Pro14 2017-18 season thread

connachta

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I was reading Planet Rugby a while ago and a SA guy was saying the 18 teams with 3 conferences could suit the SAs very well.

10 home/away games against their fellow SAs
Then you have 12 games against the teams from the other 2 conferences, 6 home and 6 away - so only 6 away games in the NH. 2 away games per trip means only 3 trips up to the NH in the regular season.

I see they are looking for a flight sponsor to cover the tournament.

The expanded tournament must also be very attractive for big sponsors - the likes of Guiness,  Irish food companies looking to break into Africa and vice versa for SA companies looking to Europe.

So
6 Saffers
4 Irish 1 Scottish 1 Italian
4 Welsh 1 Scottish 1 Italian

Italian derby won't be an issue, but The end of the home-and-away 1872 Cup could be in Scotland

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

So
6 Saffers
4 Irish 1 Scottish 1 Italian
4 Welsh 1 Scottish 1 Italian

Italian derby won't be an issue, but The end of the home-and-away 1872 Cup could be in Scotland

No. You'd keep the Italians and Scots together so they'd have their derbies.

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

So
6 Saffers
4 Irish 1 Scottish 1 Italian
4 Welsh 1 Scottish 1 Italian

Italian derby won't be an issue, but The end of the home-and-away 1872 Cup could be in Scotland

No. You'd keep the Italians and Scots together so they'd have their derbies.

I've thought about it but so unbalanced between conferences in this case.
If it happens that way I think Welsh should be with Scottish every year
In this case you'd have
2 powerful team in each conference : Leinster/Munster and Scarlets/Glsagow
2 middle-ranked team : Ulster/Connacht and Ospreys/Cardiff
1 average team :  Treviso and Edinburgh
1 weak team : Zebre and Dragons

Tigerandahalf

connachta wrote: »

So
6 Saffers
4 Irish 1 Scottish 1 Italian
4 Welsh 1 Scottish 1 Italian

Italian derby won't be an issue, but The end of the home-and-away 1872 Cup could be in Scotland

No my guess would be
6 SAs in 1 conference but the other conferences would be mixed as they are now. The Irish derbies are becoming pretty redundant with weak sides being put out and fans just aren't buying it.

One thing to note is the Bulls haven't been mentioned thus far. But we mentioned recently here how the Bulls are close to bankruptcy so maybe that's the reason they are being kept out of the conversation thus far.
https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/bulls-rocked-by-financial-crisis-20180312

Dubinusa

Sa rugby is a mess right now. The players seem to get into the sides and flee asap. It's mindboggling. I just checked the squads for the cheetahs and the lions and there's not one foreigner on either team. I don't know if Erasmus can turn the books around by the world cup. They were no better than a tier 2 side over the autumn internationals. I guess the economy must be dire to have so many lads leave. Hopefully that changes as I would like to see their best players play for their home teams.

swiwi_

Walesonline strikes again. Clickbait did the trick...even to the point of the SANZAAR boss having to release an official rebuttal.

Neil3030

Pro14 teams now earning approx £2m per year with the new TV deal, which I'm sure would go a long way in South Africa. Plus a shorter flight, and all matches played at good broadcasting times. It's not completely implausible that more SA teams would want to leave Super Rugby.

Tigerandahalf

swiwi_ wrote: »

Walesonline strikes again. Clickbait did the trick...even to the point of the SANZAAR boss having to release an official rebuttal.

Well you wouldn't expect him to admit his competition was in real trouble.

If it is a red herring what do they want - more money, better fixtures?

Going to Europe is one way to draw their top players back to playing with SA. Staying in SANAAR won't stop that I guess.

It may be possible that SA want their hands in both hemispheres. They have been pushing towards 8 professional teams - perhaps 4 up north and 4 in Super. If the pro14 end up with 4 sub standard SA teams it won't be good.

sydthebeat

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Going to Europe is one way to draw their top players back to playing with SA..

How exactly??

prawnsambo

sydthebeat wrote: »

How exactly??

There'd be more money presumably. If they can join the Champions Cup, that would mean even more. So they would be able to pay higher wages and hold on to more of their players.

icdg

It was the headline story in today’s Irish Times sports supplement:

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/natal-sharks-and-another-south-african-side-to-join-pro-14-1.3486294?mode=amp

Neil3030

If the SA TV audience gets invested in the Pro14 it will mean more money for SA teams from SA broadcasters alone. You potentially have every league game on at a prime broadcast time, in contrast to Super Rugby where it's mostly only the SA teams' home games.

Just stole this from reddit, overview of attendance figures for the season:



If anyone is a regular on there please thank the author, I haven't a rashers what my old login is.

ScrubsfanChris

Surprised to see Dragons in 5th. Some die hard Welsh fans they are.

Bazzo

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Surprised to see Dragons in 5th. Some die hard Welsh fans they are.

Dragons and Cardiff's numbers are doubled(more than doubled for Dragons) by judgement day. Not sure why it doesn't seem to be the same for Ospreys and Scarlets. In reality Dragons are behind Connacht and Cardiff just ahead of them.

Rigor Mortis

Bazzo wrote: »

Dragons and Cardiff's numbers are doubled(more than doubled for Dragons) by judgement day. Not sure why it doesn't seem to be the same for Ospreys and Scarlets. In reality Dragons are behind Connacht and Cardiff just ahead of them.

I think Dragons and Cardiff were the designated home teams for those games. They surrendered their home advantage this year.

ScrubsfanChris

Bazzo wrote: »

Dragons and Cardiff's numbers are doubled(more than doubled for Dragons) by judgement day. Not sure why it doesn't seem to be the same for Ospreys and Scarlets. In reality Dragons are behind Connacht and Cardiff just ahead of them.

Ah missed that.
Watched a bit of those judgement day silliness games. No way there was any more than 40,000 never mind 62,000

snotboogie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just stole this from reddit, overview of attendance figures for the season:



If anyone is a regular on there please thank the author, I haven't a rashers what my old login is.

Outside of Leinster, Ulster and Munster those are shocking numbers. Take those three out and it's essentially League of Ireland stuff with one or two marquee fixtures to bolster the average. Cork City had more through their gate than Connacht last year...

jacothelad

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Surprised to see Dragons in 5th. Some die hard Welsh fans they are.

62388 Counted for both Cardiff and Dragons which is clearly bollox.

Neil3030

Median values or GTFO

Bazzo

snotboogie wrote: »

Outside of Leinster, Ulster and Munster those are shocking numbers. Take those three out and it's essentially League of Ireland stuff with one or two marquee fixtures to bolster the average. Cork City had more through their gate than Connacht last year...

Considering the capacity of the sportsground is ~6200 without bringing in extra terracing Connacht's average attendance is over 90% of their regular capacity...

EDIT: Also, having looked up the numbers from last year, Cork City(the best attendad LoI team) had far less through the gate than Connacht both in total and on average so no idea where you got that from.

snotboogie

Bazzo wrote: »

Considering the capacity of the sportsground is ~6200 without bringing in extra terracing Connacht's average attendance is over 90% of their regular capacity...

EDIT: Also, having looked up the numbers from last year, Cork City(the best attendad LoI team) had far less through the gate than Connacht both in total and on average so no idea where you got that from.

Where did you get that from? Cork City had 73k total in 2017: http://www.extratime.ie/articles/20256/25-increase-in-attendances-for-league-of-ireland/ Far more than Connacht overall but yes less on average

Former Former

You'd need to figure out who's declaring attendance and who's declaring tickets sold.

Certainly those Munster figures are tickets sold, not actual people through the turnstile - but maybe all the others are too.

Interesting anyway.

Bazzo

snotboogie wrote: »

Where did you get that from? Cork City had 73k total in 2017: http://www.extratime.ie/articles/20256/25-increase-in-attendances-for-league-of-ireland/ Far more than Connacht overall but yes less on average

Yeah sorry from the same site but the article was from before the season ended. Average attendance is significantly less, they play far more games so more total through the gate is not a good comparison.

Neil3030

I'd be interested to see home attendances per team, but sorted by who the away team were. I.e., who are the biggest draws.

snotboogie

Bazzo wrote: »

Yeah sorry from the same site but the article was from before the season ended. Average attendance is significantly less, they play far more games so more total through the gate is not a good comparison.

16 vs 10 and obviously the LOI teams are hampered by Monday night games and capacity, for instance the Cork City attendance is capped at 5.5k for most games and at just over 6k for the biggest ties. I'm not having a pop at Connacht, just trying to emphasize my shock at the figures. The fact that top end LOI teams have comparable attendance figures to Pro 14 teams outside of Italy is pretty shocking to me.

Heres Johnny

Big drop from Leinster Ulster and Munster to the rest.
Just shows the league does need a new injection whether it's getting South Africa fully behind the pro16/18 or whatever and maybe a US expansion.

Although I wonder what tv viewerships are like compared to Aviva premiership or top 14.

I actually think, in time, it will be a European Super league we will be watching combining the 3 leagues and European cups. Could be a while though. But I do think it will happen

Podge_irl

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Big drop from Leinster Ulster and Munster to the rest.
Just shows the league does need a new injection whether it's getting South Africa fully behind the pro16/18 or whatever and maybe a US expansion.

Although I wonder what tv viewerships are like compared to Aviva premiership or top 14.

I actually think, in time, it will be a European Super league we will be watching combining the 3 leagues and European cups. Could be a while though. But I do think it will happen

Whatever about the English, the chances of the French abandoning the Top14 are extremely close to zero.

Dave_The_Sheep

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Although I wonder what tv viewerships are like compared to Aviva premiership or top 14.

Again, cogged from Reddit:

Bridge93

Well as said, Connacht are operating near capacity. Glasgow are at 7,351 for every game which suggests a capacity too