Anti-vaxxers

mikeorange

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Only gullible people who've chosen to follow the conspiracy theory narrative rather than the science believe this

The science is flimsy at best though, governments making it up as they go along in most cases, I don't blame anyone having doubts and questions about what's going on.

mikeorange

mikeorange wrote: »

The science is flimsy at best though, governments making it up as they go along in most cases, I don't blame anyone having doubts and questions about what's going on.

Can you point me to some journals etc that say the science is weak or flimsy?

Pinch Flat

mikeorange wrote: »

The science is flimsy at best though, governments making it up as they go along in most cases, I don't blame anyone having doubts and questions about what's going on.

I get it that people have used their knowledge gained through conspiracy theories to rationalise their own thought process around whats going on but stating its a scam is not factually correct either. Go to any hospital that's been dealing with the virus and I'm sure the staff will put you right. That's of course if you don't believe that the hospitals were empty during the peaks of the virus:rolleyes:.

CramCycle

mikeorange wrote: »

The science is flimsy at best though, governments making it up as they go along in most cases, I don't blame anyone having doubts and questions about what's going on.

Nothing wrong with questions, it is when they are put forth as a statement, or when they are attached to unsubstantiated claims or out right untruths it is hard to tolerate. I realise that it is hard to see. A great example is fomite transmission or the children super spreaders ideas from last year. These were based on prior experience of similar viruses (epidemiological wise) and until the data was there, these were solid theories to act on. Since then, we have seen that with this virus, mainly due to the key receptors it uses as a target, children can catch it and spread it but they do so at a far lower level than someone who is past puberty, to the point where they really are not a concern. So the rules changed. The same with fomite transmission, so you had people washing down everything coming into the house, or stripping outside. Seems like overkill now and it was but at the time, without knowing any better, it was the safest course of action. Those who look back and laugh at the cautious or claim they are in some way not intelligent because the rules have changed based on new evidence are truly the ones to watch out for.

There is nothing wrong with questions so long as someone is asking them in good faith and willing to listen to the answers.

mikeorange

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I get it that people have used their knowledge gained through conspiracy theories to rationalise their own thought process around whats going on but stating its a scam is not factually correct either. Go to any hospital that's been dealing with the virus and I'm sure the staff will put you right. That's of course if you don't believe that the hospitals were empty during the peaks of the virus:rolleyes:.

I'm a nurse myself, so have some idea, thanks

secman

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The pandemic and the vaccine are quite clearly a scam.
We know that less than 1% of the population have died and that practically nobody of working age has died or got seriously ill.
We know the pcr tests give false postives and negatives and are next to useless.
Despite masks social distancing and lockdowns the virus spread.
International travel and the reopening of hospitality and entertainment and workplaces has been held up with threats people who are unvaccinated cannot return to normal life.
That's the only reason why most people are taking it.
So this whole thing is bs.
Everyone knows it

I have a brother just like you, sometimes i don't know whether to laugh or cry when he spouts out utter conspiracy rubbish . Sad to be honest that his mind works in such a manner, unsurprisingly he's an aging bachelor living alone with obviously too much alone time on his hands.

paul71

mikeorange wrote: »

The science is flimsy at best though, governments making it up as they go along in most cases, I don't blame anyone having doubts and questions about what's going on.

Why do you think governments are making it up? They are acting on the advice of medical professionals, who in turn are dealing with a new virus, a virus that has killed 3.5 million people.

And given that appalling number would you not agree that to err on the side of caution is the best course?

mikeorange

CramCycle wrote: »

Those who look back and laugh at the cautious or claim they are in some way not intelligent because the rules have changed based on new evidence are truly the ones to watch out for.

.

I would disagree tbh, we were anything but cautious in Ireland, we only started using masks in our nursing home last summer, HIQA adviced against it for months,when the science out of other countries showed the virus to be respitatory and airbourne early on

Most staff took it on themselves to source and wear masks, with sniggers from some.

ancapailldorcha

secman wrote: »

I have a brother just like you, sometimes i don't know whether to laugh or cry when he spouts out utter conspiracy rubbish . Sad to be honest that his mind works in such a manner, unsurprisingly he's an aging bachelor living alone with obviously too much alone time on his hands.

Leave us ageing bachelors out of it!

Seriously, though I'd a friend who kept coming out with all sorts of right wing canards and was drinking heavily. He got a girlfriend and calmed down quite a bit.

Capt'n Midnight

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The pandemic and the vaccine are quite clearly a scam.

Pandemic has attracted the usual scam artists.

A windfall tax on billionaires could have paid for everything. But they are now 27% or thereabouts richer in just a year. Instead the rest of us will most likely see retirement age pushed back, again to pay for it.

We know that less than 1% of the population have died and that practically nobody of working age has died or got seriously ill.

Retirement was set to be 67 this year.

What will your retirement age be ?

Former Former Former

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Pandemic has attracted the usual scam artists.

A windfall tax on billionaires could have paid for everything. But they are now 27% or thereabouts richer in just a year. Instead the rest of us will most likely see retirement age pushed back, again to pay for it.

Retirement was set to be 67 this year.

What will your retirement age be ?

How many billionaires do you think we have in Ireland?

This is awful nonsense.

Capt'n Midnight

Former Former Former wrote: »

How many billionaires do you think we have in Ireland?

This is awful nonsense.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0125/1191804-oxfam-pandemic-billionaires-inequality/

Former Former Former

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0125/1191804-oxfam-pandemic-billionaires-inequality/

Soooo, their wealth grew by 3.3 billion. There's no data behind that figure but let's assume it's right.

The cost of Covid to the Irish state is over 20 billion so far, and expected to hit 30 billion by the end of the year.

Do you see the problem with your proposal?

This is anti-vaxx logic applied to economics. And I use the word 'logic' extremely loosely.

Ash.J.Williams

There’s been a notable lack of men with visible mental health issues peddling anti vax bile from their cars since the beginning of the pandemic, where did they go ?

The recalled a lack of self awareness in what they were saying

Qiaonasen

I am not an anti vaxxer at all but the thoughts that people who are getting vaccinated are going to be given special rights is a bit annoying and puts me off taking the vaccine on principle. Here in Germany if you are vaccinated you will have to follow very little restrictions. I honestly think this isn't the way to tackle anti vaxxers. They need to be beaten with logic.

Seth Brundle

Qiaonasen wrote: »

I am not an anti vaxxer at all but the thoughts that people who are getting vaccinated are going to be given special rights is a bit annoying and puts me off taking the vaccine on principle. Here in Germany if you are vaccinated you will have to follow very little restrictions. I honestly think this isn't the way to tackle anti vaxxers. They need to be beaten with logic.

Vaccinated people will not be getting special rights.
It may be the case that those who aren't vaccinated (without fair reason) may not be able to enter certain buildings, etc.
Think of it in the same way that an employer can decide not to admit an employee who chooses not to become vaccinated because they need to protect employees who cannot be vaccinated.
Some businesses or organisations may also apply this logic towards customers e.g. airlines.
But this is clearly a good thing so is nothing to worry about!

ancapailldorcha

Qiaonasen wrote: »

I am not an anti vaxxer at all but the thoughts that people who are getting vaccinated are going to be given special rights is a bit annoying and puts me off taking the vaccine on principle. Here in Germany if you are vaccinated you will have to follow very little restrictions. I honestly think this isn't the way to tackle anti vaxxers. They need to be beaten with logic.

They have no interest in logic, hence the idea of vaccine passports. The vaccine is the only way to get through this pandemic. In areas of reduced uptake in the UK, the virus is mutating due to have the space to replicate.

I don't like the idea of vaccine passports but if it's the only way out of lockdown despite anti-vaxxers attempts to the contrary then so be it.

GT89

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Vaccinated people will not be getting special rights.
It may be the case that those who aren't vaccinated (without fair reason) may not be able to enter certain buildings, etc.
Think of it in the same way that an employer can decide not to admit an employee who chooses not to become vaccinated because they need to protect employees who cannot be vaccinated.
Some businesses or organisations may also apply this logic towards customers e.g. airlines.
But this is clearly a good thing so is nothing to worry about!

Clearly a good thing until they start saying a second dose isn't good enough you need a third and so on and the covid vaccine becomes annual. Tbh I think now the vaccine won't be mandatory the authorities will just make life a hassle for people who won't take the vaccine having to take tests everything they fly.

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

Clearly a good thing until they start saying a second dose isn't good enough you need a third and so on and the covid vaccine becomes annual. Tbh I think now the vaccine won't be mandatory the authorities will just make life a hassle for people who won't take the vaccine having to take tests everything they fly.

Booster shots aren't unusual, also I get a flu vaccine every year so I don't consider it very different. On top of that, if it prevents large-scale deaths as we've seen in the last year, it's completely worth it.

GT89

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Booster shots aren't unusual, also I get a flu vaccine every year so I don't consider it very different. On top of that, if it prevents large-scale deaths as we've seen in the last year, it's completely worth it.

People don't want to get shots every year just to make it less hassle for me to go on holidays. I have never taken the flu vaccine in my life as I trust my immune systems response should I contract influenza. People should be allowed to make their own decisions about what they feel is best for their health.

ancapailldorcha

GT89 wrote: »

People don't want to get shots every year just to make it less hassle for me to go on holidays. I have never taken the flu vaccine in my life as I trust my immune systems response should I contract influenza. People should be allowed to make their own decisions about what they feel is best for their health.

And countries should be allowed to send anti-vaxxers back to where they came from just as airlines should be allowed to minimise risk to passengers' health.

Sardonicat

GT89 wrote: »

Clearly a good thing until they start saying a second dose isn't good enough you need a third and so on and the covid vaccine becomes annual. Tbh I think now the vaccine won't be mandatory the authorities will just make life a hassle for people who won't take the vaccine having to take tests everything they fly.

Aren't we lucky to be living in an age where vaccines are available?

GT89

GT89 wrote: »

People don't want to get shots every year just to make it less hassle for me to go on holidays. I have never taken the flu vaccine in my life as I trust my immune systems response should I contract influenza. People should be allowed to make their own decisions about what they feel is best for their health.

And covid is a far greater risk than the flu. You're free to make your decision but if it results in hassle in your life, that's your choice.

I also imagine most couldn't care less about getting annual shots. If you're considering that to be an upset to your life, I've had to go on a drip every two months for years to cover a chronic illness. I've also had relatively healthy family members who narrowly avoided death from covid. I imagine most have had similar experiences during the last year. So I imagine most will be happy to get vaccinated for that reason.

If nations reject tourists due to lack of vaccines, they have every right to do so and there's a level of sense to doing so.

Jerry Attrick

GT89 wrote: »

Clearly a good thing until they start saying a second dose isn't good enough you need a third and so on and the covid vaccine becomes annual. Tbh I think now the vaccine won't be mandatory the authorities will just make life a hassle for people who won't take the vaccine having to take tests everything they fly.

I'd find being obliged to have annual covid vaccine almost as objectionable as being obliged to accept my annual salary increment.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

People don't want to get shots every year just to make it less hassle for me to go on holidays. I have never taken the flu vaccine in my life as I trust my immune systems response should I contract influenza. People should be allowed to make their own decisions about what they feel is best for their health.

People put their own beliefs above the health of others, that's the issue.

You, for example, openly believe this whole pandemic was "planned" and is a "scam". People are capable of having uninformed beliefs that threaten not only their own health, but the health of others.

Former Former Former

Qiaonasen wrote: »

I am not an anti vaxxer at all but the thoughts that people who are getting vaccinated are going to be given special rights is a bit annoying and puts me off taking the vaccine on principle. Here in Germany if you are vaccinated you will have to follow very little restrictions. I honestly think this isn't the way to tackle anti vaxxers. They need to be beaten with logic.

You cannot use a logical argument to defeat an illogical positon. That's the problem. If logic was the answer, this discussion would have been over months ago.

I don't understand why this puts you off getting the vaccine though?

In reality, the anti-vaxxers will simply ignore the rules and follow the rules that are set out for vaccinated people. If they're challenged, they will lie and say they have been vaccinated. They are inherently immoral people so they won't think twice about it if it means they can go the pub or whatever.

The only downside is when enough people get vaccinated, our herd immunity will protect these people too, thus confirming their belief that vaccines don't work and aren't necessary.

I would be in favour of restricting social welfare and access to the public heath service to those who are vaccinated. I know that will never happen but if people really believe in the state not interfering with their lives, let's see how strong their convictions are. Not very strong, I would guess.

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Vaccinated people will not be getting special rights.
It may be the case that those who aren't vaccinated (without fair reason) may not be able to enter certain buildings, etc.
Think of it in the same way that an employer can decide not to admit an employee who chooses not to become vaccinated because they need to protect employees who cannot be vaccinated.
Some businesses or organisations may also apply this logic towards customers e.g. airlines.
But this is clearly a good thing so is nothing to worry about!

really inspiring stuff there...:cool:

mikeorange

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

In areas of reduced uptake in the UK, the virus is mutating due to have the space to replicate.

I don't like the idea of vaccine passports but if it's the only way out of lockdown despite anti-vaxxers attempts to the contrary then so be it.

How do you know it's not the vaccine's that are causing the virus to mutate?

ancapailldorcha

mikeorange wrote: »

How do you know it's not the vaccine's that are causing the virus to mutate?

Because the very idea is absurd.

mikeorange

Deleted User wrote: »

And covid is a far greater risk than the flu.

To certain groups

Kids?