Lunchtime Live with Ciara Kelly [Mod warning post #1]

Sleeper12

ButtersSuki wrote:

Not the best example to give really is it given how he handled the Peter Casey interview?

I didn't see the interview as I don't like tuberty. I've read Casey say that he was set up & he went too hard on him but I've also read plenty of people who thought that he went too soft on him. At least the station isn't getting sued due to his inexperience, unlike Newstalk.

Tell me how

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I didn't see the interview as I don't like tuberty. I've read Casey say that he was set up & he went too hard on him but I've also read plenty of people who thought that he went too soft on him. At least the station isn't getting sued due to his inexperience, unlike Newstalk.

RTE were sued over Pat Kenny reading a tweet. Do you think he was inexperienced?

Redneck Culchie

I think the smart move would be not to discuss it, although technically the trial has collapsed the full details on a potential retrial aren't available.

I believe the legal eagles are not happy at all with the frenzy over the other rape case ie the inaccurate reporting and attacks on the barrister. Most people really have no idea of the evidence or details of that case yet rant like they do.

Redneck Culchie

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I didn't see the interview as I don't like tuberty. I've read Casey say that he was set up & he went too hard on him but I've also read plenty of people who thought that he went too soft on him. At least the station isn't getting sued due to his inexperience, unlike Newstalk.

Any suggestion Tubridy was soft on Casey is laughable, at least 500 complaints went to RTE including my own. The BAI complaints on that incident are pending, he will have to answer on that.

The Bishop Basher

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

I believe the legal eagles are not happy at all with the frenzy over the other rape case ie the inaccurate reporting and attacks on the barrister. Most people really have no idea of the evidence or details of that case yet rant like they do.

All the legal experts are over on the Coppinger thread fixing the world for us all..

I find it difficult to see how Ciara can avoid this given it’s in her comfort zone with regard to topics but I agree it needs to be handled objectively and sensitively, neither of which Ciara would be known for.

anthonyjmaher

It's about time something like this has happened. For the past year we have been fed this narrative that if a woman takes a case against a man then she should automatically be believed i.e. men are guilty simply because they are men not because of the evidence brought before the court. In any balanced context this would be considered discrimination, but in Newstalk this is somehow considered to be justice.

Sleeper12

Tell me how wrote:

RTE were sued over Pat Kenny reading a tweet. Do you think he was inexperienced?

RTE were seued for not verifing that it was a genuine tweet. That's the producer at fault.
Pat Kenny was not sued

Sleeper12

Redneck Culchie wrote:

Any suggestion Tubridy was soft on Casey is laughable, at least 500 complaints went to RTE including my own. The BAI complaints on that incident are pending, he will have to answer on that.

Now we just have to wait for the BAI to rule on it. You might be disappointed with the result though

Sleeper12

anthonyjmaher wrote:

It's about time something like this has happened. For the past year we have been fed this narrative that if a woman takes a case against a man then she should automatically be believed i.e. men are guilty simply because they are men not because of the evidence brought before the court. In any balanced context this would be considered discrimination, but in Newstalk this is somehow considered to be justice.

You do know why the trial collapsed right?

Tell me how

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

I think the smart move would be not to discuss it, although technically the trial has collapsed the full details on a potential retrial aren't available.

I believe the legal eagles are not happy at all with the frenzy over the other rape case ie the inaccurate reporting and attacks on the barrister. Most people really have no idea of the evidence or details of that case yet rant like they do.

Yeah. Ranting without evidence is frustrating. Really frustrating.

Redneck Culchie

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you put up a link to it ? Thanks

http://web.archive.org/web/20181124062027/https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/nicola-anderson-a-tipping-point-has-come-from-highprofile-cases-shining-painful-spotlights-37560833.html

Link to the original article now removed. Appalling journalism by Nicola Anderson and the Indo she should be sacked and the editor should be forced to answer for letting it through.


More evidence Irish journalism is a cesspit.

Redneck Culchie

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

http://web.archive.org/web/20181124062027/https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/nicola-anderson-a-tipping-point-has-come-from-highprofile-cases-shining-painful-spotlights-37560833.html

Link to the original article now removed. Appalling journalism by Nicola Anderson and the Indo she should be sacked and the editor should be forced to answer for letting it through.


More evidence Irish journalism is a cesspit.

The Irish Independent and impartiality are a contradiction. Nicola Anderson couldn't help wading in, has adopted a loftier than thou attitude her entire career. If there is any justice, she'll be shown the door in short order.

Tell me how

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

http://web.archive.org/web/20181124062027/https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/nicola-anderson-a-tipping-point-has-come-from-highprofile-cases-shining-painful-spotlights-37560833.html

Link to the original article now removed. Appalling journalism by Nicola Anderson and the Indo she should be sacked and the editor should be forced to answer for letting it through.


More evidence Irish journalism is a cesspit.

I don't agree that Irish Journalism is entirely a cesspit. But that is an example of shocking judgement on behalf of the journalist and the paper to publish that while a trial is ongoing.

There was zero doubt as to the case being referred to given the description of the defendant.

Tell me how

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

It's about time something like this has happened. For the past year we have been fed this narrative that if a woman takes a case against a man then she should automatically be believed i.e. men are guilty simply because they are men not because of the evidence brought before the court. In any balanced context this would be considered discrimination, but in Newstalk this is somehow considered to be justice.

The statistics show that the vast majority of people who feel they have been assaulted or abused do not see the perpetrator convicted for their crimes. The last year has shown this come to light more publicly and with some high profile cases highlighting the experience of victims in trying to seek justice.

I understand completely the difficulty and impact for the defendant if they are indeed innocent but again, the statistics would indicate that in the majority of cases, it is the complainant who ends up suffering more long term.

I don't think Newstalks approach on this is any different to RTE or Today FM in how they cover such stories.

The article being discussed here was certainly a step in the wrong direction and I suspect the victim in that case feels even more mistreated now than previously.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

The statistics show that the vast majority of people who feel they have been assaulted or abused do not see the perpetrator convicted for their crimes.

This statement implies that Ireland as a country endorses rape and fails to prosecute those who commit it.
If you step back from rape you will find that our criminal justice system is extremely lenient on the whole and offenders of all types are not sufficiently discouraged from re-offending due to a largely toothless legal system which is in itself a symptom of an over crowded prison system which needs to be improved (new large scale prisons built).
The notion that rape is alone as an offence in Ireland for being leniently prosecuted isn't accurate.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

This statement implies that Ireland as a country endorses rape and fails to prosecute those who commit it.
If you step back from rape you will find that our criminal justice system is extremely lenient on the whole and offenders of all types are not sufficiently discouraged from re-offending due to a largely toothless legal system which is in itself a symptom of an over crowded prison system which needs to be improved (new large scale prisons built).
The notion that rape is alone as an offence in Ireland for being leniently prosecuted isn't accurate.

I'm simply saying what the statistics indicate. If you want to infer from that that Ireland endorses rape, that is your choice. I am not suggesting that all.

I am suggesting that the experience of victims suffering is statistically greater than the number of defendants who suffer through being wrongly accused.

And I understand entirely that if I or one of my friends was that defendant, we would feel extremely hard done by. Buy if I, or one of my friends was the victim, we would be statistically more likely to feel hard done by.

I hope I never find out exactly what it is like for either to go through such a process.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm simply saying what the statistics indicate. If you want to infer from that that Ireland endorses rape, that is your choice. I am not suggesting that all.

I am suggesting that the experience of victims suffering is statistically greater than the number of defendants who suffer through being wrongly accused.

And I understand entirely that if I or one of my friends was that defendant, we would feel extremely hard done by. Buy if I, or one of my friends was the victim, we would be statistically more likely to feel hard done by.

I hope I never find out exactly what it is like for either to go through such a process.

You're making a point that you feel rape goes to some extent unpunished.
I can only read what you've written and it was a post that took into account one set of statistics without reference to how they belong inside a larger set of statistics.

As for the rest of the above, its all very emotive and aiming for the lowest common denominator. We can all empathise with victims of any crime, unless we're clinical psychopaths.

I don't think you were presenting a fair analysis of the situation and how it relates to criminal prosecution in general in this country. You painted a picture of a country with a legal system which takes a lenient or disinterested attitude to the crime of rape and then proceed to attempt to pull on people's heart strings.

Tell me how

nullzero wrote: »

You're making a point that you feel rape goes to some extent unpunished.
I can only read what you've written and it was a post that took into account one set of statistics without reference to how they belong inside a larger set of statistics.

As for the rest of the above, its all very emotive and aiming for the lowest common denominator. We can all empathise with victims of any crime, unless we're clinical psychopaths.

I don't think you were presenting a fair analysis of the situation and how it relates to criminal prosecution in general in this country. You painted a picture of a country with a legal system which takes a lenient or disinterested attitude to the crime of rape and then proceed to attempt to pull on people's heart strings.

What? I'm not aiming for anything.

I'm countering a view that it's about time this happened as there is a perception that courts are moving to a position where all women are being believed irrespective of evidence.

The statistics indicate that for every defendant who is falsely accused, there are many many more victims who have to deal with having been raped and their perpetrator getting away with it. That is a fact.
And I am in no way suggesting the scales need to be balanced through false or weak evidence or an assumption of guilt from the outset.

The discussion related to a particular crime type. If you want to discuss broader justice practices in Ireland then that is reasonable, but it is a different discussion.

meeeeh

I don't understand this thread. Are people asking why a case that shouldn't really be covered wasn't covered on the show? Or should it be covered in some way to even more endanger the chance of fair trial. I never heard opinion being given on a rape trial before it was concluded on Newstalk. Partly because Frank Greaney is a good reporter from the courts.

I really don't know what relevance does the article have except some here gleefully celebrating that there was no judgement and possible rapist could be left out of prison. If that makes you happy fine but I still don't get it how this has any relevance for the actual radio show.

nullzero

Tell me how wrote: »

What? I'm not aiming for anything.

I'm countering a view that it's about time this happened as there is a perception that courts are moving to a position where all women are being believed irrespective of evidence.

The statistics indicate that for every defendant who is falsely accused, there are many many more victims who have to deal with having been raped and their perpetrator getting away with it. That is a fact.
And I am in no way suggesting the scales need to be balanced through false or weak evidence or an assumption of guilt from the outset.

The discussion related to a particular crime type. If you want to discuss broader justice practices in Ireland then that is reasonable, but it is a different discussion.

You don't counter lies and half truths with half truths.
The notion that women are believed and men are not believed is incorrect.
Your point painted this country as being easy on rape.
In the middle there is a system which allows for a fair hearing and is not biased in either direction.
Nobody is being persecuted even if you or others wish to believe so.

Redneck Culchie

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't understand this thread. Are people asking why a case that shouldn't really be covered wasn't covered on the show? Or should it be covered in some way to even more endanger the chance of fair trial. I never heard opinion being given on a rape trial before it was concluded on Newstalk. Partly because Frank Greaney is a good reporter from the courts.

I really don't know what relevance does the article have except some here gleefully celebrating that there was no judgement and possible rapist could be left out of prison. If that makes you happy fine but I still don't get it how this has any relevance for the actual radio show.

Absurd. Nobody is celebrating. The defendant is also a victim here who will have to go through it all over again and you are assuming his guilt. He has the right to be innocent until proven guilty. It certainly doesn't suit the alternative universe you and your comrades like Coppinger want of kangaroo courts and all men guilty without trial.

There is a cohort of women now who because of their own personal failures want to blame it all on men. It has never been a better time in history to be a woman in Ireland. The childlike behaviour of Irish feminists has now reached fever pitch and is collapsing trials and damaging the fabric of Irish society .

meeeeh

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

There is a cohort of women now who because of their own personal failures want to blame it all on men. It has never been a better time in history to be a woman in Ireland. The childlike behaviour of Irish feminists has now reached fever pitch and is collapsing trials and damaging the fabric of Irish society .

I think you are confusing your personal frustrations for being left behind in society that is changing with fabric of Irish society being damaged. World is changing that's all but I still don't know what has this to do with this thread.

Redneck Culchie

meeeeh wrote: »

I think you are confusing your personal frustrations for being left behind in society that is changing with fabric of Irish society being damaged. World is changing that's all but I still don't know what has this to do with this thread.

If comrade Coppinger and kangaroo courts are the progressive future you desire, then I will gladly stay behind as will many others.

Huntergonzo

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

It's about time something like this has happened. For the past year we have been fed this narrative that if a woman takes a case against a man then she should automatically be believed i.e. men are guilty simply because they are men not because of the evidence brought before the court. In any balanced context this would be considered discrimination, but in Newstalk this is somehow considered to be justice.

Unfortunetaly this is the case, Newstalk is an overtly anti-male broadcaster and makes no apology for it.

I started listening to them on a regular basis about 2 years ago and while initially I thought they were doing a good job at highlighting womens issues (as any fair broadcaster should), it became apparent that the reporting was all one way. It got to a point where before I even turned on the radio in the morning I'd say to myself 'well let's see what the men did to the women today' and I have to say they very rarely disappointed.

But I'll never forget the day the Ulster rugby lads were found not-guilty, it was like everybody at the station suffered a death in the family, there was a sense of devastation, Newstalk was in shock. Them lads (like all men), were guilty by way of gender and when they got the 'wrong' verdict, they were at pains to stress that 'not guilty doesn't mean innocent', and that they believed both sides.

Would they still stick with the line of 'we believe both sides' if the lads were found guilty......WOULD THEY FÚCK.

Tell me how

Redneck Culchie wrote: »

If comrade Coppinger and kangaroo courts are the progressive future you desire, then I will gladly stay behind as will many others.

Your use of words like comrade and kangaroo courts makes me think you are seeing things that just aren't there.

Even if 100,000 people prefered whatever society you seem to wish for, that would still mean that 98% of the population of Ireland would rather a fairer system for all who appear before or wish to see justice in the courts.

I think I am doing you a favour suggesting 100K would hold such views.

Faugheen

People who have issues with the knicker protest either don't actually realise what the protest was about or they're fine with what happened to cause the protest.

I'd like to think it's the former, however with the dinosaurs in here it's probably the latter.

Tell me how

gunnery sairsint wrote: »

Did anyone notice the stressing topic today?

At Newstalk breakfast, they were talking about stress.

On Pat Kenny, he was talking about stress.

On Ciara Kelly, she was talking about stress.

On Moncrieff, he was talking about stress.

Then, driving home from work, I put on Ivan Yates, to hear him talk about JAYSUS STRESS!!!!

Why?

I found this topic inexplicably stressful;).

ESRI released a report on the topic yesterday.

This happens whenever there is a topical item. It gets covered across various shows. Similar on different stations but as NT is a talk station, it throws up scenarios like this.

Huntergonzo

Tell me how wrote: »

ESRI released a report on the topic yesterday.

This happens whenever there is a topical item. It gets covered across various shows. Similar on different stations but as NT is a talk station, it throws up scenarios like this.

They also talked a lot about their exclusive Red C Women in Ireland Survey. A survey which apparently aims to highlight the perceived gender imbalances favouring men.

Unusual for Newstalk to spread feminist propoganda I know, but there you go, I was shocked and appalled.

Redneck Culchie

Tell me how wrote: »

Your use of words like comrade and kangaroo courts makes me think you are seeing things that just aren't there.

Even if 100,000 people prefered whatever society you seem to wish for, that would still mean that 98% of the population of Ireland would rather a fairer system for all who appear before or wish to see justice in the courts.

I think I am doing you a favour suggesting 100K would hold such views.

You seem to be confused again, I am not looking for anything other than innocent until proven guilty for rape accused and legitimate journalism.

I think you are even more confused if you some how believe the majority oppose that. For reference your friend Ruth Coppinger's party are 0% in the polls.

Tell me how

Huntergonzo wrote: »

They also talked a lot about their exclusive Red C Women in Ireland Survey. A survey which apparently aims to highlight the perceived gender imbalances favouring men.

Unusual for Newstalk to spread feminist propoganda I know, but there you go, I was shocked and appalled.

Feminist propoganda?

So, do you think the results of the Red C poll were false? What data are you using to back up your opinion?