Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923974#Comment_120923974

Where would you build it, Cork have only just rebuilt PUC, Limerick have the gaelic grounds and Thomond Park, Galway have Pearse Stadium, Tipp have Semple Stadium, all these grounds are only full a handful amount of times every year between them. The only possible option might be the redevelopment of Casement Park in Belfast, but, they are having massive trouble getting that completed and it's capacity is only around 35000. To build another Croke Park somewhere would cost a few hundred million, it's unrealistic, as just a back up for when Dublin reach a final, otherwise it would never be filled. Croke Park is only full to capacity twice a year; the hurling and football final, so zero chance of another Croke Park being built. Even if a second Croke Park type stadium was build somewhere, for argument sake let's say in Kerry, where would you play the final if both Dublin and Kerry got to the final? Total insanity!

acequion

It wasn't an issue in the past because Dublin GAA didn't exploit the advantage to the extent that they now do and weren't so dominant back then for all sorts of reasons discussed in other threads.

I'm not in any way disputing that they were deserved winners on Sunday, but they only became the better team at the death when they pulled away to win it and you can't underestimate home advantage in such a scenario. If that was in Killarney you can bet it's Kerry who'd get over the line, Cork, if they were at that level, in Pairc ui Chaoimh, or the northern teams in their counties. And that has been how Dublin have pulled off a lot of their recent 9 wins, they and their supporters have really taken ownership of Croke Park. Hard to beat that combination in finals, though both Kerry and Mayo have come very close.

Building another 80K stadium might seem very ambitious but not as unrealistic as people seem to think. I do think something should be done to mitigate the home advantage.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924068#Comment_120924068

Where are the funds going to come from and where are you going to build it, bear in mind it would cost somewhere in the region of half a billion and would only ever be filled to capacity if Dublin make a final, which will be less and less with so many of their great team retiring in the next year or two. You're looking at building a stadium that might only be filled to capacity once every 3 or 4 years!

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923834#Comment_120923834

Oh I know. It would mean expanding Parnell Park or building a stadium for them elsewhere.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923974#Comment_120923974

It makes more sense to make Croke Park a neutral venue and ban Dublin from using it as a home ground. So they'd have to play in Parnell Park which would require an expansion (which is plausible) or they build another stadium somewhere.

I think soccer ground pitches are too small to use, for example if they wanted to use Tallaght or Aviva, although I'm open to correction on that.

Croke Park is sacred. Finals must be played there.

Dublin have lots of advantages but we have the players to beat them. We lost the game yesterday due to lack of composure in last 20 minutes. We had lots of opportunities.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923974#Comment_120923974

Wasn’t much of an advantage for Dublin last year when they played Kerry in the semifinals.

Kerry missed out yesterday because Clifford missed plenty of scoring opportunities.

acequion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924458#Comment_120924458

One factor, undoubtedly.

acequion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924431#Comment_120924431

Re your last line about why we lost, spot on. But very hard for any team not to lose composure when neck and neck in the opposition's home stadium 70% filled with their own home crowd. No team have managed it in a final against them since 2011 and I'd be pretty certain that 100 percent record would not have been sustained had venues been different.

I think something must be changed though. You're right that they should not be allowed use it as home ground at the very least for starters. I get what people are saying about the cost of building another CP elsewhere but I don't get why the original CP has to be sacred. That's just tradition and tradition can evolve. You also have to think of the advantage cost wise and time wise to the Dublin squad and supporters against the disadvantage to other counties. Kerry, Mayo, Donegal have 3-4 hour road trips, hotel accommodation has sky rocketed along with other costs, add in the cost of tickets and less people are now in a position to travel, meaning you'll get up to two thirds of the stadium full of home supporters. Even those who work at CP on match days are all at home. It really is very partisan.

I knew yesterday when we were level going into injury time that we'd lose, we actually lost it at Dublin's goal. Anybody who has witnessed the experience of a second half goal for Dublin at an AI final when they're in trouble, stadium shaking etc, know what it's like and the Dubs never lose after that. Hats off to them, they're a brilliant outfit with outstanding players, but they really want to be all out conquerors, why else bring back three retired players! And all fair enough, but playing conditions should be strictly 50/50 and they're not when it's Dublin. And that is unfair.

Fann Linn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924681#Comment_120924681

Dublin play their Leinster championship matches in CP because the counties which sit on the Leinster council are agreeable to it. If counties objected to same Dublin would have to play elsewhere.

With the round robin system in place now for the latter rounds Dublin do play and are only just happy to play in other parts of the country.

On a final note on this, wasn’t there a dedicated thread on split Dublin in 2/4/ or 6 and get Dublin out of CP on this forum a few years back?

acequion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120924764#Comment_120924764

There is a very long thread about the dominance of Dublin GAA, started whilst in their glory years and resurfaced a bit lately but that thread is mainly about splitting Dublin, which personally I wouldn't be keen on. I like Dublin, I like the dubs and the championship would not be the same without them as a unified county and their county colours. My point about the venue is all in the interest of fairness and I mean no disrespect to Dublin. That thread possibly goes into the home advantage part but it's too long to trawl back through. If there has been a thread specifically about that, I'd appreciate a link, please. Thanks.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923857#Comment_120923857

back to what this thread is suppose to be about... Kerry Gaa.. would putting Shane Ryan midfield be an option?? we definitely need to freshen up the team a little.. something just to put a bit of a spark into lads...

something i would really like to do something about is the bloody captaincy issue.... i cannot believe that we are still stuck with the archaic method of winning club team having the right to the captaincy of the county team... making our superstar players captain sounds great and in an ideal world they would carry the team to victory... but the world doesnt work like that.. just ask gooch dara o se donaghy, paul galvin etc

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925012#Comment_120925012

Barry John touched on that last week on the podcast. He said Shane could be an option if we don't see anyone coming through to compete with Jack and Diarmuid. Also about the lack of forwards coming through and Shane being an option.

I think he's too good in goals to move tho. He's going to get his 2nd all star in 2 years and he's be brilliant for us again this year. Also, the lack of alternative required for this level.

Agree about the captaincy. Completely stupid at this point to be picking captain that way. Let the team and managment pick the captain for the team.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925212#Comment_120925212

I think the captaincy doesn't matter either way.

Shanes brother Mark is considered a better midfielder.

Joe O'Connor will be back so I'm sure we'll be trying him.

Rob Monahan is tipped as potential new midfielder but he's young.

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925241#Comment_120925241

Mark has been outstanding for East Kerry the last few years, as well as Rathmore. But he was told by Jack he was surplus to requirements during the league and left the panel.

I'm no familiar with Rob. What's his story?

Also, I'm still undecided on Ronan Buckley. I'm just not sure if he'll be up to top class county standard.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925283#Comment_120925283

Rob Monahan's a midfielder from Ardfert who's been tipped as the best of recent U20s, he's also a good hurler as you'd expect.

He was a minor in 2021 so might be a couple of years before he's ready.

But who knows really. Lots of lads get tipped but we never seen them again. Then the likes of Paul Murphy or Graham O'Sullivan fly in under the radar and become stalwarts.

We're definitely lacking in the 20 to 23 age bracket.

Burke and Shine have also been tipped.

Bass Reeves

We have no one to blame but ourselves. Pat Spillane was on Balls.ie last week. He said that Connor McManus said the key to beating Dublin was not to give the Hill Oxygen. As I said to a lad this morning you can expect few things worth 2+ point in any big game against Dublin in CP. This lead us in the second half going for half chances. But with the game in the melting pot WTF did TOS not run at the Dublin defence when he and I am not sure who was inside were 2on 2 on the Dublin Goal. That is as good as it get in an AI final. It was a definite point, possibly a black card or a goal.

Since 2010 we have lost 3 out of five Finals in CP and about four SF's. That is a glaring statistic.

But in Sunday we left it behind us. We gave the hill oxygen in the first half by going for two half (and I think there 30%ish) chance's. Paul Murphy give us nothing going forward in the first half. O'Bealoigh should definitely have started. But this goes back to our use of substitutions all year. Sticking with Brosnan and he making mistakes, bringing in Rural Murphy because he is a future prospect.

We were reactive not proactive with our substitutions. Adrian and Killian should have been sprang from the bench the first time we went 2-3 points up in the second half. The goal we conceded was partially because 2-3 players were running out of legs.

The reason we have no forwards is because we are persisting with a few average player. If Donal O Sullivan and Barry Dan are not good enough drop.them off the panel, however I think both should have got more game time during the championship. Rurai was never going to be bought on in the final. He had next year's league to get him ready not championship this year

Our bollaxing around all year came back to haunt us. This was a series of f@@kups that cause the loss. If we had rectified 2-3 we would have won the match.

wonga77

I think Jack Barry's race is ran too. He just doesn't offer enough from general play and he doesn't look up to the pace at all. In fact there were a good few the last day that looked off the pace at times.

Too many mistakes cost us the last day, the pity about it is that the game was there for the taking even though I don't think we deserved it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120923990#Comment_120923990

Statistically you can put a figure on it, I believe it's worth something like 3 points per match. The obvious solution is to use Páirc Uí Chaoimh when Dublin is involved in a final or semi-final with anyone else, if Cork is the opponent then alternate home and away so just do 100+ years of Dublin away to cancel out the historic Croke Park advantage.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927148#Comment_120927148

It's one we definitely left behind. I think the players know that.

We gifted Dublin a goal and had so many opportunities that we got nothing from (possibly 10 after 50th maybe). That's demoralising for the players and the fans also.

We could've easily won by 5 or 6 points on another day.

Even for the Dublin goal, I'm pretty certain Shane Ryan would've saved it. Paddy Small hit it with his weaker foot, it had no power and was at a nice height.

Anyway, there's always next year.

On the Kerry Gaa fan forum (not here), they're discussing club players we need to introduce to panel. It really is our religion.

dobman88

Club championship due to start in a few days.

Who wins what?

https://twitter.com/livescorekerry/status/1685970249034723328?t=6mNWHEE1eNTxHUQ1un87eg&s=19

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927287#Comment_120927287

🤣🤣 take the final out of croke park

Gavins team could have played anywhere & I still believe they would have won what they won

They were there for the taking Sunday as Bass said, it wasn't them playing in croker that that got them over the line or hampered us

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927148#Comment_120927148

I think our MF is getting stuck that is not necessarily right. The problem for Jack Barry last is he was not only marking one of the best MF'ers in the country but he and DC were also covering for two very small players in DM and PM who have very little physical strength. Both are on one side of the pitch as well.

I would not totally blame JB or DC for the way thhe played Sunday. jB time is limited as a starter but he has a lot to add as a reserve MF for the next 4-5 years

thesultan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925012#Comment_120925012

Kerry don't have a back up goalie to really replace him..

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927484#Comment_120927484

We do not even have a sub goalie

acequion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927401#Comment_120927401

Gavin's team, maybe and then again maybe not but this current team aren't quite at the same level so I would disagree with your last sentence. I really think their playing at home got them over the line at the death on Sunday. I really don't get why everyone is so obsessed with the final being in Croker just because it's always been that way.

Forge83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925316#Comment_120925316

Was it two years ago Fionan Mackessey from Ardfert and Kerry hurlers made Sigerson team of the year in Football at wing back. The man is built perfectly for current inter county midfield. A massive man who is extremely athletic. Might not have Diarmuid’s footballing but has more than Jack Barry, and is taller, and faster. He should be called into the panel for a trial period if he is interested.

dobman88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927807#Comment_120927807

". I really think their playing at home got them over the line at the death on Sunday"

That line has been used by other county supporters to whinge about losing to Dublin in Croke Park. Let's not lower ourselves to that level.

Croke Park is the national stadium. Its absolutely soaked in history and being there on all Ireland final day is the goal of every fella to ever put on a pair of boots. And when your main reason for wanting it out of Croke Park is that you want to "stop" Dublin, your argument holds no credibility.

I realise it's a tough loss to take for some fans but I'll say again, let's not lower ourselves to whinging and moaning about such trivial things.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927938#Comment_120927938

Mackessy Definitely worth having a look at.... Monahan is a prospect... a touch young yet... he’s waiting for his leaving cert results.... and heinrich the stacks man has the makings of a proper centre half back...

not sure was it here or Kerry gaa forum that our present Kerry team was being compared to the 04-09 version.... the 04-09 team had players on it with a serious stubborn streak in them.... Galvin, Dara se, Seamus Moynihan, Aidan Mahoney, even donaghy and probably the most stubborn of them all was Declan Sullivan.. these guys were proper tough men and very good footballers.... very few if any of our present bunch have a stubborn streak in them.. maybe Clifford has but that’s bout it... certainly none of our defenders have it the way eamon breen had it or Mike maccarthy or the aforementioned moynihan and Mahoney... basically we lack a few real strong characters in the Dara se mould on the pitch

i know football has evolved since the lads mentioned played... but men and not boys are what’s needed to bring a team to victory

acequion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927970#Comment_120927970

I'm not moaning or whingeing, I'm putting forward a very valid argument, one that has been put forward countless times before and even right now there are posters on the Kerry GAA forum saying exactly what I'm saying here. You sound like a diehard traditionalist and that's your prerogative, but there are others, like me, who are open to change or at least discussing the pros and cons of change.

To imply that stating how playing in CP is a huge advantage to Dublin is either sour grapes moaning or trivial, is facetious. Home advantage is an undisputed fact. It is obviously not the only thing that gets Dublin over the line, but it does help a lot. I don't think anybody wants to "stop" a great team, just ensure fairness for all teams.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120927938#Comment_120927938

What height is Mackessy? He looks like a giant.

It's an interesting suggestion.