Maximizing the current Rail Infrastructure

end of the road

bk wrote: »

I'm sorry EOTR but frankly the stats speak for themselves. Just 572 passengers, delaying more frequent services for thousands of people!

BTW extra services now would require an extra train, extra driver and would cause more delays for DART's. Quite clearly extra Rosslare services couldn't be put on now, their is simply no space in the current schedule, nevermind a 10 minute DART schedule for them.

By turning back the Rosslare train at Bray, you could double the schedule on that line, without needing any extra trains or drivers and without interfering with already over congested lines north of Bray. It is an elegant solution.

i'm sorry. more frequent services for thousands of people are not being delayed. extra rosslare services absolutely could be put on now. it would cause barely a blip for darts. there is space in the current schedule, and even could be with a 10 minute frequency if the currently needed passing loops were put in wherever possible. by turning back the rosslare train at bray, you couldn't double the frequency on that line without needing an extra train or driver. the rosslare services are barely a blip in terms of the lines north of bray, that's just over exaggerated fake news. in short, a downgraded solution that would destroy the service putting other services at threat from the same.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'll try asking this again. Why? Why would it kill passenger numbers? Why would changing train make any odds? Why would it increase journey times significantly? Why would the train need to return to the depot? Why?

i already answered your question plenty of times. whether you except or don't, the answers from an actual user, who has been using the line for years and who knows the situation on the ground, is up to you, but it won't change the actual realities.

bk

I'm sorry EOTR, now you are talking about putting in many expensive passing loops at the cost of 10's of millions for just 572 passengers!

Complete insanity!

I'm sorry but their is simply no logic at all to what you are saying.

Terminating Rosslare DARTs at Bray, making platform changes at Bray if needed, introduce 10 minute DARTs and double the Bray line frequency and everyone ends up with a much improved service.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Just 572 passengers a day, the numbers are their in black and white, no avoiding it, that is the reality.



Just 572 people delaying 10's of thousands of people from having a higher frequency of service, meaning less waiting at DART platforms and thus faster overall journeys.



Given a vastly improved service to 10's of thousands of people for the sake of minor inconvenience to 572 passengers.

nobody delaying anyone from having a higher frequency of service. the inconvenience to rosslare passengers, for something else north of bray, that ultimately is debatible as to whether it can offer anything without passing loops that are needed anyway, would be huge and for a service that would be killed off quite quickly, removing a good number of people from public transport, as rosslare trains are often heavily used.

bk wrote: »

I'm sorry EOTR, now you are talking about putting in many expensive passing loops at the cost of 10's of millions for just 572 passengers!

Complete insanity!

I'm sorry but their is simply no logic at all to what you are saying.

Terminating Rosslare DARTs at Bray, making platform changes at Bray if needed, introduce 10 minute DARTs and double the Bray line frequency and everyone ends up with a much improved service.

passing loops will be needed anyway whether rosslare trains run or not, to bolster the capacity and flexability of the lines north of bray. no terminating rosslare trains at bray, no changes for rosslare passengers. otherwise rosslare passengers end up with a downgraded service, for which we won't stand for.

rebel456

end of the road wrote: »

passing loops will be needed anyway whether rosslare trains run or not, to bolster the capacity and flexability of the lines north of bray. no terminating rosslare trains at bray, no changes for rosslare passengers. otherwise rosslare passengers end up with a downgraded service, for which we won't stand for.

With respect EOTR, from reading the posts here, I cannot fathom why changing trains is so bad? Aside from the fairly obvious passenger numbers argument, those who do make the journey to Wexford are still getting the same train service. There is even the good chance frequency could be increased given the fact the DMU could turn back at Bray straight away instead of continuing on into the city.

I use the Tralee line fairly regularly, I hop off at Banteer. I go to Limerick and change at the Junction. Changing trains doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's not a downgrade in service. If IR only did direct services to Tralee they wouldn't sustain a full train every two hours (current frequency), changing at Mallow allows for this. Be open to terminating Wexford services at Bray, it very well may make the journey more appealing to others given the flexibility it allows Irish Rail now its DMU's won't be continuing on the congested line north of Bray.

bk

EOTR I've no idea what you are talking about now. Until now, I've never once heard anyone talk about a plan to add passing loops north of Bray. 10 minute DART's certainly don't need passing loops, why would they?

You'd only need passing loops if you were trying to continue to run Rosslare trains on the same track as the DARTs.

So what you are saying is that we should spend 10's of millions on passing loops so 572 Rosslare passengers journey isn't delayed for 2 to 3 minutes for the benefit of doubling the capacity of 10's of thousands of DART users!

That does not seem logical to me! The whole point of this thread is how to cheaply maximise the use of the existing rail infrastructure. That means increasing passenger numbers without big expense like passing loops.

Terminating Rosslare trains at Bray, thus slightly inconveniencing 572 passengers on that line (while doubling the capacity on their route) in order to allow us to double the frequency and capacity of the DART (the most used form of transport in Irish Rail) for the great benefit of 10's of thousands of people seems like exactly how you maximise the current rail infrastructure.

bk

As mentioned above, I see these changes as being similar to what is going to come out of BusConnects plan.

People will have to get used to the idea that not every train/bus will go right into the city center and that they might have to transfer along the way. But in return is an overall improvement in the capacity, frequency and speed for the majority of users on the network. A sensible series of changes IMO.

Another example would be turning Howth into a shuttle service. It would mean people needing to change to go to Howth, but it would also mean a doubling the frequency of both the DART line north of Howth Junction and the Howth line, another overall win for everyone.

end of the road

rebel456 wrote: »

With respect EOTR, from reading the posts here, I cannot fathom why changing trains is so bad? Aside from the fairly obvious passenger numbers argument, those who do make the journey to Wexford are still getting the same train service. There is even the good chance frequency could be increased given the fact the DMU could turn back at Bray straight away instead of continuing on into the city.

I use the Tralee line fairly regularly, I hop off at Banteer. I go to Limerick and change at the Junction. Changing trains doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's not a downgrade in service. If IR only did direct services to Tralee they wouldn't sustain a full train every two hours (current frequency), changing at Mallow allows for this. Be open to terminating Wexford services at Bray, it very well may make the journey more appealing to others given the flexibility it allows Irish Rail now its DMU's won't be continuing on the congested line north of Bray.

it is not the same service, but a severely downgraded service, for which we the user will not tolerate. frequency increases can happen currently, however IE do not wish to implement them. if they won't do it now they won't do it at all. the DMU can turn back in the capital. the tralee line is not relevant and neither is limerick junction. if IE had direct trains to tralee that did limited stops they could sustain a full train every 2 hours, as the decrease in journey times would attract new users to the service. the users will not be open to terminating wexford trains at bray, dublin is the only terminus we will except. it won't make the journey appealing to more users of the rosslare line and irish rail have huge flexibility as it is . the DMUS will have to continue on the congested lines north of bray to get to their depots.

bk wrote: »

EOTR I've no idea what you are talking about now. Until now, I've never once heard anyone talk about a plan to add passing loops north of Bray. 10 minute DART's certainly don't need passing loops, why would they?

You'd only need passing loops if you were trying to continue to run Rosslare trains on the same track as the DARTs.

So what you are saying is that we should spend 10's of millions on passing loops so 572 Rosslare passengers journey isn't delayed for 2 to 3 minutes for the benefit of doubling the capacity of 10's of thousands of DART users!

That does not seem logical to me! The whole point of this thread is how to cheaply maximise the use of the existing rail infrastructure. That means increasing passenger numbers without big expense like passing loops.

Terminating Rosslare trains at Bray, thus slightly inconveniencing 572 passengers on that line (while doubling the capacity on their route) in order to allow us to double the frequency and capacity of the DART (the most used form of transport in Irish Rail) for the great benefit of 10's of thousands of people seems like exactly how you maximise the current rail infrastructure.

passing loops allow for flexibility to operate the 10 minute dart service, and will be needed whether rosslare trains run or not so that delays have huge potential to be lessened when things go wrong. the passing loops are for dart but would so happen to benefit the decently used rosslare services as well. they woudl benefit dart more. rosslare passengers would be delaid by a lot more then 2 to 3 minutes especially if there is an elderly or disabled person. by the time they would have changed, we would be long on our way toards dublin with the current service. the capacity of dart can be increased by having all 8 car trains. terminating rosslare trains at bray, hugely inconveniencing a good number of passengers, is not an acceptible option. we will fight it. we know what it will lead to for our service.

bk wrote: »

People will have to get used to the idea that not every train/bus will go right into the city center and that they might have to transfer along the way.

we will not tolerate changes of train. train to the city is the only option. all trains running direct to the city from the counties around the country must run direct.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

i already answered your question plenty of times. whether you except or don't, the answers from an actual user, who has been using the line for years and who knows the situation on the ground, is up to you, but it won't change the actual realities.

No you haven't all you've done is repeat this line that the people don't want it and you're refusing to discuss the details. Well if bk's stats are correct who cares what a handful of people want.

end of the road

LeinsterDub wrote: »

No you haven't all you've done is repeat this line that the people don't want it and you're refusing to discuss the details. Well if bk's stats are correct who cares what a handful of people want.

we the user care what we want, the decent number of them which are in the most, full train loads. those who support a railway that benefits all, will i believe, also care that the railway continues to meet the needs of the users of long distance services, as well as suburban services. a railway that works for everyone, is a railway that works.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

we the user care what we want, the decent number of them which are in the most, full train loads. those who support a railway that benefits all, will i believe, also care that the railway continues to meet the needs of the users of long distance services, as well as suburban services. a railway that works for everyone, is a railway that works.

Nope, you and just 571 other people. I'm sorry but that is not a decent number of people as you put it! That is a laughably small number of people holding up better services for 10's of thousands of other users.

And the worst thing about your opinion is that it is actually stopping the Rosslare line from also getting a better service!

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Nope, you and just 571 other people. I'm sorry but that is not a decent number of people as you put it! That is a laughably small number of people holding up better services for 10's of thousands of other users.

And the worst thing about your opinion is that it is actually stopping the Rosslare line from also getting a better service!

the users of the rosslare services are not holding up anything. they are not responsible for the decians made to other rail services. we are not stopping the rosslare line getting a better service, but a worse service. a better service can be delivered currently. irish rail don't wish to do it, like they didn't wish to back in the mid 2000s for when they had to be pushed. irish rail are the only one to blame for us all having a service with lots of room to improve, instead of a good service that involves 10 minute darts and direct services from the capital from wexford, sligo, belfast.

Markcheese

Right, from how I see it, the future of rail in this country is the Dublin area, commuting in and out.. So what ever money that gets spent should really be on the Dublin suburban network...
I assume theres not much capacity to expand either the city stations or the lines running into them.
But is there scope to expand some stations outside the city centre, and not have trains terminate in Connolly station,? And not block up a platform.?
. . There can't be much space for passing loops or 4 lining either.. Is there any way level crossing times could be shortened using either better sensors/cameras? And signaling.. Maybe even adding the equivalent of publicised red light cameras to ticket drivers who gamble with the lights..
. . All with the intention of getting more trains on the same tracks..

I’d agree with such a change on the condition that the frequency was increased. Forcing passengers to change at Bray without an increased service would probably just drive them away. The bus service isn’t great either, I was lucky to get a seat on the morning 133X out of Arklow the one morning I tried.

Sam Russell

Karsini wrote: »

I’d agree with such a change on the condition that the frequency was increased. Forcing passengers to change at Bray without an increased service would probably just drive them away. The bus service isn’t great either, I was lucky to get a seat on the morning 133X out of Arklow the one morning I tried.

There are five trains northbound and four southbound to Wexford each weekday. The first southbound arrives in Wexford at 12.01 pm. If the first northbound train terminated and returned to Wexford, it could arrive at 10.01 am. It could then return to Bray (without going to Rosslare) and be back in Bray by 12.01 pm (maybe sooner depending on driver break times). It makes a lot of sense. If it need service (such as fuel), that can be achieved at Bray.

Extra trains means extra passengers. Faster trains means extra passengers. Crossing platforms to a waiting train does not lose passengers if there is no time lost. Check out the Heuston Limerick or Heuston Tralee services.

DMUs are slower even with limited stops and do not go faster that all station Darts.

bk

Karsini wrote: »

I’d agree with such a change on the condition that the frequency was increased. Forcing passengers to change at Bray without an increased service would probably just drive them away. The bus service isn’t great either, I was lucky to get a seat on the morning 133X out of Arklow the one morning I tried.

Same here, I'd obviously only go with this idea, if it meant:

- Increase in frequency of the DART to 10 minutes or better
- Increase in frequency of trains towards Wexford
- The DART and train timed to keep the waiting time to a minimum.
- Obviously no ticket cost penalty for the transfer.
- Whatever changes needed to be made at Bray to make the transfer as easy and quick as possible.

Honestly I could see it as a win win all round. And it really goes well with the whole point of this thread. It is maximising the the current rail infrastructure for a minimum of cost.

- Doubling the frequency of Bray to Rosslare with no extra trains or drivers needed, total win.
- Doubling the frequency and capacity of DART for just the cost of whatever extra DART's and drivers are needed, an overall cheap cost for how much increased service you get. No major infrastructure changes required.
- Also has a side win of increasing the number of services to Greystones (get DART to Bray, switch onto the increased frequency service to Rosslare).

Honestly I see nothing but win here.

BTW I'd see turning Howth into a shuttle service as a similar easy capacity/frequency increase. Though they would actually have more to complain about then Rosslare line passengers. Rosslare lines passengers would be getting on at the start of the DART line, so pretty much guaranteed a seat, nice. Folks getting on at Howth Junction might be getting onto an already busy DART.

end of the road

Sam Russell wrote: »

There are five trains northbound and four southbound to Wexford each weekday. The first southbound arrives in Wexford at 12.01 pm. If the first northbound train terminated and returned to Wexford, it could arrive at 10.01 am. It could then return to Bray (without going to Rosslare) and be back in Bray by 12.01 pm (maybe sooner depending on driver break times). It makes a lot of sense. If it need service (such as fuel), that can be achieved at Bray.

Extra trains means extra passengers. Faster trains means extra passengers. Crossing platforms to a waiting train does not lose passengers if there is no time lost. Check out the Heuston Limerick or Heuston Tralee services.

DMUs are slower even with limited stops and do not go faster that all station Darts.

servicing can only be done at portlaoise or droghida depots. it is not viable to build a depot at bray.
extra, direct to the capital trains = extra passengers. extra trains with changes and slower journey times = no passengers. crossing platforms for no reason when other direct options exist, causing inconvenience especially for the elderly and disabled who would have to cross bridges or wait to take a lift, loses passengers.
more frequent direct to the capital services can happen, it's irish rail's dislike of this line for "reasons" that prevent them, and everyone else is blamed so that the blame they should be getting gets slightly deflected.
heuston tralee and heuston limerick services are irrelevant to this discussion. they wer austerity services which can now be undone, allowing cork to go non-stop, going in some way to providing the premium, high speed service that cork dublin is supposed to be.
all station darts are a lot slower then limited stop DMU as experienced by myself.
there is no merrit in a downgraded service, which is what will be delivered with your suggestion.

bk wrote: »

Same here, I'd obviously only go with this idea, if it meant:

- Increase in frequency of the DART to 10 minutes or better
- Increase in frequency of trains towards Wexford
- The DART and train timed to keep the waiting time to a minimum.
- Obviously no ticket cost penalty for the transfer.
- Whatever changes needed to be made at Bray to make the transfer as easy and quick as possible.

Honestly I could see it as a win win all round. And it really goes well with the whole point of this thread. It is maximising the the current rail infrastructure for a minimum of cost.

- Doubling the frequency of Bray to Rosslare with no extra trains or drivers needed, total win.
- Doubling the frequency and capacity of DART for just the cost of whatever extra DART's and drivers are needed, an overall cheap cost for how much increased service you get. No major infrastructure changes required.
- Also has a side win of increasing the number of services to Greystones (get DART to Bray, switch onto the increased frequency service to Rosslare).

Honestly I see nothing but win here.

BTW I'd see turning Howth into a shuttle service as a similar easy capacity/frequency increase. Though they would actually have more to complain about then Rosslare line passengers. Rosslare lines passengers would be getting on at the start of the DART line, so pretty much guaranteed a seat, nice. Folks getting on at Howth Junction might be getting onto an already busy DART.

howth would have as much to complain about as rosslare passengers, both of us getting nothing in return ultimately but receiving a downgraded service instead of what we both currently get.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

howth would have as much to complain about as rosslare passengers, both of us getting nothing in return ultimately but receiving a downgraded service instead of what we both currently get.

Both of which would be getting increased services, that is a definite upgrade in the service you both get.

The hilarious thing is, your complaints have caused me from not knowing too much about this line, to looking into it in greater detail and now being convinced this is exactly the type of change that needs to happen.

And convinced that despite your complaints it would actually be to every bodies benefit, including Rosslare line passengers.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

servicing can only be done at portlaoise or droghida depots. it is not viable to build a depot at bray.
extra,

What servicing? It's hardly a daily requirement. Trains requiring servicing can be movedto a depot off peak.

end of the road wrote: »

direct to the capital trains = extra passengers. extra trains with changes and slower journey times = no passengers. crossing platforms for no reason when other direct options exist, causing inconvenience especially for the elderly and disabled who would have to cross bridges or wait to take a lift, loses passengers.

These trains are running practically empty per BK's figures. I don't know where these extra passengers are coming from the service has been in decline for years. As pointed out realigning the platforms would be quite cheap to achieve in the grand scheme of things

end of the road wrote: »

more frequent direct to the capital services can happen, it's irish rail's dislike of this line for "reasons" that prevent them, and everyone else is blamed so that the blame they should be getting gets slightly deflected.

You've made this contention several times before. If there is spare capacity on the main line why isn't it being used for dart and commuter?
Is it because this capacity actually does not exist and you've invented it to suit your agenda?

end of the road wrote: »

heuston tralee and heuston limerick services are irrelevant to this discussion. they wer austerity services which can now be undone, allowing cork to go non-stop, going in some way to providing the premium, high speed service that cork dublin is supposed to be.
all station darts are a lot slower then limited stop DMU as experienced by myself.
there is no merrit in a downgraded service, which is what will be delivered with your suggestion.

In your world direct trains every 3 hours to Dublin is a better service than hourly trains to Dublin with a quick change. It's like the people whining that the green and red line luas aren't going point to point where as the majority are happy to walk for 60 second and have a Luas every 3 minutes.

In less than a year and a half this line will be competing with a motorway to Enniscorthy. Travel time of an hour. You however expect people to wait around for 3 hours before even boarding a train.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Both of which would be getting increased services, that is a definite upgrade in the service you both get.

The hilarious thing is, your complaints have caused me from not knowing too much about this line, to looking into it in greater detail and now being convinced this is exactly the type of change that needs to happen.

And convinced that despite your complaints it would actually be to every bodies benefit, including Rosslare line passengers.

you can be convinced of whatever. but as someone who actually uses the line, who knows damn well there will be no frequency increase, this will be a change i, and many others, will not let happen without a fight. nothing anyone can say will convince me to change my mind on the issue, as i know how things will actually turn out, knowing how IE's mind ultimately works.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

you can be convinced of whatever. but as someone who actually uses the line, who knows damn well there will be no frequency increase, this will be a change i, and many others, will not let happen without a fight. nothing anyone can say will convince me to change my mind on the issue, as i know how things will actually turn out, knowing how IE's mind ultimately works.

If the frequency increase was guaranteed. Enshrined in the constitution guaranteed. Would you support this move?

I have an interest in the Rosslare service due to my own personal situation.

My girlfriend recently got a job in Rathdrum. Neither of us drive (she physically can but isn't licensed in Ireland) so we were hoping to move somewhere central for the two of us. But we quickly discovered that the earliest southbound train to Rathdrum is at 10:53 which is absolutely useless for her. It also has a token bus service that serves no real purpose and isn't any use either. So she had to move south of Rathdrum to ensure that she could get to and from work by rail. Since I work in north Dublin, this means we have to live apart until one or both of us gets driving and/or I find work elsewhere. And I really don't want to drive, I'd probably need counselling just to get me over the fear of it. An increase in frequency would be excellent for us, it would mean that we could probably live in south Dublin or Bray without too much hassle. So I'd welcome any attempts to improve the frequency.

end of the road

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What servicing? It's hardly a daily requirement. Trains requiring servicing can be movedto a depot off peak.

no . they have to go when they have to go.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

These trains are running practically empty per BK's figures. I don't know where these extra passengers are coming from the service has been in decline for years.

the trains are running no where empty, and the decline is reversing. actually using the thing regularly is a beauty, isn't it.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

As pointed out realigning the platforms would be quite cheap to achieve in the grand scheme of things

no point, may as well have it run through.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You've made this contention several times before. If there is spare capacity on the main line why isn't it being used for dart and commuter?
Is it because this capacity actually does not exist and you've invented it to suit your agenda?

you would have to ask irish rail. however, i can safely say it's nothing to do with a few trains running direct from rosslare, which are barely a blip.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In your world non stop trains every 3 hours to Dublin is a better service than hourly trains to Dublin with a quick stop.

an hourly frequency cannot be achieved on the line. 3 hourly is about that will be given change or no change. a 2 hourly frequency can be achieveed currently, irish rail won't give it because it might increase patronage on the line. so no nonsense changes that will delay the journey time quite a bit needed.

end of the road

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's like the people whining that the green and red line luas aren't going point to point where as the majority are happy to walk for 60 second and have a Luas every 3 minutes.

it's nothing of the sort. luas is irrelevant here.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In less than a year this line will be competing with a motorway to Enniscorthy. Travel time of an hour.

it has been competing with motor way and frequent bus services for years. even with the enniscorthy bit you will be lucky if you can do the trip in an hour by road. again, actually knowing the area and traveling via road regularly as well will help you.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You however expect people to wait around for 3 hours before even boarding a train.

irish rail is expecting it. you and others are expecting us on top of that, to have an even more unuser friendly downgraded service. you are throwing all sorts at it and yet it won't work, because those of who actually use, and who know irish rail's mindset, know how it will turn out.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If the frequency increase was guaranteed. Enshrined in the constitution guaranteed. Would you support this move?

no . direct trains to the capital only. providing a convenient, user friendly service.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

you can be convinced of whatever. but as someone who actually uses the line, who knows damn well there will be no frequency increase, this will be a change i, and many others, will not let happen without a fight. nothing anyone can say will convince me to change my mind on the issue, as i know how things will actually turn out, knowing how IE's mind ultimately works.

Oh, let me clarify, I absolutely use the line. Just never south of Greystones like 99% of users of the line.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

no . direct trains to the capital only. providing a convenient, user friendly service.

Not going to happen, 571 people aren't going to be able to block improved services to 10's of thousands of people in South Dublin/Wicklow.

I suspect it will either be some compromise where you change trains, but with increased service or no service at all.

If I was you I'd be fighting for as many improvements as possible to the line in exchange for this compromise. Just fighting for trains to Connolly or nothing, might just end you up with nothing.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

Not going to happen, 571 people aren't going to be able to block improved services to 10's of thousands of people in South Dublin/Wicklow.

I suspect it will either be some compromise where you change trains, but with increased service or no service at all.

If I was you I'd be fighting for as many improvements as possible to the line in exchange for this compromise. Just fighting for trains to Connolly or nothing, might just end you up with nothing.

we will continue to insure we have direct trains to the capital. the large number of people who use the line south of greystones. it is the irish rail blocking the improvements to dart frequency. fighting for trains to connolly won't end us up with nothing as those responsible for giving us nothing for daring to stand up will be held accountible, elected or unelected.

Del.Monte

@ bk and Sam Russell

At least both EOTR and myself post here from our experience as regular travellers on the line whereas the two of you are dealing with it in a theoretical, abstract way and continuing to quote some nonsensical passenger survey doesn't really add to things. The Rosslare/Dublin service, for as long as it continues, will remain running through to Connolly - you heard it here first!

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

no . direct trains to the capital only. providing a convenient, user friendly service.

Well there you have it folks. Never, never, never. You'd be happy with an open cattle wagon trundling along at 5 miles an hour as long as it eventually gets to Dublin direct. While the rest of us have time pressures to consider and can't wait hours for a train

Isambard

isn't the solution to integrate the Rosslare service into the Dart service by assimilating the traction so that an up Rosslare train would become a DART service at Bray replacing a down DART in the diagram which could be sidelined there until a later time or alternatively units could be split or coupled there to acheive the same effect. It would mean electifying to Rosslare or dual mode units I guess, but surely that's got to be a better solution than killing off the Rosslare line altogether by having to change at Bray.

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

@ bk and Sam Russell

At least both EOTR and myself post here from our experience as regular travellers on the line whereas the two of you are dealing with it in a theoretical, abstract way and continuing to quote some nonsensical passenger survey doesn't really add to things. The Rosslare/Dublin service, for as long as it continues, will remain running through to Connolly - you heard it here first!

Given the recent political talk. It may not continue much longer.

This entire thread is about theoretical improvements. Attacking the statistics as false is a extremely poor argument. If you have other figures that illustrate that contrary please provide them.