Maximizing the current Rail Infrastructure

Sam Russell

tabbey wrote: »

This is because the diesels are catering for people from north and west who work southeast of the CBD. There are people using Sidney Parade to get to Saint Vincent's Hospital, RTE and UCD.

Exactly, but why only these two services and not ones going in the opposite direction? It is not as if it will change the running time as they are held up by Darts queuing at GCD due to congestion at Connolly.

There is less than two minutes difference between the running time of an all-stations Dart from Bray to Pearse than a limited stop diesel.

tabbey

Sam Russell wrote: »

Exactly, but why only these two services and not ones going in the opposite direction? It is not as if it will change the running time as they are held up by Darts queuing at GCD due to congestion at Connolly.

This brings us back to the priority given to road traffic at these level crossings, which goes against all rational practice.

The southbound trains cross the road and stop, the barrier goes up and cars resume moving,( subject of course to congestion at the lights at Merrion Rd)

Northbound, the barriers come down ahead of the arrival of the train, and remain down until the train departs and clears the crossing, thus annoying the road lobby.

Hence the northbound diesel trains mostly pass through to avoid upsetting motorists.

Sam Russell

tabbey wrote: »

This brings us back to the priority given to road traffic at these level crossings, which goes against all rational practice.

The southbound trains cross the road and stop, the barrier goes up and cars resume moving,( subject of course to congestion at the lights at Merrion Rd)

Northbound, the barriers come down ahead of the arrival of the train, and remain down until the train departs and clears the crossing, thus annoying the road lobby.

Hence the northbound diesel trains mostly pass through to avoid upsetting motorists.

Not quite the case. The gates at SP northbound close at the same time as Merrion Gates for no apparent reason. In the evening, the cars back up over the crossing (west bound) so the gates have little impact, but they are mainly diverting to avoid the Merrion Gates. If the Merrion Gates bridge gets built, and is successful, the bridge will get most/all of this traffic.

The gates are not really a problem (at Sydney Parade) but north bound, the gates are operated by the signalman and not automatically. This adds 30 seconds to an already excessive 3 minutes.

tabbey

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not quite the case. The gates at SP northbound close at the same time as Merrion Gates for no apparent reason. In the evening, the cars back up over the crossing (west bound) so the gates have little impact, but they are mainly diverting to avoid the Merrion Gates. If the Merrion Gates bridge gets built, and is successful, the bridge will get most/all of this traffic.

The gates are not really a problem (at Sydney Parade) but north bound, the gates are operated by the signalman and not automatically. This adds 30 seconds to an already excessive 3 minutes.

I assume you mean the controller at Connolly CTC.
If this is so, why do they not lower the barriers for southbound trains, and do so in good time to avoid delaying trains?

Sam Russell

tabbey wrote: »

I assume you mean the controller at Connolly CTC.
If this is so, why do they not lower the barriers for southbound trains, and do so in good time to avoid delaying trains?

The gates were completely automated a while ago but were 'fixed' after some work - well maybe I am wrong and perhaps the operating point requires the train to be further north than previously. They have now fitted entirely new gates.

I assume 'the signalman' has since been promoted to the newer position of 'controller'.

tabbey

Sam Russell wrote: »

I assume 'the signalman' has since been promoted to the newer position of 'controller'.

Well, he or she works at Centralised Traffic Control.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

a shared platform where. there's no more room for platforms from what i can see at either bray or greystones. anyway no point, may as well have the trains run through and spend the money on passing loops.

You can see an Train in a siding here https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Daly+Station+Bray/@53.2042076,-6.1001832,303a,35y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4867a868f0e83ef9:0x93e90818b4793d3a!8m2!3d53.2044909!4d-6.1008776

Assuming that hasn't changed the platfrom is basically already in place.


You can also see an unused siding at Greystones.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Greystones+Station/@53.1440455,-6.061189,114m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4867af2944395295:0x2456e2d9edac7a2e!8m2!3d53.1440783!4d-6.0610162

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not quite the case. The gates at SP northbound close at the same time as Merrion Gates for no apparent reason. In the evening, the cars back up over the crossing (west bound) so the gates have little impact, but they are mainly diverting to avoid the Merrion Gates. If the Merrion Gates bridge gets built, and is successful, the bridge will get most/all of this traffic.

The gates are not really a problem (at Sydney Parade) but north bound, the gates are operated by the signalman and not automatically. This adds 30 seconds to an already excessive 3 minutes.

The Level crossings are automatically operated by the trains position SP closes for NB trains due to the signal overlap and for safety.

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

The Level crossings are automatically operated by the trains position SP closes for NB trains due to the signal overlap and for safety.

For north bound trains, the gates @ SP, close at the same time as the gates at Merrion Gates - now not even a SGV train would require that. The gates do not close for NB until the train has gone at least 30 to 40 seconds after it clears the gates. Now it has not always been so, as they used to open as the last carriage cleared the gates. Now maybe they have moved the operating point, but the gates are closed nearly 4 mins for NB. If there is going to be a 10 min service, the gates will be closed more than 50% of the time.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

For north bound trains, the gates @ SP, close at the same time as the gates at Merrion Gates - now not even a SGV train would require that. The gates do not close for NB until the train has gone at least 30 to 40 seconds after it clears the gates. Now it has not always been so, as they used to open as the last carriage cleared the gates. Now maybe they have moved the operating point, but the gates are closed nearly 4 mins for NB. If there is going to be a 10 min service, the gates will be closed more than 50% of the time.

I pass over both LC every day and they do not stay closed 30/40 seconds after the train has gone clear. I posted earlier that IE have reduced the closing times for the trains to keep the LC open for the public longer.

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

I pass over both LC every day and they do not stay closed 30/40 seconds after the train has gone clear. I posted earlier that IE have reduced the closing times for the trains to keep the LC open for the public longer.

I will check with a stop watch next time I am near it. It is certain that the SP gate closes for NB trains at the same time as Merrion Gates, while that does not happen for SB trains.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

I will check with a stop watch next time I am near it. It is certain that the SP gate closes for NB trains at the same time as Merrion Gates, while that does not happen for SB trains.

Signal distances are different on the SB line as far as I’m aware the SB train will sit for a couple of seconds on the platform at SP then the gates will come down, for NB trains I don’t think it’s simultaneously but it’s not far off must have a look next time I’m at them.

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

Signal distances are different on the SB line as far as I’m aware the SB train will sit for a couple of seconds on the platform at SP then the gates will come down, for NB trains I don’t think it’s simultaneously but it’s not far off must have a look next time I’m at them.

That is not the case.

There is a detector just past the gates for SB trains. When the last of the train passes, the gates open. For NB trains, the gates close at the same time as Merrion Gates, 700 metres away. They open when the train is 100 metres north of the gates, having been closed while the train travels from the Merrion Gates, stops at the station and then travels another 100 metres up the line.

There is a signal halfway beteween SP and the Merrion Gates and it is when the train passes this SB that the Merrion Gates close. The timing for the Merrion Gates is very tight, unlike those at SP.

When I get the chance, I will time them.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is not the case.

There is a detector just past the gates for SB trains. When the last of the train passes, the gates open. For NB trains, the gates close at the same time as Merrion Gates, 700 metres away. They open when the train is 100 metres north of the gates, having been closed while the train travels from the Merrion Gates, stops at the station and then travels another 100 metres up the line.

There is a signal halfway beteween SP and the Merrion Gates and it is when the train passes this SB that the Merrion Gates close. The timing for the Merrion Gates is very tight, unlike those at SP.

When I get the chance, I will time them.

There is no detector it’s a track circuit when the track circuit for any level crossing clears and once no other train is looking for the LC it will open . The SB and NB signal config is not the same. When you leave Sandymount it’s 1 signal that protects SP and 1 for Merrion when you leave Bootertown it’s 1 signal for Merrion and 2 for SP why I don’t know safety I would say.

Sam Russell

Marty Bird wrote: »

There is no detector it’s a track circuit when the track circuit for any level crossing clears and once no other train is looking for the LC it will open . The SB and NB signal config is not the same. When you leave Sandymount it’s 1 signal that protects SP and 1 for Merrion when you leave Bootertown it’s 1 signal for Merrion and 2 for SP why I don’t know safety I would say.

I would call that a detector.

The NB train causes the SP gates to close at the same time as Merrion Gates, but SB trains do not cause Merrion Gates to close at the same time as SP.

I assume the signal blocks are the same NB and SB.

Marty Bird

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would call that a detector.

The NB train causes the SP gates to close at the same time as Merrion Gates, but SB trains do not cause Merrion Gates to close at the same time as SP.

I assume the signal blocks are the same NB and SB.

Again they are not the same the NB line has 2 signals protecting SP LC and the SB has only one signal protecting Merrion is further away from the platform were the train is stopping but the NB the signal is on the Platform.

metrovick001

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

end of the road

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

that and the pampered roads lobby and pampered large road haulage companies are hugely powerful.

L1011

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
.

About 2012, when the limit for them was 80.

It was increased.

Del.Monte

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

Not to mention the various road haulage firms who routinely force their drivers to work illegal hours. We've one very large company down these parts who are brand leaders for cowboy operations.

rebel456

metrovick001 wrote: »

I always wondered how road haulage would compare to rail transport if the road traffic act was enforced in Ireland (when was the last time ya saw a truck travelling at/under its speed limit of 80KPH? :-) )
With private firms marketing the freight service and shouldering the risk there is potential for container traffic in Ireland (18 trucks require 18 drivers).
The problem appears to be based in Kingsbridge.

end of the road wrote: »

that and the pampered roads lobby and pampered large road haulage companies are hugely powerful.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Not to mention the various road haulage firms who routinely force their drivers to work illegal hours. We've one very large company down these parts who are brand leaders for cowboy operations.

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. The Government, political parties, CIE, NRA, the AA are all in cahoots with each other to stop those meddling trains.

That of course ignores the significant expansion of our motorway network making cross country journeys much shorter - and delivering goods direct from ferry to location without having the transfer while en-route, the lack of major bulk freight in Ireland as opposed to point to point shipping, the little rail strike in 2000 that drove Kingscourt traffic to the roads... small little details. But please continue the conspiring and finger pointing.

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

Yes, it's all a conspiracy. The Government, political parties, CIE, NRA, the AA are all in cahoots with each other to stop those meddling trains.

That of course ignores the significant expansion of our motorway network making cross country journeys much shorter - and delivering goods direct from ferry to location without having the transfer while en-route, the lack of major bulk freight in Ireland as opposed to point to point shipping, the little rail strike in 2000 that drove Kingscourt traffic to the roads... small little details. But please continue the conspiring and finger pointing.

ah, the old, deny, deny, deny.

rebel456

end of the road wrote: »

ah, the old, deny, deny, deny.

What else do you want me to do? Put on dark sunglasses and an overcoat and agree with your bases 'theories'?

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

What else do you want me to do? Put on dark sunglasses and an overcoat and agree with your bases 'theories'?

they aren't baseless. anyone who really knows how this country works will know the government have agendas and really only work in their own interest.

rebel456

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't baseless. anyone who really knows how this country works will know the government have agendas and really only work in their own interest.

Why do you think it is the Government 'agenda' to support road haulage companies then? (and is it just this Government, the past Gov(s) too?)

jimmycrackcorm

end of the road wrote: »

that and the pampered roads lobby and pampered large road haulage companies are hugely powerful.

Care to provide numbers on how many deliveries are blocked by road haulage companies due to union strikes?

Markcheese

I think the problem has more to do with multiple handling the containers either side..

andrewfaulk

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Care to provide numbers on how many deliveries are blocked by road haulage companies due to union strikes?

Jimmy, care to back up your argument.. how many extra trucks were put on the roads by this years rail strikes??

It's not information many people are privy to with rail or road transport, so don't know how you claim to know or how it's going to support your argument

Euppy

Could we put a second platform at the docklands and terminate some of the trains coming from Drogheda there. It would free up the Connolly area which has been a mess since the Park Tunnel was re-opened.

Some of those Drogheda trains already terminate in Connolly, Docklands offers commuters the same access to IFSC as those trains plus it is a short walk to GCD.

I've read that docklands will be a hub for westbound trains only, but this seems a waste.

Any obvious downsides I don't see?

loyatemu

Euppy wrote: »

Could we put a second platform at the docklands and terminate some of the trains coming from Drogheda there. It would free up the Connolly area which has been a mess since the Park Tunnel was re-opened.

Some of those Drogheda trains already terminate in Connolly, Docklands offers commuters the same access to IFSC as those trains plus it is a short walk to GCD.

I've read that docklands will be a hub for westbound trains only, but this seems a waste.

Any obvious downsides I don't see?

I think it isn't currently laid out for northern line trains to use it (though presumably that would be simple to fix).