's just a useful insult to use and then it goes into an echo chamber and perpetuates itself. I can't actually remember hearing anyone saying either of these things in years, and I don't remember who it was originally.

Similar to a story I heard recently about how when Charles Manson died there was a huge storm on Twitter of thousands of people complaining about how stupid it was to say "RIP Charlie Manson" and analysis showed it was all started by a single tweet. I feel like we see the same thing here except rather than a single tweet it's a couple of Neil Francis-esque hacks (probably Austin Healy or Nigel Wray or someone like that) who are being shadow-quoted ad nauseum.

On the contrary, I've seen it used in newspaper articles and in the comments section of newspaper articles very recently in relation to the poor outcomes for Premiership teams in Europe.

Mainly n the "Pro 14 teams can rest players because there is no relegation" sense.

Ben Kay wrote an aricle which has a table of Lions players' minutes played this season to illustrate this point.

Edit: He omitted to note that many of the Pro 14 Lions players have been injured and not been able to play.

pickarooney

It's brought up constantly on Reddit threads, but usually by people who could only dream of being right clever like what Neil Francis is.

Burkie1203

prawnsambo wrote: »

On the contrary, I've seen it used in newspaper articles and in the comments section of newspaper articles very recently in relation to the poor outcomes for Premiership teams in Europe.

Mainly n the "Pro 14 teams can rest players because there is no relegation" sense.

Ben Kay wrote an aricle which has a table of Lions players' minutes played this season to illustrate this point.

Edit: He omitted to note that many of the Pro 14 Lions players have been injured and not been able to play.

Saracens have stuck 50+ points on Northampton THREE times this season. Relegation isnt an issue for quite a few teams in AP who are in Champions cup. Its just a convenient excuse

We need to emphasise that we have promotion and relegation enshrined in our system and so people have access to the top level in England. That is not true, for example, in the RaboDirect PRO12.

"That access is there and history has shown clubs can come through and establish themselves. Premiership Rugby has been a success story and it has been a commercial success and everyone has shared in that.

This English qualification struggle is in danger of becoming part of the fabric of the sport and the explanations – some would call them excuses – have been trotted out ad nauseam. There are elements of truth in all of the reasons put forward for repeated Heineken Cup failures: financial problems surrounding salary caps and contract issues; the imbalance in squad sizes; the presence of relegation in England and its absence in the Celtic lands; the intense physicality – something spoken of with pride when it suits the people involved – of the week-by-week proceedings in the Premiership. But are these things really as they seem? Are we honestly claiming that squads in England are smaller and of lower quality than elsewhere? Does not the fear of relegation enhance the competitive mindset of any player worth his professional salt? Just wondering aloud.

One of these quotes is from an ex England RFU Head Coach, one from the CEO of PRL.

Sure, it was just an echo chamber in here, Ashton & McCafferty probably regularly read boards.ie rugby forum and were caught up in our fictitious storyline.

RTE said it - https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/1001/339898-heineken-cup-organisers-surprised-at-tv-row/

The English teams are unhappy that Celtic clubs can rest their players for domestic games as unlike in England, there is no relegation or promotion in the RaboDirect PRO 12 league.

Nice footnote here on a BBC article from the time. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/19580339

There is no relegation from the Pro12 and the English and French sides argue this gives Irish teams, in particular, an advantage, because they can rest players for league matches to keep them fresh for Europe without facing any real consequences.

The Roar.au must read here too - http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/01/24/english-clubs-failing-because-irish-have-it-too-easy/

Premier Rugby has long complained that they are hampered by a salary cap, and that the French effectively don’t seem to have one, which gives them larger squads. They also complain that with the absence of relegation in the Pro 12, there is less intensity, and less fatigue, as players are managed better and rested more frequently for the big European games. The Premiership persists with tradition and relegation.

Given we are so influential, perhaps we should start trying to get a Meme going? I thought we did well the last time - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22no+easy+games+in+the+premiership%22+rfu&dcr=0&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihy-_yv-7YAhXCzRQKHVSGBL0QpwUIIQ&biw=1745&bih=922
Hi Will! - http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/smcmahon/dont-exist-will-greenwood-no-easy-games-premiership/
Big Nick, how's it going? - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41748133
Dai my man, get Macken on the pitch would you? - https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-v-exeter-chiefs-revisiteddrawing-13083553

prawnsambo

This is the table I was talking about. In fairness, France got lumped in there too.

And in fairness to Ben Kay, he believed that Pro 14 clubs shouldn't have too much sympathy for their premiership counterparts given the feelings engendered during the great Heineken Cup Takeover.

As simple as that rugby is a squad game, and you need to protect your players better. The way to do this is to build a competitive squad, which means that you can afford to manage gametime of guys who also play international rugby.

If this is new news, I despair for the rugby brains in England.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

One of these quotes is from an ex England RFU Head Coach, one from the CEO of PRL.

Sure, it was just an echo chamber in here, Ashton & McCafferty probably regularly read boards.ie rugby forum and were caught up in our fictitious storyline.

RTE said it - https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/1001/339898-heineken-cup-organisers-surprised-at-tv-row/

Nice footnote here on a BBC article from the time. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/19580339


The Roar.au must read here too - http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/01/24/english-clubs-failing-because-irish-have-it-too-easy/


Given we are so influential, perhaps we should start trying to get a Meme going? I thought we did well the last time - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22no+easy+games+in+the+premiership%22+rfu&dcr=0&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihy-_yv-7YAhXCzRQKHVSGBL0QpwUIIQ&biw=1745&bih=922
Hi Will! - http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/smcmahon/dont-exist-will-greenwood-no-easy-games-premiership/
Big Nick, how's it going? - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41748133
Dai my man, get Macken on the pitch would you? - https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-v-exeter-chiefs-revisiteddrawing-13083553

So basically here are two people.

One of them is not even saying the same thing at all. The first quote does not say English teams are stronger or weaker for having relegation, just arguing the commercial benefits.

So it's actually one person, and although you've ommitted any sources for these quotes I assume it's Mark McCafferty in the second quote. Who most English fans I know think is a bit of a twat.

And then, somehow, further evidence is Irish media and Australian media. Where they're just engaging in the exact same sourceless repeating as Irish fans.

But it's constantly suggested this is some theory that everyone subscribes to and it's reference on places like this all the time. It's nowhere near as common as you would believe reading the comments of Irish fans. It's a bit sad to me.

If you want to take it up with RTÉ and BBC go right ahead.

We didn't invent this.

It was Ashton second btw, McCafferty owns the first.