Administrative Officer 2017 Campaign

Halloween Jack

AGC wrote: »

No AO, I was an EO and when appointed AO I was on more than the 1st point on AO scale.

Does that mean I should be marking time?

It’s clear in my contract when my increment is due.

This is the same position as I was in. The marking time seems to have been enforced lately and on a scattergun basis.

AGC

Riskymove wrote: »

it depends

what point of AO scale did you start on?

In between point 3 and 4 on an ‘off point’ so I have now gone onto point 4 and on the same date next year will go onto point 5

Halloween Jack

AGC wrote: »

In between point 3 and 4 on an ‘off point’ so I have now gone onto point 4 and on the same date next year will go onto point 5

I was between 4 and 5 and will not move on to point 5 till 2022

AGC

What is the logic with it?

Halloween Jack

AGC wrote: »

What is the logic with it?

That it is an open competition and not a promotion so you should not receive a bigger salary than someone who was appointed at the same time. They are basically treating me like a new entrant for salary purposes but allowing me to keep the salary I have currently on a ‘concessional’ basis.

Chocolate Teapot

Halloween Jack, was it PeoplePoint or your own dept's HR that told you about not getting an increment til 2022?

Halloween Jack

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

Halloween Jack, was it PeoplePoint or your own dept's HR that told you about not getting an increment til 2022?

All of the above and some clown in hr policy in dper to boot

AGC

Halloween Jack wrote: »

All of the above and some clown in hr policy in dper to boot

Are you in DPER?

Halloween Jack

All of the above have also stated off record that there are talks ongoing between unions and dper on this and that the unofficial line is there will be some positive resolution down the line.

It doesn’t make a difference to me, I’m truly disgusted that this policy has been applied from some arbitrary point and feel like a pawn in a union vs management game.

I’m in a position at the moment where a couple more years experience should see me be able to attract a much larger salary in the private sector, which I will now intend to pursue.

Halloween Jack

AGC wrote: »

Are you in DPER?

No

Chocolate Teapot

Halloween Jack wrote: »

All of the above and some clown in hr policy in dper to boot

It seems very wrong that people are being treated so differently. Surely all candidates coming from within the CS should be treated the same. I have been told that I will be off scale for one year exactly and then will have increments as usual. By the way does anybody know how they work out how long you spend on an off point scale? I know some people have to stay on it for 6 months but others, like me, have to stay on it for a full year!

Halloween Jack

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

It seems very wrong that people are being treated so differently. Surely all candidates coming from within the CS should be treated the same. I have been told that I will be off scale for one year exactly and then will have increments as usual. By the way does anybody know how they work out how long you spend on an off point scale? I know some people have to stay on it for 6 months but others, like me, have to stay on it for a full year!

I’m fairly sure it’s based on when your increment at the prior grade is due.

Chocolate Teapot

I've just realised how much worse off I am as an AO than I was as an EO. I was due an increment as an EO in 5 months time to bring me up to €34,024. Now as an AO I'm on around 32k and a bit and will have to wait a full year before I get put on the next point on the scale which is €33,911. Does this seem right?

AGC

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

I've just realised how much worse off I am as an AO than I was as an EO. I was due an increment as an EO in 5 months time to bring me up to €34,024. Now as an AO I'm on around 32k and a bit and will have to wait a full year before I get put on the next point on the scale which is €33,911. Does this seem right?

I was always of the understanding as an existing civil servant your salary can not go down. Even if it is a Euro a week or whatever it may be.

The AO being an open competition should not matter I’d have thought?

A lot more existing civil servants are being promoted through open competitions.

Chocolate Teapot

AGC wrote: »

I was always of the understanding as an existing civil servant your salary can not go down. Even if it is a Euro a week or whatever it may be.

The AO being an open competition should not matter I’d have thought?

A lot more existing civil servants are being promoted through open competitions.

I would have thought the exact same. Technically my salary is not going down, not initially anyway. I'm on a couple of hundred more a year on the off-scale AO than I was as an EO. The pay decrease will come when instead of getting my increment in 5 months I have to wait a year, and when I finally do get put on the normal point, I'll be on less than I would have been if I stayed an EO

Woopsey

So you went from point 3 on the eo to an off point between 1 and 2 on the AO scale. Your just unlucky that that jump from point 2 to 3 is unusually low.

But at least you'll keep increasing for the next few years. It's a long game we civil servants play.

hardybuck

Seems a bit weird that EOs can earn more than AOs so early on in the EO scale. It would be like an AP earning more than a PO.

Chocolate Teapot

hardybuck wrote: »

Seems a bit weird that EOs can earn more than AOs so early on in the EO scale. It would be like an AP earning more than a PO.

I agree, especially considering the extra workload and responsibility that an AO has compared to an EO. Im going to query it with PeoplePoint as it does seem strange but I'm not confident It'll make any difference. Anyway it's good for the cv doing the AO, and even if you're worse off financially in the short term hopefully it will pay off down the road

Ravelleman

hardybuck wrote: »

Seems a bit weird that EOs can earn more than AOs so early on in the EO scale. It would be like an AP earning more than a PO.

You'd be surprised. This very issue was the source of the recent IR issues with senior management in AGS.

Halloween Jack

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

I agree, especially considering the extra workload and responsibility that an AO has compared to an EO. Im going to query it with PeoplePoint as it does seem strange but I'm not confident It'll make any difference. Anyway it's good for the cv doing the AO, and even if you're worse off financially in the short term hopefully it will pay off down the road

I get what you’re saying but it is ‘down the road’ at this stage. Ten years of service, the majority of it in extraordinarily difficult circumstances, with no chance for advancement and very little light at the end of the tunnel at times, is repaid with this kind of affront, I’m not sure whether anger or dismay is the more appropriate emotion.

This policy has existed for donkeys but has not been applied until some arbitrary point quite recently and has been applied in my opinion to deliberately penalise people in my position.

As someone who has always bought in to the ethos or values of public service in general it’s very disappointing and not something I’ll forgive.

It also occurs to me that to a lot of people on this thread who are new entrants my gripe may seem churlish given I’ll be earning more than them at the same grade and I totally understand that. If anybody is arsed they can check my post history here and see that I have advocated pay equalisation for new recruits before any pay rises for existing staff in the past. But really the fact remains that on appointment from open panels existing civil servants could not lose money, and would generally receive a small increase, that was my expectation and it seems that Actually I stand to lose quite a lot of money for doing more challenging duties for the next 4 years.

SFC1895

I have every sympathy for Halloween Jack here.

From my own experience, I was appointed off the first batch of the 2016 panel having been an EO for over 9 years. I was put on an off scale point for a period of 3-4 months before joining the regular AO scale at the nearest point to my old salary. I now have a new increment date, where I will move onto the next point

For comparison purposes, a former colleague of mine was in the exact same boat as me- started in the Dept around the same time, were on the exact same point of the EO scale, and she got the AO early 2016 off the 2015 panel. The same thing happened to her as me, and she moved onto the nearest point, new increment date and increments started kicking in. She got her second increment on this scale last November.

Disgraceful what is happening HJ here, imo.

Halloween Jack

SFC1895 wrote: »

I have every sympathy for Halloween Jack here.

From my own experience, I was appointed off the first batch of the 2016 panel having been an EO for over 9 years. I was put on an off scale point for a period of 3-4 months before joining the regular AO scale at the nearest point to my old salary. I now have a new increment date, where I will move onto the next point

For comparison purposes, a former colleague of mine was in the exact same boat as me- started in the Dept around the same time, were on the exact same point of the EO scale, and she got the AO early 2016 off the 2015 panel. The same thing happened to her as me, and she moved onto the nearest point, new increment date and increments started kicking in. She got her second increment on this scale last November.

Disgraceful what is happening HJ here, imo.

Many thanks. That’s the most annoying thing, that this policy has just been applied from some arbitrary date to suit the agenda of DPER in talks with the unions. I was appointed in an open competition in 2016 myself and had no marking time issues.

It really is soul crushing to realise that certain ****sack fellow civil servants can go out of their way to cause people distress etc, just to further their own agenda.

Demoralising.

Ravelleman

All of this contributes to my already strong view that the pay scale for AOs is bonkers.

Sir Ophiuchus

Ravelleman wrote: »

All of this contributes to my already strong view that the pay scale for AOs is bonkers.

In that the grade is billed as equivalent to HEO but paid far less?

hardybuck

Ravelleman wrote: »

All of this contributes to my already strong view that the pay scale for AOs is bonkers.

Not really, AO is pitched as a graduate recruitment grade. The AO is paid more than what the average graduate gets.

Halloween Jack

hardybuck wrote: »

Not really, AO is pitched as a graduate recruitment grade. The AO is paid more than what the average graduate gets.

Notionally perhaps. In reality all my equivalents are HEO’s, so I’m expected to do the same work as them for the next 4 years and receive 40k less in that period.

hardybuck

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Notionally perhaps. In reality all my equivalents are HEO’s, so I’m expected to do the same work as them for the next 4 years and receive 40k less in that period.

That's a seperate issue, and potentially a valid one without knowing the ins and outs of what you described.

But AOs are traditionally seen as graduate recruits working on policy development rather than operational work. I think they still are in the Departments who traditionally hired AOs.

Halloween Jack

hardybuck wrote: »

That's a seperate issue, and potentially a valid one without knowing the ins and outs of what you described.

But AOs are traditionally seen as graduate recruits working on policy development rather than operational work. I think they still are in the Departments who traditionally hired AOs.

I work in a place where they traditionally hired AO’s. They are seen as identical to HEO’s aside from salary.

hardybuck

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I work in a place where they traditionally hired AO’s. They are seen as identical to HEO’s aside from salary.

Is it in DPER, Finance or Taoiseachs?

Halloween Jack

hardybuck wrote: »

Is it in DPER, Finance or Taoiseachs?

No