Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

Do you have pictures? They really should be using the same ones that went for the new stops for the 175 for the new services, since these are the best ones.

They are same length as original display boards.

No map style layout on it.

Aw139

A driver said .they can't use the facilities in the station ..so any where they can get a meal. Or a quick dash to the wheterspoons or Insomnia ..I've seen a few of them in there getting a coffee .

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Do you have pictures? They really should be using the same ones that went for the new stops for the 175 for the new services, since these are the best ones.

I didn't as I only noticed them while driving. They were on the stop across the road from Dunnes in Cornelscourt and I also saw them on a stop in Sandyford Ind. Estate.

normanoffside

What’s the difference between 75 and 75a?

KD345

devnull wrote: »

Do you have pictures? They really should be using the same ones that went for the new stops for the 175 for the new services, since these are the best ones.

I disagree Devnull, they are full of errors and inaccurate information. They are missing lots of important points and the spider maps could be much better.

KD345

normanoffside wrote: »

What’s the difference between 75 and 75a?

The 75a serves Sandyford Business District.

Stephen15

normanoffside wrote: »

What’s the difference between 75 and 75a?

The 75 journies via Sandyford Industrial Estate are now called the 75a.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

I disagree Devnull, they are full of errors and inaccurate information. They are missing lots of important points and the spider maps could be much better.

The fact they have spider maps and they have stop specific times alone is a big improvement over the Dublin Bus ones which are very poor by international standards since the DB ones require a geographical knowledge of Dublin to have some kind of idea of when the bus might turn up and also don't list stops.

What errors did you see out of curiosity? I know the stages are not marked and that needs to be resolved, but they are not on every type of stop that Dublin Bus operate either (but I grant you that some types of stop have them)

KD345

devnull wrote: »

The fact they have spider maps and they have stop specific times alone is a big improvement over the Dublin Bus ones which are very poor by international standards since the DB ones require a geographical knowledge of Dublin to have some kind of idea of when the bus might turn up and also don't list stops.

What errors did you see out of curiosity? I know the stages are not marked and that needs to be resolved, but they are not on every type of stop that Dublin Bus operate either (but I grant you that some types of stop have them)

The old Dublin Bus timetable panels were not perfect but they had improved over the years to be generally informative of the route, destination and places served.

Now, instead of stating the destination of the route, the NTA have chosen to use the description of the second part of the last stop on the route. This is quite specific and can be confusing. For example, instead of Clare Hall being shown for the 27 it now shows “Towards Templeview Avenue”. The timetables no longer show route variations or footnotes, so for the last few buses from Jobstown which only operate to the city centre these timetables state they operate the complete route - not great for a cross city route if you’re travelling late at night. This issue is perhaps best highlighted for the 145 to Ballwaltrim. Only 4 buses per day run to Kilmacanogue but the timetable suggests every departure runs there.

There are lots of other errors, on the 17 it shows that buses operate to Nutley Avenue. This of course should show Blackrock. The destination of Nutley Avenue comes from the three Saturday journeys to St. Vincent’s Hospital, where Nutley Avenue is the small junction off Nutley Lane near where the stop is located. There is nothing to show the 17 operates to Blackrock.

The 65 is a route which serves three different termini, Blessington, Ballymore and Ballyknockan. The timetable just says “Towards The Schoolhouse”, which offers no information to the passenger. Nothing to tell which bus is which.

The most annoying thing is the removal of the places served along the route. To use the 27 as an example again, it serves Tallaght, Walkinstown, Crumlin, The Coombe, City Centre, Fairview, Artane and Coolock. However, unless there is a spider map the timetable just shows Templeview Avenue.

I do wonder if anybody at NTA/TFI looked over these to check if they were a suitable replacement for what was on the panel originally. It suggests the designer had no local knowledge of the service and area and just copied and pasted without thinking of the person standing at the stop.

The spider maps are per operator but should be combined together for the passenger. That’s how spider maps work best.

Excuse the poor quality photos.

Stephen15

I know this sounds very pedantic but I also noticed that the 75 on it's LED displays now just shows simply Tallaght since GAI started operating it. Tallaght as most would know is a broad area and just showing simply Tallaght to an outsider could mean anywhere in Tallaght such as Jobstown, Killinarden, Fettercairn, Old Bawn, Tymon or Kilmanagh. DB buses have generally displayed Tallaght Square which most would know as the centre of Tallaght.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

The old Dublin Bus timetable panels were not perfect but they had improved over the years to be generally informative of the route, destination and places served.

Now, instead of stating the destination of the route, the NTA have chosen to use the description of the second part of the last stop on the route. This is quite specific and can be confusing. For example, instead of Clare Hall being shown for the 27 it now shows “Towards Templeview Avenue”. The timetables no longer show route variations or footnotes, so for the last few buses from Jobstown which only operate to the city centre these timetables state they operate the complete route - not great for a cross city route if you’re travelling late at night. This issue is perhaps best highlighted for the 145 to Ballwaltrim. Only 4 buses per day run to Kilmacanogue but the timetable suggests every departure runs there.

There are lots of other errors, on the 17 it shows that buses operate to Nutley Avenue. This of course should show Blackrock. The destination of Nutley Avenue comes from the three Saturday journeys to St. Vincent’s Hospital, where Nutley Avenue is the small junction off Nutley Lane near where the stop is located. There is nothing to show the 17 operates to Blackrock.

The 65 is a route which serves three different termini, Blessington, Ballymore and Ballyknockan. The timetable just says “Towards The Schoolhouse”, which offers no information to the passenger. Nothing to tell which bus is which.

The most annoying thing is the removal of the places served along the route. To use the 27 as an example again, it serves Tallaght, Walkinstown, Crumlin, The Coombe, City Centre, Fairview, Artane and Coolock. However, unless there is a spider map the timetable just shows Templeview Avenue.

I do wonder if anybody at NTA/TFI looked over these to check if they were a suitable replacement for what was on the panel originally. It suggests the designer had no local knowledge of the service and area and just copied and pasted without thinking of the person standing at the stop.

The spider maps are per operator but should be combined together for the passenger. That’s how spider maps work best.

Excuse the poor quality photos.

I had only seen the 175 ones on the brand new stops and the shelters with a full spider map on one route - I hadn't seen the other ones.

You make very valid points about those, I generally like the design but the lack of footnotes and not using destination names, using towards the second last stop and not the terminus and not noting variations are certainly problems which they need to address without doubt. Also for the pole stops with no spider diagrams I agree that they need the information of some of the places called en-route rather than just a basic timetable as you've shown.

I think the general layout of the new stops is a step forward, but they need to add these details to them, which shouldn't mean they need to change the layout much, but at the moment they are lacking key details - I just haven't seen these kind of stops with such layout myself yet, as I said the new 175 stops and one or two of the shelters I have seen and these issues are not so apparent there.

As for DB and Go-Ahead services having different spider maps, totally see where you are coming from with that too, for sure would be better but I dare say that there might be reasons that they are kept separate, since I doubt DB want to see their brand totally eroded at bus stops since I'd say it's a quite big pill for them to swallow already.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know this sounds very pedantic but I also noticed that the 75 on it's LED displays now just shows simply Tallaght since GAI started operating it. Tallaght as most would know is a broad area and just showing simply Tallaght to an outsider could mean anywhere in Tallaght such as Jobstown, Killinarden, Fettercairn, Old Bawn, Tymon or Kilmanagh. DB buses have generally displayed Tallaght Square which most would know as the centre of Tallaght.

The ones I saw alternate between

Tallaght
The Square

Tallaght
Tamhlacht

Tallaght
Via Dundrum

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

The ones I saw alternate between

Tallaght
The Square

Tallaght
Tamhlacht

Tallaght
Via Dundrum

Hadn't noticed that myself I'm generally not a big fan alternating displays as they can be confusing.

I would prefer if they alternated between.

Tallaght Square
Cearnóg Tamhlacht

And

Tallaght Square
Via Dundrum

KD345

devnull wrote: »

I had only seen the 175 ones on the brand new stops and the shelters with a full spider map on one route - I hadn't seen the other ones.

You make very valid points about those, I generally like the design but the lack of footnotes and not using destination names, using towards the second last stop and not the terminus and not noting variations are certainly problems which they need to address without doubt. Also for the pole stops with no spider diagrams I agree that they need the information of some of the places called en-route rather than just a basic timetable as you've shown.

I think the general layout of the new stops is a step forward, but they need to add these details to them, which shouldn't mean they need to change the layout much, but at the moment they are lacking key details - I just haven't seen these kind of stops with such layout myself yet, as I said the new 175 stops and one or two of the shelters I have seen and these issues are not so apparent there.

As for DB and Go-Ahead services having different spider maps, totally see where you are coming from with that too, but I dare say that there might be reasons that they are kept separate, since I doubt DB want to see their brand totally eroded at bus stops since I'd say it's a quite big pill for them to swallow already.

I agree, the general design is really nice and the return of the spider map is fantastic. Whatever the politics there needs to be one spider map for people to check. Stop 4713 is a good example, the 77x and 175 both run to UCD from here but the 77x is not included on the map. The 175 and 77X both serve Tallaght Hospital, but you need to check two spider maps to figure that out. They need to tweak the design here to incorporate both operators together, especially when we’ll soon have routes like the 33 and 33a, 84 and 184 etc sharing large sections of their routes.

devnull

KD345 wrote: »

I agree, the general design is really nice and the return of the spider map is fantastic. Whatever the politics there needs to be one spider map for people to check. Stop 4713 is a good example, the 77x and 175 both run to UCD from here but the 77x is not included on the map. The 175 and 77X both serve Tallaght Hospital, but you need to check two spider maps to figure that out. They need to tweak the design here to incorporate both operators together, especially when we’ll soon have routes like the 33 and 33a, 84 and 184 etc sharing large sections of their routes.

Oh I totally agree - if I had my way there would be no segregation at all and everything would be treated as one central system like you would have in London and other cities. it's really what we need.

I think things are moving in the right direction with regards to integration, the last year or two- but there is still a good way to go before we reach the point where we need to be to give a seamless experience to passengers as we will see in other cities in Europe.

I'm hoping that the next Direct Award contracts to Dublin Bus essentially will push them to integrate their PSO network more within TFI rather than under their own banner primarily, but time will tell if that will happen - but certainly it seems a sensible time for the NTA to do it - a well written contract will help them enforce it.

Annasopra

The 45a and 184 and 185 timetables are very confusing

45a because its hard to figure out which buses go through Wolfetone and which dont

184 doesnt mention Newtownmountkennedy as a major stop, mentions health centre as a major stop (health centre where? Bray? Greystones?) And glenview park? Which is kilpedder

185 Bray commons? Enniskerry golf club? Maple Grove? Seriously? You mean Lower Dargle Road? Shop River and Palermo?

normanoffside

devnull wrote: »

Leaflets have now been produced for all the four new services:

Route 45A/B
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-45ab-Timetable.pdf

Route 59
https://www.transportforireland.ie/routeb-59-timetable-081018/

Route 63/63A
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-63a-Timetable-1.pdf

Route 75/75A
https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/TFI-Go-Ahead-Route-75a-Timetable-1.pdf

According to the 63 timetables there, Monkstown Avenue is somewhere between Carrickmines and Kiltiernan.
Poor.

devnull

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

184 doesnt mention Newtownmountkennedy as a major stop, mentions health centre as a major stop (health centre where? Bray? Greystones?) And glenview park? Which is kilpedder

185 Bray commons? Enniskerry golf club? Maple Grove? Seriously? You mean Lower Dargle Road? Shop River and Palermo?

I have to say that I never knew exactly where Shop River meant, but I did know where Enniskerry Golf Club was so it's actually more helpful for me.

Health Centre is a silly name for a stop on the timetable though, that one sticks out as being the most silly as the lot as it's not very descriptive.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

Oh I totally agree - if I had my way there would be no segregation at all and everything would be treated as one central system like you would have in London and other cities. it's really what we need.

I think things are moving in the right direction with regards to integration, the last year or two- but there is still a good way to go before we reach the point where we need to be to give a seamless experience to passengers.

I'm hoping that the next Direct Award contracts to Dublin Bus essentially will push them to integrate their PSO network more within TFI rather than as their own brand, but time will tell if that will happen - but certainly it seems a sensible time for the NTA to do it.

I think some of the problem is with the NTA themselves. Do they have the resources to provide say social media accounts for all operators. However I agree with your point. Let's hope new DB deliveries in 2019 will be in TFI livery.

Even in Manchester where it's a bit of a free for all in terms of bus operators. All stop information and timetables are consistently branded as TFGM regardless of operator.

devnull

normanoffside wrote: »

According to the 63 timetables there, Monkstown Avenue is somewhere between Carrickmines and Kiltiernan.
Poor.

Yep, just noticed that, heading doesn't match the timetable route either, that's a simple proof-read fail which you have to ask, why this wasn't caught.

Phat Cat

soundman45 wrote: »

I think they have made a big mistake in using so many new drivers. They have no experience driving a bus, no experience dealing with customers, ticketing etc, some do not seem to even be fimiliar with the city. I was on a 45a yesterday in fairness the driver was grand he must have done it before but one guy asked him was the route changed as the previous bus driver (45a) told him he didnt serve bray. Now im happy to accept drivers need to bed in but I think having such a high percentage of raw new drivers was a bad move.

The drivers seem very nervous alright. I got the 75 to Dundrum Shopping Centre over the weekend and the driver was taking corners really slowly and stopped to far from the curb at some stops. It's all a learning curve though, plus like you mentioned, it's a tough enough job having to deal with tickets, customers on top of having to navigate unfamiliar routes, so it'll obviously take time.

Edit: My wife said she was driving a few cars back from a 63 earlier tonight that hit a pedestrian island barrier on the right turn onto Oliver Plunkett Road in Monkstown Farm.

Annasopra

devnull wrote: »

I have to say that I never knew exactly where Shop River meant, but I did know where Enniskerry Golf Club was so it's actually more helpful for me.

Health Centre is a silly name for a stop on the timetable though, that one sticks out as being the most silly as the lot as it's not very descriptive.

Seriously? Enniskerry Golf Club? Google maps shows it as a random place down near the village. Is this the powerscourt golf club? The pith and putt that closed about 30 years ago? Locals there have never heard of it!!!

Its the Delgany health centre by the way. Like why couldnt they just say delgany village

Stephen15

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Seriously? Enniskerry Golf Club? Google maps shows it as a random place down near the village. Is this the powerscourt golf club? The pith and putt that closed about 30 years ago? Locals there have never heard of it!!!

Shop River is a makey uppy CIEism.

Annasopra

Stephen15 wrote: »

Shop River is a makey uppy CIEism.

Its a townland name. Nobody seems to know where Enniskerry Golf Club but when you say its at Shop river they know where you mean then.

Who the hell knows where Bray Commons and Health Centre are?

Stephen15

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its a townland name. Nobody seems to know where Enniskerry Golf Club but when you say its at Shop river they know where you mean then.

Who the hell knows where Bray Commons and Health Centre are?

I get what you mean I'm just saying Shop River for most outside the area is completely unheard of. Bray Commons and Health are poor too.

CramCycle

I know where the Health Centre is but no idea of Shop River, guessing the Upper Dargle Road? But no one has ever used that around here to me.

L1011

There was a stop and stage name in Maynooth of O'Briens Supermarket until relatively recently - it actually lasted on the Wayfarers for longer than the timetables.

O'Briens was a mostly midlands chain that sold out to Quinnsworth in 1988. And due to there being a branch of O'Briens sandwiches in both shopping centres in the town Google isn't even going to tell you where it is!

punisher5112

CramCycle wrote: »

I know where the Health Centre is but no idea of Shop River, guessing the Upper Dargle Road? But no one has ever used that around here to me.

Shop river is after enniskerry

CramCycle

punisher5112 wrote: »

Shop river is after enniskerry

Live minutes from it and didn't know, good luck to non locals

BonnieSituation

Sure even the 25a had Lucan Esker Church, Lucan Shopping Centre and Lucan Superquinn for the same stop. Thankfully they're all near enough to each other.