Dublin North Quays - now double bus lane

cython

Definitely seemed heavier than average back to Parkgate Street this AM as I was cycling in, and even the bus lane was jammed up at one point by virtue of ignorant drivers joining the quays from a side street, and just stopping with the rear of their cars in the bus lane with their car half in the driving lane - as they say, nature will always make a better idiot.

Phil.x

Marlay wrote: »

There was a breakdown on Northwall Quay, before Samuel Beckett bridge.

Yes that was on the city bound lane.

Phil.x

monument wrote: »

I used to live on Parkgate Street and that's really not that abnormal.

Yes I agree, but it usually frees up after O Connell street.

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

Yeah it was bumper-to-bumper this morning on Ormond Quay around 8.

One noticible problem on Ormond Quay since the new layout has been the inability of buses that are using Capel Bridge to get into the righthand lane .

A couple of days ago there was a 79 that had to access Capel Street bridge from the middle lane and then turn right, and this morning a coach held up the bus lane for a minute because it couldn't get into the right hand turn lane. cars and taxis were not letting the coach in.

This was something that I expected to be an issue given the new road layout.

There is a need to re-route the bus routes that turn right there (69, 69X, 79 and 79A) to operate along the Quays to use either O'Connell Bridge or Rosie Hackett Bridge.

I suspect that this will be one of the changes that takes place in due course.

StreetLight

This turn has been an issue for years and nobody had ever expressed an interest in sorting it.
It's only now the problem is exacerbated that something might be done, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

AlekSmart

StreetLight wrote: »

This turn has been an issue for years and nobody had ever expressed an interest in sorting it.
It's only now the problem is exacerbated that something might be done, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Perhaps the greater issue,rapidly assuming greater importance here,is the virtual absence of Garda Traffic Corps activity in and around the areas of most recent change.

To embark upon such a large scale change project,without any visible enforcement procedure is one thing,but when added to the already noticeable reluctance of The Gardai to enforce general Road Traffic Regulatons,then it calls the entire plan into question.

Most Traffic Signal sequences on Bachelors Walk/O Connell Bridge,now feature multiple private cars turning right,with a surprising number then lining up to immediately turn right again back onto Aston Quay,all without any involvement of what is,supposedly,the only Law Enforcement agency in the State.

At this point the City Authorities have few options,with either the immediate installation of ANPR systems generating €60 and 1 point penalties for EVERY infringement,or the outsourcing of Road Traffic Act enforcement to agencies such as Go-Safe,NCPS,or some of the many such operators in the U.K.

Doing nothing,always the preferred option of the Irish public Administrator,will eventually lead to the collapse of this latest scheme,leading to more cost and inconvenience as the pieces are picked up and boxed away yet again.

cgcsb

I would expect the experiment of allowing cars proceed to Eden quay will end fairly lively once luas begins running at full pelt.

monument

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps the greater issue,rapidly assuming greater importance here,is the virtual absence of Garda Traffic Corps activity in and around the areas of most recent change.

To embark upon such a large scale change project,without any visible enforcement procedure is one thing,but when added to the already noticeable reluctance of The Gardai to enforce general Road Traffic Regulatons,then it calls the entire plan into question.

Most Traffic Signal sequences on Bachelors Walk/O Connell Bridge,now feature multiple private cars turning right,with a surprising number then lining up to immediately turn right again back onto Aston Quay,all without any involvement of what is,supposedly,the only Law Enforcement agency in the State.

At this point the City Authorities have few options,with either the immediate installation of ANPR systems generating €60 and 1 point penalties for EVERY infringement,or the outsourcing of Road Traffic Act enforcement to agencies such as Go-Safe,NCPS,or some of the many such operators in the U.K.

Doing nothing,always the preferred option of the Irish public Administrator,will eventually lead to the collapse of this latest scheme,leading to more cost and inconvenience as the pieces are picked up and boxed away yet again.

In fairness to the Gardai I heard reports on Twitter and elsewhere of enforcement at different times in the two weeks after the changes.

bk

monument wrote: »

In fairness to the Gardai I heard reports on Twitter and elsewhere of enforcement at different times in the two weeks after the changes.

You are right, there was, but I'd also have to agree with Alek's overall sentiment. The odd Garda check for a week or two, with no fines, which then goes away and people will quickly return to breaking the rules as we all know.

I do like the idea of DCC hiring a private company to patrol the streets and issue fines. Both parking and traffic infringement. It is very common around the world for a city to have it's own low level traffic enforcement and fines from a private company is the only thing Irish people seem to understand.

Failing that then either physical barriers that make it hard to break the rules or automated cameras that issue fines.

buffalo

bk wrote: »

I do like the idea of DCC hiring a private company to patrol the streets and issue fines. Both parking and traffic infringement. It is very common around the world for a city to have it's own low level traffic enforcement and fines from a private company is the only thing Irish people seem to understand.

That feeds into the moaning narrative of "sure it's all just a revenue-generating exercise against the poor motorists". We have a traffic corps, they should be given the resources and sent out with a directive to strictly enforce the law - against drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, the lot.

bk

buffalo wrote: »

That feeds into the moaning narrative of "sure it's all just a revenue-generating exercise against the poor motorists". We have a traffic corps, they should be given the resources and sent out with a directive to strictly enforce the law - against drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, the lot.

Tough, it is the only thing Irish people understand. A Garda stops them and they will try to sweet talk their way out of it and sure the Gardai might let them go because in the end it isn't any skin off their noise and they don't need the paper work. While a private firm taking a cut is incentivised to not let anyone get away with it.

And are we really saying that people who break the rules should just be left get away with it!

Also Gardai are expensive to train and pay. They should be out dealing with major crime, not dealing with traffic. That can be dealt with using cheaper resources.

Most cities in Europe have some sort of dedicated city "police/warden" force that just deal with traffic and parking, separate from the national or federal police who deal with real crimes. We need the same.

buffalo

bk wrote: »

And are we really saying that people who break the rules should just be left get away with it!

Nope, nobody is saying that. Where did you get that from?

The traffic corps should strictly enforce the law - fines and penalty points.

bk

buffalo wrote: »

The traffic corps should strictly enforce the law - fines and penalty points.

It is expensive and inefficient to have Gardai doing that, they should be doing more serious work (even the traffic corps focusing more on joyriders, drink driving, etc.). Traffic enforcement can easily be done by cheaper resources, just like parking is done by traffic wardens.

Hell I'd prefer the Gardai to spend their time patrolling the Luas/Dart/etc. then wasting their time having to fine motorists in the city center.

Muahahaha

bk wrote: »

It is expensive and inefficient to have Gardai doing that, they should be doing more serious work (even the traffic corps focusing more on joyriders, drink driving, etc.). Traffic enforcement can easily be done by cheaper resources, just like parking is done by traffic wardens.

Hell I'd prefer the Gardai to spend their time patrolling the Luas/Dart/etc. then wasting their time having to fine motorists in the city center.

The problem though is the Garda unions, management has already recognised that we could have 1,500 extra Gardai on the streets if the admin work was taken off them and done by civilians as it is in many other police forces. But the Garda unions are completely against this and no govt. has yet taken them to task.

rebel456

Muahahaha wrote: »

The problem though is the Garda unions, management has already recognised that we could have 1,500 extra Gardai on the streets if the admin work was taken off them and done by civilians as it is in many other police forces. But the Garda unions are completely against this and no govt. has yet taken them to task.

Agree with bk that it's a general waste of Traffic Corps time to be seated on the Quays enforcing the new lane layout - a decent few warning sings and an ANPR camera would certainly have folks alert. Folks will complain it's just revenue raising, but they'd say the exact same thing if it's a Garda fining them.

On the issue of the Govt not taking Gardai out of the office... the Gardai have a funny old way of making the public feel sorry for them (highlight lack of funding, etc) when that issue crops up. They play it quite well, works most times too.

eejoynt

This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

to quote the original poster in this thread.

well it hasnt

can thread be locked now?

LXFlyer

eejoynt wrote: »

This will cause mayhem when traffic comes back after summer holidays!

to quote the original poster in this thread.

well it hasnt

can thread be locked now?

It hasn't caused mayhem as such. But the LUAS has not yet started full testing - the effect of that on traffic on the Quays is the big imponderable.

Also the third level colleges have yet to return.

AndrewJRenko

Muahahaha wrote: »

The problem though is the Garda unions, management has already recognised that we could have 1,500 extra Gardai on the streets if the admin work was taken off them and done by civilians as it is in many other police forces. But the Garda unions are completely against this and no govt. has yet taken them to task.

Maybe somebody should tell the current 2,500+ civilians working in the Gardai that don't have any work to do?

If the Garda unions were actually against this, they're doing a pretty poor job of stopping it as we currently have about 1 civilian for every 5 Gardai. Where exactly did the Garda unions oppose this process?

bk

eejoynt wrote: »

can thread be locked now?

Well I'm happy that the OP was wrong. But there is still plenty to discuss. We have to wait and see how it pans out as the dark, cold, wet winter months settle in and the Luas gets up and running.

I think it is obvious now that it hasn't caused chaos to traffic and that the buses are greatly benefiting from it.

But we do have to see if the adjustments and enforcement will be enough not to slow buses to a halt once the Luas properly starts up and if perhaps more adjustments are required.

wait4me

Thankfully the effect on traffic was not as severe as I originally thought. Looks as if there are no longer snakes of buses crossing one another on Batchelors Walk which should be shortening commute time. As bk said let's wait and see what Luas does when it starts but that's not for this thread. It has also made for better cycling conditions.

This thread took an amazing journey from the original question but eventually got back on track. Thanks all for the interesting read.

trellheim

Traffic around my area ( NCR ) near the Park - has increased by a large amount . Funny that.

Muahahaha

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe somebody should tell the current 2,500+ civilians working in the Gardai that don't have any work to do?

If the Garda unions were actually against this, they're doing a pretty poor job of stopping it as we currently have about 1 civilian for every 5 Gardai. Where exactly did the Garda unions oppose this process?

The Garda unions were vehemently opposed to the introduction of the Garda Reserve which goes to show that they dont always get their own way. And I never said there are no civilians working in the Gardai, you are just attempting to put words in my mouth. I said the Garda unions are opposed to having more civilians in the force as said by the CPSU:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/civilians-who-could-free-garda-from-desks-seen-as-an-underclass-34760032.html

"The union said it "fundamentally disagrees" with comments from garda associations "which sought to suggest that there were certain functions our members could not perform because of their importance".

Also from the same article

Civilians are just 14pc of the overall workforce, compared with 31pc in London, 25pc in Scotland, and 54pc in Surrey;

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/civilians-who-could-free-garda-from-desks-seen-as-an-underclass-34760032.html

Which shows how far behind civilianisation of the police force we actually are. And just to illustrate how inefficient this is only a week ago I gave a witness statement on a road traffic accident. To save everyone time I typed it up at home in 15 minutes and brought it to the station. But the Garda wasnt allowed accept it and instead I had to dictate the statement to her while she wrote it down word for word. That took 45 minutes. All of which was work that could have easily been done by a civilian who would have had it done even quicker than the 15 minutes it took me. But instead the Garda unions would prefer their members to be working inefficiently rather than employ civilians. Its a power thing for them, they are not interested in what is for the good of policing and the public.

AndrewJRenko

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Garda unions were vehemently opposed to the introduction of the Garda Reserve which goes to show that they dont always get their own way. And I never said there are no civilians working in the Gardai, you are just attempting to put words in my mouth. I said the Garda unions are opposed to having more civilians in the force as said by the CPSU:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/civilians-who-could-free-garda-from-desks-seen-as-an-underclass-34760032.html


Also from the same article

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/civilians-who-could-free-garda-from-desks-seen-as-an-underclass-34760032.html

Which shows how far behind civilianisation of the police force we actually are. And just to illustrate how inefficient this is only a week ago I gave a witness statement on a road traffic accident. To save everyone time I typed it up at home in 15 minutes and brought it to the station. But the Garda wasnt allowed accept it and instead I had to dictate the statement to her while she wrote it down word for word. That took 45 minutes. All of which was work that could have easily been done by a civilian who would have had it done even quicker than the 15 minutes it took me. But instead the Garda unions would prefer their members to be working inefficiently rather than employ civilians. Its a power thing for them, they are not interested in what is for the good of policing and the public.

Giving a statement is not an administrative process. The person taking the statement needs to know what questions to ask to make sure the statement is complete. It needs to be a person who has take a few prosecutions through the Courts. It is not 'take a letter Miss Jones'.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

AlekSmart

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Giving a statement is not an administrative process. The person taking the statement needs to know what questions to ask to make sure the statement is complete. It needs to be a person who has take a few prosecutions through the Courts. It is not 'take a letter Miss Jones'.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

I'm open to correction,but the process of a Garda writing down a statement has bugger-all to do with their Unions,but FAR more to do with the eagerness of Senior Counsel to collapse entire cases due to a sticky keyboard or the fact that your version of Windows 98 was an illegal clone ?

Muahahaha

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Giving a statement is not an administrative process. The person taking the statement needs to know what questions to ask to make sure the statement is complete. It needs to be a person who has take a few prosecutions through the Courts. It is not 'take a letter Miss Jones'.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

It isnt rocket science either. Plenty of public servants take statements for investigative purposes such as Tusla, HIQA, Medical Council, RTB, state solicitors offices and so on. Youre describing taking a statement as only something a Garda can do- if it is that difficult then why is the entire course in Templemore only 32 weeks?

You could train a public servant to take a statement in under a week, I doubt the Gardai in Templemore even spend that long at it. When I was a victim of crime in Norway a few years back it was a civilian who took my statement, the police were out on the streets doing proper police work, not spending 45 minutes writing down what could be typed by a civilian in a fraction of the time.

AndrewJRenko

Muahahaha wrote: »

It isnt rocket science either. Plenty of public servants take statements for investigative purposes such as Tusla, HIQA, Medical Council, RTB, state solicitors offices and so on. Youre describing taking a statement as only something a Garda can do- if it is that difficult then why is the entire course in Templemore only 32 weeks?

You could train a public servant to take a statement in under a week, I doubt the Gardai in Templemore even spend that long at it. When I was a victim of crime in Norway a few years back it was a civilian who took my statement, the police were out on the streets doing proper police work, not spending 45 minutes writing down what could be typed by a civilian in a fraction of the time.

Yes, that's right, trained, qualified and accredited social workers take statements, trained, qualified and accredited doctors take statements, trained and qualified auditors take statements - and you want a secretary to take yours?

brokenarms

I was just watching this new system this evening at the ha penny bridge.

While most drivers are compliant, those car drivers with a brass neck have now got an express route down the queys.

They are delighted I bet. Plenty of them as well.

AlekSmart

brokenarms wrote: »

I was just watching this new system this evening at the ha penny bridge.

While most drivers are compliant, those car drivers with a brass neck have now got an express route down the queys.

They are delighted I bet.Plenty of them as well.

Totally correct...and that number is increasing regularly.
It is now rare to see a Signal Phase which does not feature a serial offender chancing their arm,a situation which will eventually cause this system to fail...although,perhaps that is the Long-Term hope of DCC itself.

The ending of direct access to Eden Quay remains the preferred option of DCC,and,in fairness,it looks like the only option which will allow for Luas Blue Line to operate to any reasonable level of Safety.

Muahahaha

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yes, that's right, trained, qualified and accredited social workers take statements, trained, qualified and accredited doctors take statements, trained and qualified auditors take statements - and you want a secretary to take yours?

Again you are trying to put words in my mouth, never once did I say a secretary should take statements later to be used in a court of law.

Though I am glad that you have now admitted that it is not just Gardai who have the ability to take such statements and that it can easily be outsourced to public servants.

Anyway this is getting off topic of the bus lanes. The lack of Garda enforcement of them has been mediocre thus far. I am with other posters who say that this job should be taken out of the hands of the Gardai and done by ANPR and civilians.

If you really want a debate on how 2,000 extra Gardai could and should be on our streets then begin a thread on on the 2016 Garda Inspectorate report which said this needs to be done.

Muahahaha

AlekSmart wrote: »

I'm open to correction,but the process of a Garda writing down a statement has bugger-all to do with their Unions,but FAR more to do with the eagerness of Senior Counsel to collapse entire cases due to a sticky keyboard or the fact that your version of Windows 98 was an illegal clone ?

You certainly are open to correction. Where is AGS using illegal versions of Win98? And are you telling us that Gardai never make spelling mistakes in their written statements?

If a SC embarrasses a Garda in court it is usually to do with the Garda cocking up the chain of evidence, not to do with spelling mistakes or using illegal software, as you say is happening right now.