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Colm Cooper's 'corporate-sponsored dinner'

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    #242
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,119 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Colm missed a trick. He should have branded this shindig as a "Book Lauch".


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    #243
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    There is a big difference between writing a book and charging people to have dinner with you!


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    #244
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    All of these hurlers and footballers are trying to benefit financially from their association with the GAA. They are all at it. Pubs, books, making appearances, opening shops etc. I'd imagine most of them get appearance money for a lot of things.

    No doubt any player who is asked to do a couple of hours at an opening gets a few bob. But Tom O'Sullivan got a fraction of the calls Cooper did despite being equally as important to the team.

    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    To pick out Cooper alone though is wrong. They are all at it. Yes the testimonial dinner is different, but its no different to what other ex players are doing to maximise their income.
    Should we now ban all ex players benefitting financially? Cooper is essentially now a private citizen. He is free to do as he wants as are all the rest of the ex players.
    He was always a private citizen. As he is still a club player the rules still apply to him - the fact that he is not playing county football has no bearing on that.
    And all players are free to do as they please also.
    It's not wrong to pick out Cooper - I know of no other player selling something who are claiming charities are going to benefit from their endevours

    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I don't buy the myth that the GAA is or ever was truly an "amateur" organisation, particularly for top level county footballers.
    Of course it was truly amateur. There was "collective training throughout the 40s and 50s I believe where players took two weeks off to train but it wasn't until the 90s that commercialism began to increase dramatically.
    Of course its no longer purely amateur at intercounty level but it is at club level for 99.99% anyway.
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    In terms of the admin at lower level, a lot of people are in it mainly for the All-Ireland final tickets.
    Ah come off it. The chairman and secretary of most clubs get tickets on application/payment but the amount of work being put in by volunteers is ridiculous in relation to the "reward" of an AI ticket. I do a lot of "Admin" work and don't get a ticket - thats not why most people do it
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    All inter county players from every county get healthy expenses, have sponsorship deals, usually a sponsored car.
    A blanket statement if ever I saw one. All county players have standardised expenses which will cover the cost of fuel / wear and tear and more along side- so yes they get healthy expenses. Sponsorship deals ? Maybe 10-12 of the Dublin players, 4-5 of the Kerry/ Tyrone/ Mayo footballers, Kilkenny ,gAlway,tipp hurlersplayers. Possibly 1-2 on the next 4-5 teams but thats it. Theres no footballer or hurler in laois/offaly/Louth/Kildare etc.thats getting any sponsorship deal thats worth anything.
    As for cars? Again the top players in the top counties - your talking maybe a total of 40-50 players (though I would imagine its far less than that) across both codes.
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I'd say there's significant payments under the table too to stop talented players from emigrating or working abroad for the summer. And if there isn't, there should be. Its tough to watch the suits in Croke Park being well paid, while young players in Kerry are faced with the decision of emigrating to Australia to make a bit of money. We know managers are well looked after. The GAA hierarchy are well paid. Maybe its time everyone was out in the open about it and a move to a form of professionalism was allowed. Certainly a lot of players such as Bernard Brogan have significant sponsorship deals and no-one seems to bat an eye lid or question his amateurism.

    Who are these suits you refer to?
    As an organisation the size of the GAA it is necessary to employee a number of people full time. The GAA employees directly hundreds of people country wide as coaches or administrators. Thesea are not 6 figure salaries -they are in and around the same as the average industrial wage. In many cases these jobs are filled by former players.
    Croke Park is run by the Croke Park Stadium company as a seperate business entity so is not really comparable to players - its job is to make money for the organisation -hence the conferences and concerts.

    Finally a move to professionalism would kill the GAA as we know it, apart from the fact that the surplus generated this year (3million as far as I recall) would essentially pay for 100 players/coaches so less than four teams across two differnt codes . .

    Look, I've no major problem with players getting a few bob here and there for appearances or writing a book etc. even though as I ve already said no player in any team sport has won anything on their own. This testimonial is a "Ive played and won All stars for the love of the game - now its time to pay up . . . A lump sum of €150000 will be just fine.


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    #245
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    It's not wrong to pick out Cooper - I know of no other player selling something who are claiming charities are going to benefit from their endevours

    Are you saying Colm is lying/telling untruths about Charities benefiting from his testimonial.


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    #246
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Benildus wrote: »
    Are you saying Colm is lying/telling untruths about Charities benefiting from his testimonial.



    It is the extent to which they do is the question, and that should be made public. Reason I say that is that I know from working in sector for a while that they get as little as 6/7% out of some events allegedly organised on their behalf.

    Tryrell and Jason are latest players to have written books - not sure to what extent they have had "help" in that endeavour - and that is a perfectly legitimate way to record their time in the games.

    By the way, there is very little money in books that are sold solely in Ireland. Be lucky to make 20k even from a bestseller.


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    #247
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    There is nothing socialism-related about sport. If there was Mascharano and Messi would get paid the same, as would Ronaldo and his team-mates.

    I like Tom O'Sullivan, good solid footballer. But few people would change the channel at home to watch him play or travel many miles and part with their money to watch him play. They would for Cooper, Canavan, AOS, etc.

    You encourage greatness by paying the best players well and paying players who improve well. If you pay them all the same, there is no incentive to play well.

    GAA is competing with several sports for young players. Rugby, soccer, even AFL as well as a couple others. Of course young talented players are going to have their heads turned by the prospects of professionalism. If they thought they could make big bucks in Ireland, they would stay.

    Its usually armchair generals and croke park suits who expect players to play and put their bodies on the line for the love of the game. But for every successful AI winning player, there are a thousand who played for years and have nothing at the end to show for it except maybe bad knees and hips that need replacing. So if any player can maximise their income they should and give two fingers to the well paid suits in Croke Park who preach amateurism while they enjoy expense account hotel stays and corporate boxes.


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    #248
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    It is the extent to which they do is the question, and that should be made public. Reason I say that is that I know from working in sector for a while that they get as little as 6/7% out of some events allegedly organised on their behalf.

    Tryrell and Jason are latest players to have written books - not sure to what extent they have had "help" in that endeavour - and that is a perfectly legitimate way to record their time in the games.

    By the way, there is very little money in books that are sold solely in Ireland. Be lucky to make 20k even from a bestseller.

    you're not BrianBoru though, who made the initial claim


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    #249
    MarcusP12
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭MarcusP12


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    There is a big difference between writing a book and charging people to have dinner with you!

    yes, but in the same way no one is obliged to buy a book which will make a few quid for the writer, no one is obliged to go to the dinner! He's not forcing anyone to go. I assume there was plenty of interest between fellow high profile team mates down the years and well known irish sportsmen and women and those corporate types that love to suck up to well known GAA player, for the event to be worthwhile....

    Whether you agree or disagree with the morality of the event, it was 100% voluntary for those who went....

    Its not like he's charging kids for his autograph or something:pac: still not sure how I feel about it, but doesn't really matter in the grander scheme of things!


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    #250
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    I said before that I have no problem with Cooper having such an event. As you say, no-one was frog marched to go. It is the charity aspect I don't like.

    Someone again made the point about likes of Gooch and Brogan getting tv work, and hurlers from Kildare not.

    Seriously! And no offence to Kildare hurlers but it would be like Apple getting me to do ads for their new lap top!


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    #251
    dog_pig
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Doubt it. That said, is jayo being publicly hounded about the proceeds? Is someone going to devote airtime on media sources because they think he will get too much from the book and try pressurize him into offering a % to a charity (such as the GAA☺)?

    The point is that Jason Sherlock hasn't used some vague association with charities to sell his book. Saying that money (garnered from an event that is purely for the benefit of one person) will be donated without committing beforehand to a figure or percentage is improper.


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    #252
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    There is nothing socialism-related about sport. If there was Mascharano and Messi would get paid the same, as would Ronaldo and his team-mates.

    I like Tom O'Sullivan, good solid footballer. But few people would change the channel at home to watch him play or travel many miles and part with their money to watch him play. They would for Cooper, Canavan, AOS, etc.

    You encourage greatness by paying the best players well and paying players who improve well. If you pay them all the same, there is no incentive to play well.

    You've never really played sport, have you

    The incentive is to be the best - its competitive instinct
    Very few people have paid money and travelled miles to watch any of those players play.
    What they have done is paid money and travelled miles to watch their teams play, not individuals.


    And to say socialism has nothing to do with sport shows a distinct lack in understanding of both of those.
    The commercialism of sport has tainted it in my view and I would say the view of most people. How would you rate Johnjo Shelvey V Neymar ? Because up to about 18 months ago, Shelvey was earning more at a second level ENglish team than Neymar playing with Barcelona. . .
    Sport isn't all about money, if you think it is thats a sad way to be.

    You;re in effect arguing my point when you reference the thousand players per all ireland winner that have nothing to show for it, but leaving that aside, who are these suits that you continually refer to? Can you give us a name? Padraig Duffy perhaps ? The Director General whos salary is approximtely 150,000 ? The presidents employer is reimbursed the cost of his salary , everyone else are at lower salaries so I'm not sure if its begrudgery on your behalf or who exactly is the suit you're having a go at
    Benildus wrote: »
    Are you saying Colm is lying/telling untruths about Charities benefiting from his testimonial.

    If you're not going to bother take comments in context you shouldn't be contributing to the conversation


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    #253
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    dog_pig wrote: »
    The point is that Jason Sherlock hasn't used some vague association with charities to sell his book. Saying that money (garnered from an event that is purely for the benefit of one person) will be donated without committing beforehand to a figure or percentage is improper.

    Come off it! Did gooch say at the beginning that charities were going to benefit, or was it said later - after people criticized him and public pressure was heaped on him? Don't let facts get in the way of your stingey gripe.


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    #254
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    There is a big difference between writing a book and charging people to have dinner with you!
    Is purchase, in either case, mandatory? No. Those who choose to purchase, do so.
    You'll get a few hours entertainment out of each and hopefully know more afterwards and have something to chat about with friends.


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    #255
    dog_pig
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Come off it! Did gooch say at the beginning that charities were going to benefit, or was it said later - after people criticized him and public pressure was heaped on him? Don't let facts get in the way of your stingey gripe.

    Which facts are you referring to here?


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    #256
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    TBF to Colm Cooper I thought he made it clear from the get go that a portion of the monies would go to his chosen charities?


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    #257
    Saint Sonner
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Saint Sonner


    Jayo talks to his buddies about bringing out a book with just a couple of stories from his life for €100 a pop to make a **** load of money so they go for it. 
    Everyone else goes
     "here Jayo we're not paying you €100 per book its too much money."

    So Jayo comes out and says
     "its alright lads you didn't let me finish I'm going to donate some of the proceeds to charity" 
    so the lads go 
    "how much Jayo" 
    and he says 
    "well i don't really know yet."

    So then a few days later someone else comes along and says 
    "here Jayo seeing your giving some proceeds to Charity and your going to make a **** load of money shouldn't some of that  money go to the people who helped you out for nothing along the way."

    So Jayo appears on a TV show a few days later saying
     "I have an update on my book because you didn't let me finish earlier (after cracking some pointless jokes) - I'm going to be giving some of the proceeds of my book to my local GAA club" - 
    "How much Jayo" -
     "Not really sure yet!"

    I just made the above story up but if I heard something like that I would feel like Jayo was on taking the piss and trying to make as much money as possible for himself and using excuses along the way to make it feel like it was the right thing to do!

    My point being if Jayo wants to make a **** load of money for himself he should just say that and not try and dress it up so that it doesn't have a negative impact on his legacy!


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    #258
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Jason probably got something like a 20k advance and will make less than 10% of sales which are unlikely to be more than 10,000 at very max. That's another 10k or thereabouts. And that's a best seller! Same with Jackie Tyrell. Seems like both are good books and not the usual oul bollix. So fair play to them.


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    #259
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »


    If you're not going to bother take comments in context you shouldn't be contributing to the conversation

    If you're going to facetious enough to make remarks to try and cast doubt on the charitable donations from the event then maybe you shouldn't be making contributions to this conversation too. You clearly have an agenda/grudge to want to cast doubt in peoples minds about it.


    Enjoy your bitterness and begrudgery. I hope Santa gets you Gooch's book.


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    #260
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Benildus wrote: »
    If you're going to facetious enough to make remarks to try and cast doubt on the charitable donations from the event then maybe you shouldn't be making contributions to this conversation too. You clearly have an agenda/grudge to want to cast doubt in peoples minds about it.


    Enjoy your bitterness and begrudgery. I hope Santa gets you Gooch's book.

    I didn't case doubts on whether or not he was contributing to charity.

    The original point made was that Colm Cooper was being singled out despite other people writing books. THIS IS NOT TRUE
    Thats not comparing like with like as no one else is claiming they are contributing to charity and making out that its a charity benefit. Cooper is making money and hes claiming charities are benefitting with no clarification on whether they are getting 1% or 80% or €20000 or €100 000.

    Bitterness and begrudgery ? Really? see previous posts pointing out that your merely resorting to lazy cliches.


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    #261
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    I didn't case doubts on whether or not he was contributing to charity.

    The original point made was that Colm Cooper was being singled out despite other people writing books. THIS IS NOT TRUE
    Thats not comparing like with like as no one else is claiming they are contributing to charity and making out that its a charity benefit. Cooper is making money and hes claiming charities are benefitting with no clarification on whether they are getting 1% or 80% or €20000 or €100 000.

    Bitterness and begrudgery ? Really? see previous posts pointing out that your merely resorting to lazy cliches.


    What exactly do you want? A statement of accounts from a private individual.

    The charities due to to benefit were all named, the charities attended the event. Now why would all that happen if they were not going to benefit from it.

    Again enjoy your bitterness and begrudgery, cliched or not.


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    #262
    dog_pig
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭dog_pig


    Benildus wrote: »
    What exactly do you want? A statement of accounts from a private individual.

    The charities due to to benefit were all named, the charities attended the event. Now why would all that happen if they were not going to benefit from it.

    Again enjoy your bitterness and begrudgery, cliched or not.

    I really don't think anyone's suggesting that the charities didn't benefit at all from the event, where are you getting that impression from?

    In terms of what people want: a statement before the event on how much is getting allocated to the charities, as is the status quo in this sort of thing.


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    #263
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    You've never really played sport, have you

    What a ridiculous comment.
    As it happens I've played plenty of sports.
    Still a ridiculous comment.


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    #264
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    From reading some posts on here, I think people would prefer if Cooper kept all the money for himself and gave none to charity.

    At first Cooper said he was having a testimonial dinner. Then people said that was greedy. Then he said he'd give a portion to charity. Next people said why is he dressing it up as a charity event, he should keep the money all for himself.

    Its impossible to please some people in this country. They always have a gripe with something.


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    #265
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    You've never really played sport, have you

    What a ridiculous comment.
    As it happens I've played plenty of sports.
    Still a ridiculous comment.


    It's not a ridiculous statement .. when I read your post initially I thought the very same thing ! Your views that people only play sports for money or to be the GOAT are misguided. Sure with views like that we should scrap all the junior b's comps !!


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    #266
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    hawkelady wrote: »
    It's not a ridiculous statement .. when I read your post initially I thought the very same thing ! Your views that people only play sports for money or to be the GOAT are misguided. Sure with views like that we should scrap all the junior b's comps !!

    I'm just pointing out how sports operate. Those with the biggest draw attract the most money. That's the way of the world. I didn't invent this setup. Its been there as long as sports have been played. Anyone with an idea of sports would know that.


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    #267
    Benildus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Benildus


    dog_pig wrote: »
    I really don't think anyone's suggesting that the charities didn't benefit at all from the event, where are you getting that impression from?

    In terms of what people want: a statement before the event on how much is getting allocated to the charities, as is the status quo in this sort of thing.


    From the posts above I was replying to


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    #268
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    hawkelady wrote: »
    It's not a ridiculous statement .. when I read your post initially I thought the very same thing ! Your views that people only play sports for money or to be the GOAT are misguided. Sure with views like that we should scrap all the junior b's comps !!

    I'm just pointing out how sports operate. Those with the biggest draw attract the most money. That's the way of the world. I didn't invent this setup. Its been there as long as sports have been played. Anyone with an idea of sports would know that.[/quot


    What??????? Do you think when these sports were invented , rugby, snooker, cricket etc , they were invented to maximise profit ?? No they weren't , they partook in them to have a bit of craic and see who could get one up in their mates basically ...
    myself and 20 mates get together on the last Thursday of each month and we race snails !! Best sport ever, I mean ever !! You should try it. Are you saying that we should pack it in because that's not the way "sports operate" ??? Say it ain't so


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    #269
    PARlance
    Registered Users Posts: 21,119 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    I didn't case doubts on whether or not he was contributing to charity.

    The original point made was that Colm Cooper was being singled out despite other people writing books. THIS IS NOT TRUE
    Thats not comparing like with like as no one else is claiming they are contributing to charity and making out that its a charity benefit. Cooper is making money and hes claiming charities are benefitting with no clarification on whether they are getting 1% or 80% or €20000 or €100 000.

    Bitterness and begrudgery ? Really? see previous posts pointing out that your merely resorting to lazy cliches.

    You should listen to or watch his Off The Ball interview.

    He was quite clear that it was not a charity event but that he would be making a contribution of 50+% to the 2 Charities involved.


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    #270
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    From reading some posts on here, I think people would prefer if Cooper kept all the money for himself and gave none to charity.

    At first Cooper said he was having a testimonial dinner. Then people said that was greedy. Then he said he'd give a portion to charity. Next people said why is he dressing it up as a charity event, he should keep the money all for himself.

    Its impossible to please some people in this country. They always have a gripe with something.
    Irish begrudgery is alive and well!!


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    #271
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    Lads, the man named after area between your ball bag and your arsehole is going to make some funds for the gooch and his clan going forward,the rest of the country on mature reflection might be better off holding fire and having this in the arsenal should the keepers of the flame attack one of our own for doing something similar. BTW he is still an active playing member of the association, although retired from inter county.


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