Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

punisher5112

I give up......


I've stated what today has been like, db isn't to blame, nta has done a terrible job.


Why would you leave bust stop empty with no link and rtpi with no info.

Nta supposedly own these but put no info up.

Why not have notices on new stops and new extended display boards....

Db it seems will always be wrong even when they have nothing to do with it

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seriously???

Do you think one company would want to promote they are loosing a service????


I don't get this as GA wouldn't do it.

And do you not think if a shop was closing one of it's stores it might be useful to inform their customers. If Go Aheads website can acknowledge that DB do exist then I don't see why DB should be any different.

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/newsroom-2/press-release-national-transport-authority/

Seriously it's not as if the NTA are trying to wipe DB out of existence here. They've just announced a major expansion of service which will benefit DB and they've just had their direct award contract renewed. While I would say the vast majority of the blame lies with the NTA for the real time issues and not updatingt imetables at stops. How come when the 175 was introduced the new timetables were put up nice and quickly but not in this instance?

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

And do you not think if a shop was closing one of it's stores it might be useful to inform their customers. If Go Aheads website can acknowledge that DB do exist then I don't see why DB should be any different.

https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/newsroom-2/press-release-national-transport-authority/

Seriously it's not as if the NTA are trying to wipe DB out of existence here. They've just announced a major expansion of service which will benefit DB and they've just had their direct award contract renewed. While I would say the vast majority of the blame lies with the NTA for the real time issues and not updatingt imetables at stops. How come when the 175 was introduced the new timetables were put up nice and quickly but not in this instance?

GA looking all 🌹

dfx-

The starting date is the date for everything to be sorted out and not part of a learning curve. That was the 7th October, not tomorrow or next week. And it's up to the NTA to do it. What was the standard of readiness for them to start 7th October in the tender? Anyone know...anyone care?

devnull

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why would you leave bust stop empty with no link and rtpi with no info.

Nta supposedly own these but put no info up.

Why not have notices on new stops and new extended display boards....

Db it seems will always be wrong even when they have nothing to do with it

There is nothing to support the narrative that is being pushed here, that legacy bus stops that are used by Dublin Bus are owned by the National Transport Authority and there is far more to suggest that they are owned by Dublin Bus.

In the most recent Annual Report and Accounts (pg 60), Dublin Bus valued their bus stop and shelter estate at €14.7m and listed them as Tangible fixed assets and I highly doubt that Dublin Bus are publishing annual reports and accounts with incorrect information in them.

I agree that today hasn't gone as well as it should have done and the NTA could have done better and need to do better - but the idea that the NTA is always the bad guy and can do nothing right and that Dublin Bus is perfect and hasn't done anything that could not be improved to serve public transport users better is a false narrative.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

There is nothing to support the narrative that is being pushed here, that legacy bus stops that are used by Dublin Bus are owned by the National Transport Authority and there is far more to suggest that they are owned by Dublin Bus.

If that's the case could DB not sue the NTA for removing their logos from their stops and replacing with brand neutral bus logos.

punisher5112

devnull wrote: »

There is nothing to support the narrative that is being pushed here, that legacy bus stops that are used by Dublin Bus are owned by the National Transport Authority and there is far more to suggest that they are owned by Dublin Bus.

In the most recent Annual Report and Accounts (pg 60), Dublin Bus valued their bus stop and shelter estate at €14.7m and listed them as Tangible fixed assets and I highly doubt that Dublin Bus are publishing annual reports and accounts with incorrect information in them.

I agree that today hasn't gone as well as it should have done and the NTA could have done better and need to do better - but the idea that the NTA is always the bad guy and can do nothing right and that Dublin Bus is perfect and hasn't done anything that could not be improved to serve public transport users better is a false narrative.

Hold on I've never said db were the best thing ever and I am very well up on the working of it.



Yes of course they could improve but all I see is this being a game of who can get cheaper labour to be honest.

In the long run it's going to be an attack mainly on driver wages and don't be mistaken.

Isn't it amazing how the day a new company takes over a increase in frequency happens.

This increase could have happened years ago but no the nta says when.

Fare evasion is huge but nobody cares

Db now has over 1k buses and 4 ticket checkers..... Yes 4 and only 3 check while the other follows in a car.

Travellers shouldn't have to put up with the tools that do take be over the buses and passengers being educated on how to travel should be on the list.

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes of course they could improve but all I see is this being a game of who can get cheaper labour to be honest.

That's quite a pessimistic view. I wouldn't think that GAI drivers are on a whole lot less than DB spare drivers. Rightly or wrongly there have been some IR issues within DB and to a larger extent BE. Perhaps the NTA wanted more control over bus services as they felt CIE companies had too much autonomy which to a certain extent maybe to do with IR but there's plenty of other issues there too.

In the long run it's going to be an attack mainly on driver wages and don't be mistaken.

I wouldn't come to that conclusion

Isn't it amazing how the day a new company takes over a increase in frequency happens.

Even if DB had have won the tender the frequency would have still increased. Many services were cut during the recession under Network Direct and are only being restored now. The NTA didn't have the money to increase services years ago

Fare evasion is huge but nobody cares

Db now has over 1k buses and 4 ticket checkers..... Yes 4 and only 3 check while the other follows in a car.

Travellers shouldn't have to put up with the tools that do take be over the buses and passengers being educated on how to travel should be on the list.

Agreed

goingnowhere

Stephen15 wrote: »

If that's the case could DB not sue the NTA for removing their logos from their stops and replacing with brand neutral bus logos.

No chance as the PSO contract specifically states an obligation to adopt the branding as set by the NTA

antoinolachtnai

The problem is that in order to have change, we have to change something. That is never easy.

Unit costs are a big underlying issue in public transport by bus in Ireland. They simply have to be addressed. There is a lot more to unit costs apart from just wages.

punisher5112

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The problem is that in order to have change, we have to change something. That is never easy.

Unit costs are a big underlying issue in public transport by bus in Ireland. They simply have to be addressed. There is a lot more to unit costs apart from just wages.

Fuel is up there as been a huge cost.

StreetLight

devnull wrote: »

If one operator of a public bus service can't even bear to utter the name of the other company operating on the same network and pretends they don't exist, that says a lot about the chances of having a proper, integrated transport system that this city really does deserve.

Sorry, that's just not true.

Some customer queries on the Dublin Bus Twitter feed asking about some of the transferred routes have been re-directed to the GoAhead Twitter account. One of the redirects was even liked by GoAhead!

There's no professional animosity going on here.

Dravokivich

devnull wrote: »

Because whilst the NTA have clearly not had a great day today, Dublin Bus have not exactly helped the matters either as KD345 has pointed out in their previous post. It would have cost them nothing to put up a page on their website to direct people, but they chose not to which is a shocking way for a public company to act towards the public that they are supposed to be passionate about serving.

The bus stops situation is complex because Dublin Bus owns the stops from what I have been told by people and someone from one of the companies has told me that there may have to be DB and TFI stops next to each other because of this. This is not something I make up in my head, even the FAQs on the Go-Ahead website have been updated to reference that we may have a situation where DB and TFI stops are close together.

We don't know that. The only page on their web site that seems to be changed frequently are the news items.

I've clients who've websites, that require code changes to update content. That involves CAB, UAT, and Developer time. Even if it was just to change the phrasing of a paragraph of content.

StreetLight

The Dublin Bus Twitter feed is now starting to get swamped with queries about why the transferred routes are not showing up on Real Time. Dublin Bus are advising people to consult GoAhead and TFI.

Dublin Bus have also updated their website with a notice to reflect the changes:




Routes Switching to Go-Ahead Ireland
Published on Monday, October 08, 2018
From Sunday 7 October 2018, Routes 45A, 75, 63 and 59 will no longer be operated by Dublin Bus.

Fares remain unchanged
TFI Leap Card and Free Travel Pass remain valid
Rambler as well as Annual and Monthly TaxSaver tickets also remain valid
Daily and weekly bus fare capping applies to Go-Ahead Ireland services
There are some route amendments and frequency improvements to services on these routes. Details are available here

Customers can also get updates on Facebook, follow us on Twitter @dublinbusnews or call our customer service line on (01) 8734222, lines open from 08:30 - 18:00hrs (Monday to Saturday excluding bank holidays).

devnull

Dravokivich wrote: »

We don't know that. The only page on their web site that seems to be changed frequently are the news items.

All they were required to do is to post a news item stating what was happening and honestly if they really are not able to post a simple news item via a content management system and their own website without having to pay an external party a hefty fee, then there needs to be an enquiry about how taxpayer money is being used in the company.

StreetLight

Just in case some people thought that a route being taken away from Dublin Bus would result in an improvement, well.........





From GoAhead's Twitter feed:

Olga Beatty
‏

@Olga_Beatty
25m25 minutes ago
More
@GoAheadIreland hi, what’s happening with the 75 route? Waiting over 40 min with a baby and no info, not acceptable

1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 1 Retweet Like Direct message

Go-Ahead Ireland
‏

@GoAheadIreland
Follow Follow @GoAheadIreland
More
Replying to @Olga_Beatty
Some of our services are running late due to heavy traffic. We would like to apologize for the inconvenience this might have caused.

9:57 AM - 8 Oct 2018

......and.......


Jessica
‏

@jeggessica
19m19 minutes ago
More
@GoAheadIreland is there no 75 going past stop 4333? I’ve been standing there 20 minutes and it never showed I’m going to be late for work now

2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 2 Retweet Like Direct message

Go-Ahead Ireland
‏

@GoAheadIreland
Follow Follow @GoAheadIreland
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Replying to @jeggessica
Route 75 is serving stop 4333, due to heavy traffic, some of our services have been delayed. We apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused.




..........and...........



Laur
‏

@HolyLaurde
42m42 minutes ago
More
@GoAheadIreland Looking for an update on when a 63 going towards dun laoghaoire will arrive at the Luas stop. Have been waiting an hour and no bus has turned up.

1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 1 Retweet Like Direct message

Go-Ahead Ireland
‏

@GoAheadIreland
Follow Follow @GoAheadIreland
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Replying to @HolyLaurde
Hi Laur,

We would like to apologize for the inconvenience caused, due to heavy traffic some of our services have been delayed.
We are currently working on improving the accuracy on our routes.

devnull

StreetLight wrote: »

Sorry, that's just not true.

Some customer queries on the Dublin Bus Twitter feed asking about some of the transferred routes have been re-directed to the GoAhead Twitter account. One of the redirects was even liked by GoAhead!

There's no professional animosity going on here.

You will notice my post was made yesterday, not today and since I do not have a crystal ball of what is going to happen next, I can only go on the facts and the information I have at the time. At that time DB did not post a notice and they were not mentioning anything about it on social media.

Perhaps someone has had a word with them this morning?

devnull

StreetLight wrote: »

Just in case some people thought that a route being taken away from Dublin Bus would result in an improvement, well.........





From GoAhead's Twitter feed:

Olga Beatty
‏

@Olga_Beatty
25m25 minutes ago
More
@GoAheadIreland hi, what’s happening with the 75 route? Waiting over 40 min with a baby and no info, not acceptable

1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply 1 Retweet Like Direct message

Go-Ahead Ireland
‏

@GoAheadIreland
Follow Follow @GoAheadIreland
More
Replying to @Olga_Beatty
Some of our services are running late due to heavy traffic. We would like to apologize for the inconvenience this might have caused.

9:57 AM - 8 Oct 2018

My DB bus didn't run at all this morning because of an operational issue and I've had several issues with that in the past few weeks, if you look over twitter there are many examples of this.

You will also appreciate that traffic effects all operators and not just one and if DB were operating the service then the traffic wouldn't suddenly disappear.

StreetLight

devnull wrote: »

You will also appreciate that traffic effects all operators and not just one and if DB were operating the service then the traffic wouldn't suddenly disappear.

I appreciate it. Many others here don't.

MJohnston

Everyone here is positing ideas about Dublin Bus slowing things down, or the NTA being incompetent, or GA being unprepared, etc.

In reality, all of these issues are related to software, and it is the will of the gods that non-tech companies will continue to remain absolutely clueless about updating technology.

I guarantee it'll be something silly like the freelancer they got to build the real time app no longer does jobs, or they asked the external developer to update the app about 5 days before launch, thinking that would be enough time. I would take a massive bet on the fact that basically none of these apps or services are built in-house. I would further wager that the companies probably don't have any kind of tech expert even just constantly around to consult on these things.

StreetLight

devnull wrote: »

You will notice my post was made yesterday, not today and since I do not have a crystal ball of what is going to happen next, I can only go on the facts and the information I have at the time. At that time DB did not post a notice and they were not mentioning anything about it on social media.

Perhaps someone has had a word with them this morning?

Don't change what I said. I was referring to your assumption that one transport company might not be enthusiastic about mentioning another by name through public posts.

In the case of Dublin Bus and GoAhead, I have demonstrated that this is not true.

devnull

StreetLight wrote: »

I appreciate it. Many others here don't.

There was a crash on the M50 this morning which has caused large back-ups and traffic in the city that has effected all services by all operators and none of the operators can do anything about that.

https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/1049210269203931136
The idea that services operated by DB that are held up in traffic will suddenly not encounter any traffic when they go to Go-Ahead is fantasy land stuff, the only thing that is going to help with traffic is modal shift and the infrastructure element of BusConnects, to blame operators for traffic is ridiculous.

loyatemu

so there's no RTPI for the GoAhead routes - that's very poor, they've had long enough to get organised.

devnull

StreetLight wrote: »

Don't change what I said. I was referring to your assumption that one transport company might not be enthusiastic about mentioning another by name through public posts.

I'm not changing what you said - when I make a post I make a post based on what is happening when I make the post. At the time they did not post the article and they did not mention the other company by name on their website - these are facts at the end of the day whether you like to admit them or not.

It's possible that someone has had a word with them this morning and as such they have posted the article and changed their approach.

BonnieSituation

p_haugh wrote: »

Other good apps are Next Bus Dublin and Next Train Ireland. Much better UI than the official DB app and easier to use. Next Bus Dublin is also being updated for the new GAI routes which is a bonus. I use Moovit as well which is also quite good.

Always used next train Ireland when I working in Dun Laoghaire. Great app.

Downloaded moovit on the basis of what was said above. Used it in Bratislava most of the weekend. It was as gash as Google maps. But the maps it uses are far superior however so it has that going for it. Will start using it in Dublin for a bit and see how we are.
The TFI app does what I need it to do with all my favourites saved so I can't really complain.

StreetLight

I don't and wouldn't blame any transport operator for traffic issues.

But the view of some put the blame specifically on Dublin Bus, howsoever caused.

The Bus Infrastructure Improvement project cannot come quick enough.

BonnieSituation

Just reading I've the last pages there about GAI.

Why wouldn't the RTPI not work with say, the transferred routes? Different transponders?

Never would have thought that that would have been an issue. Then again...

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

Everyone here is positing ideas about Dublin Bus slowing things down, or the NTA being incompetent, or GA being unprepared, etc.

In reality, all of these issues are related to software, and it is the will of the gods that non-tech companies will continue to remain absolutely clueless about updating technology.

I guarantee it'll be something silly like the freelancer they got to build the real time app no longer does jobs, or they asked the external developer to update the app about 5 days before launch, thinking that would be enough time. I would take a massive bet on the fact that basically none of these apps or services are built in-house. I would further wager that the companies probably don't have any kind of tech expert even just constantly around to consult on these things.

Yes, it's something along these lines. I've worked on a systems upgrade before, a year and a half we were testing this thing, finally got to the go live date. All the staff went home on the Friday, we ran the upgrade once all the processing finished, and spent all day Saturday and Sunday testing the hell out of the system so that we were sure it'd be at 100% for everyone to come into work on Monday.

Monday comes around and we're celebrating, everything is going really well. I decide to come in late Tuesday, shattered after the weekend. I walk into chaos. The system was totally down, 400 staff members sitting there twiddling their thumbs. Totally unexpected.

In the end, it wasn't the fault of the upgrade at all, a contractor thought that he could change a seemingly totally unrelated setting on all the machines without running it through test. Turns out, he could not. That was a fun one to figure out.

The NTA, Dublin Bus, and basically most public services don't strike me as IT literate at all. As MJohnston said, this is merely an IT problem that problem should have been caught before hand, but for whatever reason, it wasn't. There's also a good possibility that it couldn't have been caught before going live, depending on their systems.

CatInABox

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Just reading I've the last pages there about GAI.

Why wouldn't the RTPI not work with say, the transferred routes? Different transponders?

Never would have thought that that would have been an issue. Then again...

It could be any number of things. The littlest thing can screw a computer up.

BonnieSituation

CatInABox wrote: »

It could be any number of things. The littlest thing can screw a computer up.

Hmmm