Footballer of the Year

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

What points are they?

BTW good to know you dont have an issue with the referee from the final, who did a decent job all things considered
When you say Andy Moran was top class all year and deserves POTY, why did he only get MOM on one game?  James McCarthy was consistently good this year and got MOM once too.  So that makes them neck and neck in my book.

Moran played better than mccarthy this year. No need to be getting upset over it man. Its not healthy going over it and over it, trying to find some way to spin the thing that defies reality a little bit more. Go out and enjoy the all ireland win for yourself.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

What points are they?

BTW good to know you dont have an issue with the referee from the final, who did a decent job all things considered
When you say Andy Moran was top class all year and deserves POTY, why did he only get MOM on one game?  James McCarthy was consistently good this year and got MOM once too.  So that makes them neck and neck in my book.

Moran played better than mccarthy this year. No need to be getting upset over it man. Its not healthy going over it and over it, trying to find some way to spin the thing that defies reality a little bit more. Go out and enjoy the all ireland win for yourself.

:D:D:D:D:D
I can easily say that Moran had a good year and deserves to be in the shake up for POTY but I find it hilarious that you get sick in your mouth by even the thought that any Dublin player too could have had a good year

Martina1991

kilns wrote: »

Thats the point I am making, Andy Moran had his huge game against Kerry and McCarthy had his in the final.  Thats why its a 50/50 call, There should be no complaints from anyone if either won the award

Andy was mentioned as being nominated as POTY for weeks. McCarthy is only now being talked about since being MOTM in the final. He wasn't even picked by anyone on this thread as a contender before the final.

Shurimgreat

Maybe its Cormac Costello who deserves player of the year.

I mean his antics in the final few minutes all but guaranteed Dublin victory.

When the pressure was on, Costello stepped up and kicked away Clarke's tees. Now if that isn't a "clutch" player I don't know what is?

morrga

Cluxton deserves the POTY award for this years performance's and the way he has re engineered the game over the past two decades.

Billy Mays

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Maybe its Cormac Costello who deserves player of the year.

I mean his antics in the final few minutes all but guaranteed Dublin victory.

When the pressure was on, Costello stepped up and kicked away Clarke's tees. Now if that isn't a "clutch" player I don't know what is?

Still with the Costello thing, eh?


Have you even watched the video of the incident? Costello in no way affected how quickly Clarke kicked the ball out. Clarke has retrieved the tee that Costello has thrown away before Rock has even taken the free.


The blinkered views of some people on here

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D
I can easily say that Moran had a good year and deserves to be in the shake up for POTY but I find it hilarious that you get sick in your mouth by even the thought that any Dublin player too could have had a good year

That isnt true though. Ive already acknowledged dublin players having good and even great years. Moran just had a better year this year.

MayoAreMagic

morrga wrote: »

Cluxton deserves the POTY award for this years performance's and the way he has re engineered the game over the past two decades.

That isnt what the award is for though...

Martina1991

morrga wrote: »

Cluxton deserves the POTY award for this years performance's and the way he has re engineered the game over the past two decades.

It's not a lifetime achievement award.

Cluxton has 3 all stars in the past 10 years. I wouldn't call that dominating

Shurimgreat

Look, this discussion is going around in circles.
My view is:
POTY should be chosen not on the basis of one game, a half of a game or the final "crucial" few minutes of a game.
He should be chosen based on performances throughout the year, and particularly how much they influenced the final result of games, how many games they played well in and were essentially the difference between the sides.
Lee Keegan deserved the award last year as he was the key player in a number of tight games. He could score winning points but also mark the other teams talisman out of it. He was consistent.
So consistency over the course of the year counts.

The question needs to be asked "Who made the biggest impact on the championship?"
My view is it was Moran.

Shurimgreat

Billy Mays wrote: »

Still with the Costello thing, eh?


Have you even watched the video of the incident? Costello in no way affected how quickly Clarke kicked the ball out. Clarke has retrieved the tee that Costello has thrown away before Rock has even taken the free.


The blinkered views of some people on here

And Keegan in no way influenced Rock's kick. He tried but he failed, just as Costello tried and probably failed to put Clarke off. He shouldn't be messing with his tees though. Its a new low for gaelic football. If it continues to happen, I can see it leading to huge fights in games.

Crash Bang Wall

morrga wrote: »

Cluxton deserves the POTY award for this years performance's and the way he has re engineered the game over the past two decades.

Would he then not be the winner of the "Player of the Last Two Decades" Award?

Believe it or not, Player of the Year is restricted to performances in 2017.....unfortunately

ThunbergsAreGo

Martina1991 wrote: »

Andy was mentioned as being nominated as POTY for weeks. McCarthy is only now being talked about since being MOTM in the final. He wasn't even picked by anyone on this thread as a contender before the final.

Mainly due to his influence in a semi final where he won MotM

McCarthy won his in the final, hence why he wasnt mentioned beforehand....:rolleyes:

Irish Raven

I think Moran had an outstanding year....just one thing is bugging me with all the praise he s getting...having been at the game on sunday...watchin him clearly indicating on several occassions that he wanted to be replaced, with the game on the line, and an all ireland medal at stage....its bizarre...gone is the day where lads would have to be pulled off the pitch...instead we have the best forward on a team wanting to come off at the most crucial time....

Billy Mays

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And Keegan in no way influenced Rock's kick. He tried but he failed, just as Costello tried and probably failed to put Clarke off. He shouldn't be messing with his tees though. Its a new low for gaelic football. If it continues to happen, I can see it leading to huge fights in games.

I'll say it again, he's perfectly entitled to throw the first tee off the 14 yard line as the ball is still in play when Clarke has put it there. Again watch the end of the video and you'll see there's players from both sides in that immediate area as Rock is about to take the kick. It's potentially causing an obstruction while the ball is still in play. I've no idea why people can't see this.

I completely agree he shouldn't be going near Clarke's tees behind the goal. Calling it a new low for gaelic football is a bit much though. You sound like Charlie Redmond.

Shurimgreat

Irish Raven wrote: »

I think Moran had an outstanding year....just one thing is bugging me with all the praise he s getting...having been at the game on sunday...watchin him clearly indicating on several occassions that he wanted to be replaced, with the game on the line, and an all ireland medal at stage....its bizarre...gone is the day where lads would have to be pulled off the pitch...instead we have the best forward on a team wanting to come off at the most crucial time....

He's 33 years old and had played 10 games in 3-4 months. The probability is he was shattered.
McCarthy did very little in the first half while the Mayo midfield ruled. No wonder he had plenty of energy in the last few minutes.

Irish Raven

Shurimgreat wrote:

He's 33 years old and had played 10 games in 3-4 months. The probability is he was shattered. McCarthy did very little in the first half while the Mayo midfield ruled. No wonder he had plenty of energy in the last few minutes.

He was shattered and wanted to come off..and that my friend is why that Mayo team dont have any all irelands in their back pockets!!

Shurimgreat

Irish Raven wrote: »

He was shattered and wanted to come off..and that my friend is why that Mayo team dont have any all irelands in their back pockets!!

Frankly bizarre post.
Every team takes off players all the time. Unless you expect all 15 who started to finish the game?
Dublin took off most of their starting forwards by the way.
You think him hobbling around would help Mayo's cause?

ProudDUB

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Look, this discussion is going around in circles.
My view is:
POTY should be chosen not on the basis of one game, a half of a game or the final "crucial" few minutes of a game.
He should be chosen based on performances throughout the year, and particularly how much they influenced the final result of games, how many games they played well in and were essentially the difference between the sides.
Lee Keegan deserved the award last year as he was the key player in a number of tight games. He could score winning points but also mark the other teams talisman out of it. He was consistent.
So consistency over the course of the year counts.

The question needs to be asked "Who made the biggest impact on the championship?"
My view is it was Moran.

But does every single voter think like that, or vote like that? That is what seems to be the more contentious debate, over and above who actually deserves the bloody award. Your view is the entirely logicial one. When are people always logical 100% of the time?

Take the Dublin v Mayo thing out of the equation for a sec. That aspect of it is blurring peoples opinions. Look at last years Hurler of the Year award instead. Using your statement above, can you really say that Austin Gleeson had a bigger impact on the 2016 championship, than Seamie Callanan who scored 13 pts in the All Ireland final?

Is Austin Gleeson the most naturally gifted player in the game? Probably. Did he have the most impact on the championship? Yes, no, maybe, possibly...or it depends on how you look at it. That is all people are saying - it depends on how you look at it, if you are a voter.

Last year, the voters clearly went with the player who has the most natural ability, with perhaps a slight dollop of sympathy for him, as his skill set was perceived to be straightjacketed by playing on a team with very defensive set up. Maybe there was also a dollop of admiration at the way he put Waterford on his shoulders a la Joe Canning with Galway. Perhaps voters didn't give Callinan the nod, as had more of a supporting cast around him. Who the heck knows...

But can you really say, hand on heart, that got it as he had the most impact on the championship? He may have had the most impact on Waterfords championship season, but on the championship as a whole, when they didn't even make it to the final? See how the logic of your statement above works now....

efwren

Just reading through the last few pages of this and it seems the argument is Moran vs anybody from Dublin!

As a Dub if I had to pick somebody from the Dublin team as player of the year I am not really sure who I'd pick. Given Dublin really only played in 1 serious contest all year it makes it difficult. From a hazy recollection I feel Rock's free taking went up a notch this year as did his contribution from play. I think Mannion had a good year, as did Andrews until the final (although I am not sure there was much decent ball going his way in the first half), I also thought Fitzsimons and Cluxton did too.

However its really hard to pick an overall stand out figure..maybe McCarthy but its tough. Maybe its because the vast majority of the team have been operating at such a high level all year.

As for Andy Moran I think he has been the key figure for Mayo this year.

One thing I would add is that in the final I thought he was brilliant for the first half, however Fitzsimons began to get to grips with him in the second half. They were quite close to where I was located in the ground. It was a brilliant battle and quite a few times Moran was forced to pass as he was getting no room whatsoever from Fitzsimons. Perhaps it was fatigue but the more the second half went on the less worried I was about his influence.

I guess it depends what way you want to want to award these prizes. I certainly would not complain if Moran got it, also I wouldn't complain if Cluxton or McCarthy got it. In Cluxton's case I feel there have been years where he should have certainly got it and he didn't.

Given the way the championship has gone in recent years, where teams really only play at the top level in the last few weeks perhaps its time to re-evaluate all these awards. Should they be based only on semi-finals and finals or on the forthcoming super-8?

Martina1991

naughtb4 wrote: »

Mainly due to his influence in a semi final where he won MotM

McCarthy won his in the final, hence why he wasnt mentioned beforehand.

Mainly due to his consistent ability to put scores on the board and set up others which peaked in the semi.

How many contenders for POTY are only mentioned after the last game.

MayoAreMagic

efwren wrote: »

Just reading through the last few pages of this and it seems the argument is Moran vs anybody from Dublin!

As a Dub if I had to pick somebody from the Dublin team as player of the year I am not really sure who I'd pick. Given Dublin really only played in 1 serious contest all year it makes it difficult. From a hazy recollection I feel Rock's free taking went up a notch this year as did his contribution from play. I think Mannion had a good year, as did Andrews until the final (although I am not sure there was much decent ball going his way in the first half), I also thought Fitzsimons and Cluxton did too.

Well it depends on how you look at that. I agree with you, nobody really stood out massively for Dublin. It just wasn't how their games went this year. However, there was nothing between themselves and mayo in the final, I've never seen a more evenly matched game, they were just the same, and if it went on another while mayo probably equalise again at some point. Yet moran did stand out for mayo, often, including the final. So if they are evenly matched and one guy stands out on one team but not on the other, it would suggest that that guy is playing at a higher level than those on the other team.

JB81

Personally I think Andy Moran should get it.
He has dragged Mayo through a lot this year.

Most of the Dublin players ( although very good footballers ) haven't really had to play much football this year, to be fair.

McCarthy had a good final, but Dublin would still win it without him. Mayo probably would not have got to the final without Moran.

Cluxton deserved it other years, but not so much this year. Again because he really didn't have to do much all year.

In my opinion this is why the All Stars are a bit of a gimmick. The Dublin defense will probably get four all-stars ( McMahon, Cooper, Cluxton, Mc'Caffrey/O'Sullivan ). But the only real bit of 'defending' they had to do all year was for 70-80 minutes on Sunday. And to be fair to Mayo they had them on the racks for a lot of it. They are all amazing footballers but I would'nt class them up there with top class 'defenders' when one on one with someone. Mayo got 10 points from play from their forward line. Plus Moran set up the goal, and O'Connor got three frees.

Hard to see where anyone outside of Mayo and Dublin will get into the All-Star team bar Paul Geaney ( Also can't for the life of me see how James O'Donoghue got a nomination, anyway ). Colm Cavanagh will probably be unlucky to miss out as Parsons and McCarthy had great final and will probably get in, unless the put McCarthy at half forward.

ThunbergsAreGo

JB81 wrote: »

Personally I think Andy Moran should get it.
He has dragged Mayo through a lot this year.

Most of the Dublin players ( although very good footballers ) haven't really had to play much football this year, to be fair.

McCarthy had a good final, but Dublin would still win it without him. Mayo probably would not have got to the final without Moran.

Cluxton deserved it other years, but not so much this year. Again because he really didn't have to do much all year.

In my opinion this is why the All Stars are a bit of a gimmick. The Dublin defense will probably get four all-stars ( McMahon, Cooper, Cluxton, Mc'Caffrey/O'Sullivan ). But the only real bit of 'defending' they had to do all year was for 70-80 minutes on Sunday. And to be fair to Mayo they had them on the racks for a lot of it. They are all amazing footballers but I would'nt class them up there with top class 'defenders' when one on one with someone. Mayo got 10 points from play from their forward line. Plus Moran set up the goal, and O'Connor got three frees.

Hard to see where anyone outside of Mayo and Dublin will get into the All-Star team bar Paul Geaney ( Also can't for the life of me see how James O'Donoghue got a nomination, anyway ). Colm Cavanagh will probably be unlucky to miss out as Parsons and McCarthy had great final and will probably get in, unless the put McCarthy at half forward.

Dublin had many hard battles in the league

They should probably rename it Player of the Championship

ProudDUB

JB81 wrote: »

Personally I think Andy Moran should get it.
He has dragged Mayo through a lot this year.


Most of the Dublin players ( although very good footballers ) haven't really had to play much football this year, to be fair.


McCarthy had a good final, but Dublin would still win it without him. Mayo probably would not have got to the final without Moran.

Cluxton deserved it other years, but not so much this year. Again because he really didn't have to do much all year.

In my opinion this is why the All Stars are a bit of a gimmick. The Dublin defense will probably get four all-stars ( McMahon, Cooper, Cluxton, Mc'Caffrey/O'Sullivan ). But the only real bit of 'defending' they had to do all year was for 70-80 minutes on Sunday. And to be fair to Mayo they had them on the racks for a lot of it. They are all amazing footballers but I would'nt class them up there with top class 'defenders' when one on one with someone. Mayo got 10 points from play from their forward line. Plus Moran set up the goal, and O'Connor got three frees.

Hard to see where anyone outside of Mayo and Dublin will get into the All-Star team bar Paul Geaney ( Also can't for the life of me see how James O'Donoghue got a nomination, anyway ). Colm Cavanagh will probably be unlucky to miss out as Parsons and McCarthy had great final and will probably get in, unless the put McCarthy at half forward.

There is a healthy amount of reverse logic going on there. Yes, Dublin played a lot less football than Mayo. Should they be punished for it come All Star & FOTY time? Is it their fault that they won their provincial championship very comfortably? Is it their fault that they never played so poorly, they were never taken to extra time by Div 2 & 3 teams? Is it their fault they didn't have to go on a long, hard slog through the qualifiers? Is it their fault they didn't have to play in replays at both the quarter final and semi final stages of the championship? No, it is not.

All of the above applies to Mayo players....but they should be judged differently and/or rewarded for it? That makes very little sense to me. If they were that good/influential to begin win, then why was Mayo's road to the AI final, as difficult as it was in the first place? Riddle me that if you will.....

MayoAreMagic

ProudDUB wrote: »

There is a healthy amount of reverse logic going on there. Yes, Dublin played a lot less football than Mayo. Should they be punished for it come All Star & FOTY time? Is it their fault that they won their provincial championship very comfortably? Is it their fault they never played so poorly, they were never taken to extra time by Div 2 & 3 teams? Is it their fault they didn't have to go on a long, hard slog through the qualifiers? Is it their fault they didn't have to play in replays at both the quarter final and semi final stages of the championship? No, it is not.

Yet all of the above applies to Mayo players....and they should be judged differently and/or rewarded for it? That makes very little sense to me. If they were that good/influential to begin win, then why was Mayo's road to the AI final as difficult as it was in the first place? Riddle me that if you will.....

But again, you can look at that another way. Dublin are running all over these teams, with many not even bothering to track for much of the game, such was the hiding dished out, and yet nobody can manage to rival the form moran showed. Surely it is easier to play well in a winning side that is hammering everyone, than a side that is scraping past everyone in extra time and replays? Surely having that level of player around you, makes you better rather than worse, and gives you more opportunity rather than less?

Furthermore, we can take your logic a step further and point out that the likes of Brendan Murphy isn't up for an all star. And should he be punished for playing for a poor team, when he in fact is one of the best mf out there? It isn't his fault the team lost and a guy got him sent off, thereby removing his chance to shine to the level he could do. That is very similar to what you are trying to say here.

The reality is you just have to do it in the games you get to play. Did mayo guys have more opportunities to do this? Yes. But that means they also had more opportunities to play poorly or get turned over, all the while in a squad that isn't as strong as the one the Dublin players find themselves in. They in fact performed, and performances in the bank are what count.

To compare to another sport, what you are saying is like saying that lionel messi playing for Barcelona is poorer equipped to play well and reach the heights than lionel messi playing for Eibar. It is actually crazy logic.

Always_Running

Going by the odds Andy Moran will win the footballer of the year.

blanch152

ProudDUB wrote: »

There is a healthy amount of reverse logic going on there. Yes, Dublin played a lot less football than Mayo. Should they be punished for it come All Star & FOTY time? Is it their fault that they won their provincial championship very comfortably? Is it their fault that they never played so poorly, they were never taken to extra time by Div 2 & 3 teams? Is it their fault they didn't have to go on a long, hard slog through the qualifiers? Is it their fault they didn't have to play in replays at both the quarter final and semi final stages of the championship? No, it is not.

All of the above applies to Mayo players....but they should be judged differently and/or rewarded for it? That makes very little sense to me. If they were that good/influential to begin win, then why was Mayo's road to the AI final, as difficult as it was in the first place? Riddle me that if you will.....

I agree fully with you, and that means I can understand Moran getting player of the year, being singularly outstanding, but that means Dublin should be picking up 9 or 10 All-Stars, yet the same people who want Moran to win will also be pushing 7 or 8 Mayomen for All-Stars.

Barnavave

Always_Running wrote: »

Going by the odds Andy Moran will win the footballer of the year.

I suppose they have to win something.

MayoAreMagic

Barnavave wrote: »

I suppose they have to win something.

There is something very sad about a county winning 3 in a row, and so many of their fans consumed with knocking the team that they beat, rather than going out and enjoying the thing.

There is such a thing as a good winner...