JFK Files

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Anyone with a brain can see Oswald was not a lonely nut. He was travelling to the Soviet Union. A journalist reported citizens needed state department approval to travel to the Soviet Union during the cold war. Can't just buy a plane ticket and travel, you needed permission. This is my opinion leads credence Oswald was a spy for an agency in America. Why would you classify Oswald tax records? And he happens to find work in the Texas Book Depository?

Yes just happened like that. Oswald as a Soviet spy is too obvious. The KGB would never have done it.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They say the camera does not lie, why did people in same car order body guards away? They usually run behind car or ride on bumper, they were hand signalled away, the body guards looked baffled , totally bemused.
Video also shows the driver of JFKs car turn around and shoot him, all clear as day on film.
I guess the camera does lie ?

It doesn't. Old grainy Zapruder footage - the footage that was knocking around for years was a copy of a copy - might show odd movements but it clearly wasn't him.

Whiplash85

tigger123 wrote: »

The US Government could realise complete, unredacted files that comprehensively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Oswald did it, and it wouldn't convince the conspiracy theorists.

They want to believe.[/quote

Jesus Christ. They dont have one scintilla of evidence Oswald did it. Do you not think they would if they could?

The Nal

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. They dont have one scintilla of evidence Oswald did it.

Apart from the murder weapon. And fingerprints. And motive. And his presence in the building. And his escape. And eyewitnesses.

Charmeleon

Whiplash85 wrote: »

tigger123 wrote: »

The US Government could realise complete, unredacted files that comprehensively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Oswald did it, and it wouldn't convince the conspiracy theorists.

They want to believe.

Jesus Christ. They dont have one scintilla of evidence Oswald did it. Do you not think they would if they could?

There’s a huge amount of evidence. For a start, when Oswald’s wife Marina heard JFK had been shot, she went to look for his rifle to see if it was where he stored it and found it missing. If his wife thinks he’s a total nut capable of carrying out an assasination like that, why shouldn’t you? He had left his wedding ring and practically all his money in her room that morning.

She already knew he was planning assasinations. He had left her instructions on where to find the local jail and who would take care of her if he was caught during his attempt to assasinate General Walker shortly before the JFK visit. The same rifle found in the book depository was used in that assasination attempt.

Several witnesses saw Oswald with a long package that morning which he claimed were curtain poles for his lodging room. There was already a rail in his room.

He had the same handgun that shot officer Tippit, shortly after the assasination, when he was arrested in the movie theatre, he tried to shoot the arresting officers with it.

One witness said to the person with them that morning ‘do you want to see a secret service agent’ after spotting a man described very similar to Oswald standing in the 6th floor window with a rifle. The people in the floor below heard the three shots and three bullet cases hit the floor. Oswald was the only person in the building who left before the police did a headcount.

There’s so much more but I don’t want to spend all day typing it out.

tomwaterford

The Nal wrote: »

Apart from the murder weapon. And fingerprints. And motive. And his presence in the building. And his escape. And eyewitnesses.

His handwriting on the mail order form.for ordering the rifle aswel

The Nal

tomwaterford wrote: »

His handwriting on the mail order form.for ordering the rifle aswel

And a photo of him holding the rifle with his signature on the back!

dr.fuzzenstein

G'way with your hard, irrefutable evidence, it's much sexier to believe in a decades long global cover-up that requires the collusion of thousands of people and somehow involves the Illuminati and aliens.
You know, like flat earthers and other assorted nuts that believe the moon is a spaceship or the Queen is a Lizard being.
Those crazies used to sit in the corner of the pub muttering to themselves, but with the internet they have found a global platform to spread their luncay.
Elvis did it.

dr.fuzzenstein

Did we have this yet?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cruz-shocker-dad-killed-jfk-hes-secretly-elvis-jimmy-hoffas-buried-in-his-backyard-2016-05-03

Obligatory clickbait title:
Ted Cruz admits his Father did it!

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Did we have this yet?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cruz-shocker-dad-killed-jfk-hes-secretly-elvis-jimmy-hoffas-buried-in-his-backyard-2016-05-03

Obligatory clickbait title:
Ted Cruz admits his Father did it!

I think I lost around 50 IQ from opening that link... How do people read such nonsense.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Yes just happened like that. Oswald as a Soviet spy is too obvious. The KGB would never have done it.

]

KGB thought Oswald was a spy when he visited the Soviet Union. They kept a close on eye on him. They were trying to figure out why this American was trying to defect?

Charmeleon

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

KGB thought Oswald was a spy when he visited the Soviet Union. They kept a close on eye on him. They were trying to figure out why this American was trying to defect?

He almost killed himself in Russia though when his defection attempt was first refused, was found unconscious in a bathtub after slitting his wrist. Not a great spying tactic to kill yourself before you can find out anything worth passing on.

Cheerful Spring

Whiplash85 wrote: »

tigger123 wrote: »

The US Government could realise complete, unredacted files that comprehensively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Oswald did it, and it wouldn't convince the conspiracy theorists.

They want to believe.[/quote

Jesus Christ. They dont have one scintilla of evidence Oswald did it. Do you not think they would if they could?

The fact the CIA and FBI stopped files from coming out days ago is a clearly a sign Oswald was not alone in the killing of Kennedy. You don't go this much trouble to cover up details about one man who carried out a shooting 50 years ago..

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The fact the CIA and FBI stopped files from coming out days ago is a clearly a sign Oswald was not alone in the killing of Kennedy. You don't go this much trouble to cover up details about one man who carried out a shooting 50 years ago..

Oswald did it and he acted alone. If it was a conspiracy he would have been picked up outside the book depository, shot and buried in the middle of the desert. Instead he was left to roam the streets, killed a cop and tried to shoot his way out of a movie theatre when cornered.

Whiplash85

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Oswald did it and he acted alone. If it was a conspiracy he would have been picked up outside the book depository, shot and buried in the middle of the desert. Instead he was left to roam the streets, killed a cop and tried to shoot his way out of a movie theatre when cornered.

Yea but he was shot in an underground basement of a police station in Dallas by Jack Ruby. A degenerate pimp who suddenly got a sense of nationalistic pride. Yeaaaa riiiiight.

Tipsy McSwagger

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yea but he was shot in an underground basement of a police station in Dallas by Jack Ruby. A degenerate pimp who suddenly got a sense of nationalistic pride. Yeaaaa riiiiight.

What was potential assassin Ruby doing 5 minutes before he shot Oswald?

fergiesfolly

I personally think that Oswald was used either by the mafia or pro Cubans to assassinate Kennedy.
I suspect that law inforcement agency(s) in the US may have had previous information on it, but decided it was in their interest or the national interest not to act.
I'd imagine that a the files the FBI and CIA want to keep closed are the ones that contain information on contacts or resources that came under scrutiny under the investigation and had nothing to do with the assassination itself.

branie2

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

What was potential assassin Ruby doing 5 minutes before he shot Oswald?

posting a postal order at the post office

Tipsy McSwagger

branie2 wrote: »

posting a postal order at the post office

Exactly, wiring some money to one of his strippers. This is the only reason why he even left his apartment that morning.

tomwaterford

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yea but he was shot in an underground basement of a police station in Dallas by Jack Ruby. A degenerate pimp who suddenly got a sense of nationalistic pride. Yeaaaa riiiiight.

Your the lad who thinks there's no evidence Oswald did it to begin with??

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

KGB thought Oswald was a spy when he visited the Soviet Union. They kept a close on eye on him. They were trying to figure out why this American was trying to defect?

Initially yeah. But they figured out pretty quickly that he wasn't a spy and the info he gave them wasn't anything they didn't already know. They let him stay after the suicide attempt because an American dying in Russia wouldn't have looked good.

Elmer Blooker

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Yea but he was shot in an underground basement of a police station in Dallas by Jack Ruby. A degenerate pimp who suddenly got a sense of nationalistic pride. Yeaaaa riiiiight.

Ruby who shot Oswald live on TV with the words ... " You killed my president you rat!"
Yep, Oswald was definitely acting alone.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Initially yeah. But they figured out pretty quickly that he wasn't a spy and the info he gave them wasn't anything they didn't already know. They let him stay after the suicide attempt because an American dying in Russia wouldn't have looked good.

Circumstantial evidence Oswald was a Spy is overwhelming. Even 4 of 7 men chairing the Warren Commission had a problem believing Oswald was a lone gun man and acted alone. They voiced those concerns years later.

This is even recent
Director McCone was "complicit" in a Central Intelligence Agency “benign cover-up” by withholding information from the Warren Commission, according to a report by the CIA Chief Historian David Robarge released to the public in 2014.[24] According to this CIA report, CIA officers had been instructed to give only "passive, reactive, and selective" assistance to the commission, in order to keep the commission focused on "what the Agency believed at the time was the ‘best truth’ — that Lee Harvey Oswald, for as yet undetermined motives, had acted alone in killing John Kennedy." [B]The CIA was also covering up evidence that the CIA may have been in communication with Oswald before 1963, according to the CIA findings.[/B][24]

The dairies of Douglas DeWitt Bazata a famous highly respected cold war spy, tell an interesting story. The part about Oswald being unstable in my view. to be truth in this the more we look at Oswald today!

He Wrote
.Dallas was selected as the location for the assassination “as far back as 1961,” according to Bazata, since it was an anti-Kennedy “hothouse for murder” with one of the most corrupt police departments in the country.

“ordered five triggers” for the assassination, with a second commander-manager (COs) standing behind each gunman, according to Bazata’s diaries. And if anything went wrong, each CO had a “cyanide inflictor,” unavailable even to the CIA at the time, that would kill instantly.

The shooters included Dussaq, Lee Harvey Oswald, an assassin code-named “Piatogorsky” and two unidentified CIA hitmen. Bazata’s diaries also cite other fringe players in the plot, including backup shooters, five body doubles for Oswald and random “pointers” and “shouters” designed to confuse police and witnesses.

according to Bazata’s account, Oswald fired the first shot from above and behind Kennedy’s lurching motorcade. Wilcox notes that Bazata’s account then “deviates from the standard,” adding that Dussaq didn’t trust or want to include Oswald, the “unstable” former Marine.

This is just some of clues what the CIA and FBI knew and i have feeling some of files kept back would have revealed Oswald was not a lone wolf, but had help.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This is just some of clues what the CIA and FBI knew and i have feeling some of files kept back would have revealed Oswald was not a lone wolf, but had help.

The CIA or whoever planned the assassination for two years and then when it was go time they gave the main assassin a $12 rifle with only 4 bullets in it?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Circumstantial evidence Oswald was a Spy is overwhelming.

Is it? What circumstantial evidence? The CIA and KGB didn't recruit or send out spies in such an obvious manner.

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Oswald did it and he acted alone. If it was a conspiracy he would have been picked up outside the book depository, shot and buried in the middle of the desert. Instead he was left to roam the streets, killed a cop and tried to shoot his way out of a movie theatre when cornered.

They murdered him the next day, he did not get time to speak again. He was not roaming the streets he probably trying to get away and policeman seeing him and stopping him for questioning probably messed up his getaway plan.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

The CIA or whoever planned the assassination for two years and then when it was go time they gave the main assassin a $12 rifle with only 4 bullets in it?



Is it? What circumstantial evidence? The CIA and KGB didn't recruit or send out spies in such an obvious manner.

If there is a multiple shooters Oswald not using a the greatest rifle for the assassination is meaningless. Maybe Oswald was used to cover their tracks and getaway?

Top secret deposition by ex-CIA chief Richard Helms is another sign the CIA knew Oswald.

He was asked "Is there any information involved with the assassination of President Kennedy which in any way shows that Lee Harvey Oswald was in some way a CIA agent or an agent…”

His answer was redacted and blackened out a sure sign he said Yes and not No.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They murdered him the next day, he did not get time to speak again. He was not roaming the streets he probably trying to get away and policeman seeing him and stopping him for questioning probably messed up his getaway plan.

"They" murdered him two days later. After he had already been questioned by the police for hours and hours. With a bullet in the stomach (not a guaranteed kill) from a small handgun. By an assassin who was in a queue in Western Union an hour after Oswalds scheduled transfer time and who left his dog in the car.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

"They" murdered him two days later. After he had already been questioned by the police for hours and hours. With a bullet in the stomach (not a guaranteed kill) from a small handgun. By an assassin who was in a queue in Western Union an hour after Oswalds scheduled transfer time and who left his dog in the car.

Either way he was stuck in police cell and only met with police officers and other people who had access to him. They hardly going to break in and murder him with police officers watching. Even in the JFK files just released. The FBI received a telephone call from a man saying he was in a committee organised to kill Oswald and was warning them he was going to be killed. Even after this Ruby attacked Oswald and murdered him.

Cheerful Spring

Jack Ruby, after shooting Oswald,. even says people in high positions will never let the true facts out and they put him in the position he was at. If Ruby was a disgruntled fan of Kennedy and killed Oswald for revenge, why is he even talking like this? Never made sense a well to do nightclub owner would shoot Oswald for revenge.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Either way he was stuck in police cell and only met with police officers and other people who had access to him.

Huh? He was paraded out in front of the press loads of times over the weekend.

Even John Peel got in.



And heres Jack Ruby in the police station on the Friday night in the same room as Oswald. Armed. Anyone couldve shot Oswald at any time.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Jack Ruby, after shooting Oswald,. even says people in high positions will never let the true facts out and they put him in the position he was at. If Ruby was a disgruntled fan of Kennedy and killed Oswald for revenge, why is he even talking like this? Never made sense a well to do nightclub owner would shoot Oswald for revenge.

Youre just cherry picking there.

Read Rubys testimony to the Warren Commission where he states he wasn't part of any conspiracy and he wanted to go to Washington to tell that to Presisent Johnson.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Youre just cherry picking there.

Read Rubys testimony to the Warren Commission where he states he wasn't part of any conspiracy and he wanted to go to Washingron to tell that to Presisent Johnson.

Too late his revealed a conspiracy on the video i posted. 4 of the 7 Warren commission commissioners doubted the official narrative years later. Mainly due to Political pressure they gave the American public a false narrative.