General Rugby Discussion II

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

Sopoaga to Wasps confirmed.

Ulster miss the boat.

Would Ulster really have been in that market? I'd be surprised if Wasps weren't breaking the bank for him.

Dog Botherer

jr86 wrote: »

In fairness anyone would be hampered without a player of Vunipola's caliber

I agree, though with the Irish backrow we have the likes of Stander, Leavy, Van Der Flier, Ruddock (I could go on for a while here) all ready to step up when say O'Brien or Heaslip get injured, with very little drop in quality. In comparison England are very light at 6/7/8, especially considering their player base.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Would Ulster really have been in that market? I'd be surprised if Wasps weren't breaking the bank for him.

If anything happened to Barrett Sopoaga would have been the NZ starting 10. He'd be on stupid money. Definitely more than Piatau.

DGRulz

prawnsambo wrote: »

Would Ulster really have been in that market? I'd be surprised if Wasps weren't breaking the bank for him.

Wasps broke the bank a long time ago ...

Interested Observer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

I agree, though with the Irish backrow we have the likes of Stander, Leavy, Van Der Flier, Ruddock (I could go on for a while here) all ready to step up when say O'Brien or Heaslip get injured, with very little drop in quality. In comparison England are very light at 6/7/8, especially considering their player base.

They're not really imo, there are a few players such as Sam Simmons or Matt Kvesic or a few others who Jones has been very reluctant to have a look at.

Bridge93

I'd be playing Kvesic given the lack of 7s and Jones' views on Robshaw there

Dog Botherer

Interested Observer wrote: »

They're not really imo, there are a few players such as Sam Simmons or Matt Kvesic or a few others who Jones has been very reluctant to have a look at.

Simmonds was in the Autumn squad, no? Kvesic might get a go, they have very few options, like I said. With Ireland though there's around 10 international quality backrows, England don't have anything near that.

MDunne14

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Simmonds was in the Autumn squad, no? Kvesic might get a go, they have very few options, like I said. With Ireland though there's around 10 international quality backrows, England don't have anything near that.

Sam underhill , don Armand , Dave ewers, robshaw , maro , lawes , simmonds , Ben & Tom curry , mercer , Michael Rhodes , Callum Clark , Jackson Wray , Tom Wood could all play 6/7 for England if they got a shot and Would all probably do a decent job to be fair

sydthebeat

MDunne14 wrote: »

Sam underhill , don Armand , Dave ewers, robshaw , maro , lawes , simmonds , Ben & Tom curry , mercer , Michael Rhodes , Callum Clark , Jackson Wray , Tom Wood could all play 6/7 for England if they got a shot and Would all probably do a decent job to be fair

I know matt garvey is 30 now but he's playing great rugby this season and I wouldn't be at all shocked if he got a wild card call up

Dog Botherer

MDunne14 wrote: »

Sam underhill , don Armand , Dave ewers, robshaw , maro , lawes , simmonds , Ben & Tom curry , mercer , Michael Rhodes , Callum Clark , Jackson Wray , Tom Wood could all play 6/7 for England if they got a shot and Would all probably do a decent job to be fair

Hardly an intimidating bunch there.

I dunno, I reckon a guy who should still be in prison for vicious assault (Callum Clark) is pretty intimidating.

Dog Botherer

Deleted User wrote: »

I dunno, I reckon a guy who should still be in prison for vicious assault (Callum Clark) is pretty intimidating.

A brain dead thug does not a good rugby player make (e.g. Will Skelton).

jr86

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Hardly an intimidating bunch there.

I'm sure plenty of English fans say the same about Ireland's pick. The difference is both respective fans see much more of their own players

You can only play 3 and a combination if fit of Vunipola, Robshaw/Itoje and Underhill for the World Cup - with back-up like those listed above, is formidable any way you look at it.

An Itoje, Robshaw and Simmonds combination is still extremely capable for the present moment in time

errlloyd

Yeah, there are a lot of people on this thread and others who are probably guilty overestimating our depth and underestimating other countries. Wales, England and France have very good depth in the backrow. None of us can replace the likes of SOB, Faletau or Vunipola easily, but we can still throw out very very good alternatives.

Interested Observer

Agree with the posts above. If you asked a casual English rugby fan to give us their thoughts on Dan Leavy I'm betting most would say 'who?'.

razorblunt

sydthebeat wrote: »

I know matt garvey is 30 now but he's playing great rugby this season and I wouldn't be at all shocked if he got a wild card call up

I disagree, time and time again it's been proven that players can be in great form in the AP and never make the step up to International rugby. Garvey is completely in that category.


Ewers and Simmons would be good choices, Ewers was a one man wrecking ball against Montpellier and Simmons just returned too.

razorblunt

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Hardly an intimidating bunch there.

Same goes for anyone looking in on the likes of VdF, Leavy and Conan. We all know how good they are, fans of other teams would be delighted to see a backrow containing those names face off against them.

Bazzo

Jones staying with England til 2021.

http://www.the42.ie/eddie-jones-new-england-deal-3801832-Jan2018/

sydthebeat

razorblunt wrote: »

I disagree, time and time again it's been proven that players can be in great form in the AP and never make the step up to International rugby. Garvey is completely in that category.
.

im not sure what your disagreeing with.
i was saying that, in view of his current form, i wouldnt be shocked if he got a call up.

are you saying that you would be shocked if he got a call up, or that he hasnt been good enough to get one?

Jones hasnt been totally against calling up older players for this firsts cap.
He capped Don Armand and ben teo at 28.

I do think that the boat has sailed on an international career for him, but im thinking that if Jones wanted a kind of 5.5 player he would be in the conversation.... injury assisted of course.

Bazzo

sydthebeat wrote: »

im not sure what your disagreeing with.
i was saying that, in view of his current form, i wouldnt be shocked if he got a call up.

are you saying that you would be shocked if he got a call up, or that he hasnt been good enough to get one?

Jones hasnt been totally against calling up older players for this firsts cap.
He capped Don Armand and ben teo at 28.

I do think that the boat has sailed on an international career for him, but im thinking that if Jones wanted a kind of 5.5 player he would be in the conversation.... injury assisted of course.

Surely if Jones wanted a 5.5 in the back row he'd just play Itoje or Lawes there?

Bazzo

Not sure where the right place for this is so I'll just stick it here.

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/953594889845067776

razorblunt

sydthebeat wrote: »

im not sure what your disagreeing with.
i was saying that, in view of his current form, i wouldnt be shocked if he got a call up.

are you saying that you would be shocked if he got a call up, or that he hasnt been good enough to get one?

Jones hasnt been totally against calling up older players for this firsts cap.
He capped Don Armand and ben teo at 28.

I do think that the boat has sailed on an international career for him, but im thinking that if Jones wanted a kind of 5.5 player he would be in the conversation.... injury assisted of course.

Ah right, I thought you were pushing him for selection rather than a "here's why he might get capped".

I don't think he's been good enough, don't think he's International standard at all.

Turnipman

sydthebeat wrote: »

I know matt garvey is 30 now but he's playing great rugby this season and I wouldn't be at all shocked if he got a wild card call up

Agree with your general point re. his form this season, but Garvey (along with the rest of the Bath pack) was blown out of the water last Friday night by the Scarlets. Also, he played for a losing England A team against Ireland A a few years ago and didn't stand out.

So I can't see him getting in.

sydthebeat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJJWIaKecSo

gotta love the japs !!!

Turnipman

sydthebeat wrote: »

gotta love the japs !!!

Enjoyed the Japanese pronunciation of "All Bracks"!

Dog Botherer

Fair enough points lads, I might be missing some good players in the Aviva, don't see half as much of it as I'd like to. I will say though that listening to the Blood & Mud Podcast (which I highly recommend), who mainly focus on English and Welsh rugby, they're far more excited by the likes of Leavy and Conan than any up and coming English or Welsh backrowers.

Some of that might be due to the crippling mediocrity of English teams in Europe this season, to be fair.

Burkie1203

Liam messam off to Toulon next season.

sydthebeat

Taken from the connacht thread

https://www.bristolrugby.co.uk/news/signedupsaturday-the-wrap-up/

That's the bones of a good squad that lam will have for next season. Some great additions in those nine namely stirzacker, afoa, muldowney and thacker.

They could have a starting 8-15 of
Luatua
Stirzacker
Madigan
Morohan
Piutau
Leiau
Edwards
Piutau

prawnsambo

sydthebeat wrote: »

Taken from the connacht thread

https://www.bristolrugby.co.uk/news/signedupsaturday-the-wrap-up/

That's the bones of a good squad that lam will have for next season. Some great additions in those nine namely stirzacker, afoa, muldowney and thacker.

They could have a starting 8-15 of
Luatua
Stirzacker
Madigan
Morohan
Piutau
Leiau
Edwards
Piutau

Two Piutaus? That's not fair. :eek:

Edit: Looked him up, Siale's a good bit older than Charles.

Bazzo

prawnsambo wrote: »

Two Piutaus? That's not fair. :eek:

Edit: Looked him up, Siale's a good bit older than Charles.

They played together at Wasps too.

Clegg

Manu Tuilagi has pulled out of the Leicester squad for their game against Racing. He has a tight calf.