Heavyweight Boxing

WanderlustIre

walshb wrote: »

I'm always here, pal.

Will be at the fight but dont worry I will be here.

WanderlustIre

walshb wrote: »

Exactly...

I seem to be the only one noticing this ridiculous selectivity as regards the three of them. It has to be simply from Fury fanboys, or else people who for some odd reason dislike Wilder and AJ, particularly Wilder to the point where they refuse to admit anything perceived as "negative" against Fury..

I asked a very specific question about who have AJ and Fury fought other than Wlad that were so clearly better than Wilder's opponents, and some responded with "what about Wlad?"

All three resumes are pretty even.

I listed fighters I knew of and compared them. I didnt know of each and every fighter.

Ultimate Seduction

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Will be at the fight but dont worry I will be here.

Vegas in October for McGregor v Khabib then back out a month later for Fury v Wilder? Sure you will.

walshb

WanderlustIre wrote: »

I listed fighters I knew of and compared them. I didnt know of each and every fighter.

You called Ortiz a bum.

I think we'll leave it there. You have no intention of assessing them without bias.

WanderlustIre

walshb wrote: »

You called Ortiz a bum.

I think we'll leave it there. You have no intention of assessing them without bias.

Outside Vidondo, Who has Ortiz beaten?

Name 2?

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

I'm always here, pal.

Omnipresent pal

WanderlustIre

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Vegas in October for McGregor v Khabib then back out a month later for Fury v Wilder? Sure you will.

Yes I am mate. Im booked for both.

walshb

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Outside Vidondo, Who has Ortiz beaten?

Name 2?

Sorry, are you still insisting that Ortiz is a bum?

Jeez, you don't half move goalposts, do you...

You're now onto discussing Otiz's resume...:rolleyes:

walshb

BTW, when AJ meets, and likely beats Povetkin I think we can say that he has beaten the best opposition. Wlad and AP are by far the best of any of the opponents across all resumes not named Ortiz. Ortiz is close to AP, but just a notch below IMO.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

BTW, when AJ meets, and likely beats Povetkin I think we can say that he has beaten the best opposition. Wlad and AP are by far the best of any of the opponents across all resumes not named Ortiz. Ortiz is close to AP, but just a notch below IMO.

If we were in 2012 maybe. 2018 off the roids version of Povetkin is nothing to write home about.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

BTW, when AJ meets, and likely beats Povetkin I think we can say that he has beaten the best opposition. Wlad and AP are by far the best of any of the opponents across all resumes not named Ortiz. Ortiz is close to AP, but just a notch below IMO.

AJ by far has fought the vest of the 3,
Fury really just Wlad
Wilder just Ortiz who himself hasnt really fought anyone (who no one really knows how good he is )
AJ first
Then not much between Fury and Wilder , but Wlad outranks beating Ortiz
Means **** all but on paper Wilders records the worst by a hair
Again means nothing when they fight

Sprinter Sacre

WanderlustIre wrote: »

Outside Vidondo, Who has Ortiz beaten?

Name 2?

Vidondo? LOL. Who tf is that guy.

Ortiz smashed Bryant Jennings who showed his worth frustrating Wlad and making him look as bad as he looked in years. Wlad couldn't power through him yet Ortiz battered him. Other than Wlad, Ortiz was the only guy to stop Tony Thompson who was well past it but still tough as old boots and with some fantastic names on his resume. Ortiz beat Lateef Kayode in a perhaps early stoppage but the signs were there.

Ortiz's resume isn't incredible but you have to give him some credit. Matias Vidondo LOL okay.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

If we were in 2012 maybe. 2018 off the roids version of Povetkin is nothing to write home about.

But he's still a consideration for the best HW on earth. He's in the top four names....

Fury's absence and inactivity means he only gets in via wildcard for me.

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

AJ by far has fought the vest of the 3,
Fury really just Wlad
Wilder just Ortiz who himself hasnt really fought anyone (who no one really knows how good he is )
AJ first
Then not much between Fury and Wilder , but Wlad outranks beating Ortiz
Means **** all but on paper Wilders records the worst by a hair
Again means nothing when they fight

Wlad is better than Ortiz. Something I have already said.

Anyway, the main point that is that ALL three have nothing special on their resumes outside of Wlad and Ortiz......

I agree with all that post, just would debate it.....no right or wrong.

Only right or wrong is posters slating Wilder's opposition and refusing to admits that the other two's opposition is in no way clearly superior.

squinn2912

I agree with everything you say there! Relax you’re not the only one noticing this!
I think a few too many watch the windmill slurs and read into that. Take the Washington fight; he was halfway down to canvas town when the wild flails came. Utterly insignificant.
Ortiz is a really slick operator and gives any hw his fill of it. With that said, Wilder used his jab pretty well during that fight and wasn’t the defensive mess the haters hoped for!

Ultimate Seduction

Think the same myself, he only throws the wild ones from the hips when he knows he's opponent is done. Still think fury wins by landslide in terribly boring fight.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

Morrison J wrote: »

If we were in 2012 maybe. 2018 off the roids version of Povetkin is nothing to write home about.

But he's still a consideration for the best HW on earth. He's in the top four names....

Fury's absence and inactivity means he only gets in via wildcard for me.

For a guy who's putting a lot of stock in peoples resume's your rating of Povetkin is odd. Who's his best win? Takam four years ago on the PED's? No way is Povetkin in consideration for the best HW on earth. The top 3 are Joshua, Wilder and Fury in whatever order you like, Ortiz is on his own in 4th and then there's a significant drop after that.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

For a guy who's putting a lot of stock in peoples resume's your rating of Povetkin is odd. Who's his best win? Takam four years ago on the PED's? No way is Povetkin in consideration for the best HW on earth. The top 3 are Joshua, Wilder and Fury in whatever order you like, Ortiz is on his own in 4th and then there's a significant drop after that.

I didn’t rate/assess APs resume. I simply said that he is considered a top HW..and he is.

Ring disagree with you. I think AP is ranked pretty much in the top 3/4 by all...

I haven’t checked Fury, but where is he rated by the organizations?

I think, considering all resumes, AP deserves to be listed amongst the top 4...

Just checked Ring. Fury is at 10..

Povetkin at 3, behind Wilder at 2 and AJ at 1..

Even disregarding rankings, I’d back AP to beat every HW other than Wilder and AJ..

Fury and AP a toss up..

Sprinter Sacre

Good God David Price caused Povetkin a bit of bother, Fury beats the brakes off him, even Saturday nights version. Parker and Ortiz beat him too. I even think Dillian Whyte has a very good chance of beating him. The version post drugs pop is a very average fighter.

walshb

Price is a huge man at 6 feet 8. AP is 6 feet 2. Of course he was going to cause some issues, at least awkward size issues. AP won every rd (maybe lost 1) and knocked him clean out. Price was not winning that fight, and never was going to.

Does Parker and Whyte have a much easier time with Price?

AP beats the sh1t out of Dillian Whyte. Parker would pose more issues because he is slick and neat and tidy.

AJ I think gets Price out of there within 2/3, but AJ is 3-4 inches taller than AP, and also a bigger man, which means Price's size won't be as difficult for AJ as it may have been for AP.

Basic stuff really.

Sweet.Science

I always thought Fury would beat AJ but that Wilder would beat Fury and that Wilder and AJ was whoever landed 1st

Will be interesting to see it play out

walshb

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I always thought Fury would beat AJ but that Wilder would beat Fury and that Wilder and AJ was whoever landed 1st

Will be interesting to see it play out

A few years ago this would look acceptable....

I would still say both Wilder and AJ beat Fury, but I think Fury's better chance would be vs. AJ.

Now, and upcoming I think Fury has very little chance against either.

Sweet.Science

walshb wrote: »

A few years ago this would look acceptable....

I would still say both Wilder and AJ beat Fury, but I think Fury's better chance would be vs. AJ.

Now, and upcoming I think Fury has very little chance against either.

True . That why i find it strange Fury is taking the fight so soon. He is obviously going to get a massive payday from MTK and that is probably his main reason

walshb

Sweet.Science wrote: »

True . That why i find it strange Fury is taking the fight so soon. He is obviously going to get a massive payday from MTK and that is probably his main reason

Maybe he realizes deep down that he is not going to get much better. It is what it is, and he may as well cash in now.

Maybe he thinks he is in very decent shape to beat Wilder. It does not look it to me.

He waits another 6 - 12 months? Who know what the landscape is for him and the others...

Anyway, I am delighted he has decided to strike in the next 6 months. I just hope the fight actually goes ahead.

Then maybe we can get either Wilder-AJ or AJ-Fury circa April/May of next year.

mada82

Surely there’s a solid argument for povetkin to be 4th best based on resume?
Names like Byrd and chambers early on followed by decent contenders over the last few years too.
Blowing Perez out earlier was impressive too.

I don’t think Whyte or Parker or any of the other contenders can match that.

I think the above mentioned fighters going in against povetkin would be seen as 50/50 fights due to his age now.

walshb

mada82 wrote: »

Surely there’s a solid argument for povetkin to be 4th best based on resume?
Names like Byrd and chambers early on followed by decent contenders over the last few years too.
Blowing Perez out earlier was impressive too.

I don’t think Whyte or Parker or any of the other contenders can match that.

I think the above mentioned fighters going in against povetkin would be seen as 50/50 fights due to his age now.

I'd agree,

Plus, I think AP beats both Whyte and Parker.....both Wyhte and Parker are just nothing elite or A class....

yourdeadwright

I think this version of AP is awful in my opinion
I think the likes of Parker and Whyte beat him right now ,
I also think he gets murdered by AJ ,
Great match making by Hearn as AP will look to go out on his swords and AJ will get a KO, and he'll like a monster again to the non boxing public after 2 poor fights ,

yourdeadwright

Sweet.Science wrote: »

True . That why i find it strange Fury is taking the fight so soon. He is obviously going to get a massive payday from MTK and that is probably his main reason

I dont think Fury ever been in boxing for the money ,
He really really belives he cant be beat , i think hes took this fight as he wants to steal AJ and more so Hearns thunder ,
Ireckon he really fancies beating Wilder and seen his one chance to get the fight before AJ and Hearn ,
Remember Fury keeps saying he cant fight AJ as the deal with Hearn cant be done , but if he beats Wilder all of a sudden he has the one thing AJ claims he wants the last belt ,
So itll almost force Hearn and AJ to some how work out the fight with Fury ,

Id 100% think Fury thinks he beats these two , i think hes speaking his mind when he slates there skills , im not saying he beats both but i do think he 100% belives he will

selectamatic

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think this version of AP is awful in my opinion
I think the likes of Parker and Whyte beat him right now ,
I also think he gets murdered by AJ ,
Great match making by Hearn as AP will look to go out on his swords and AJ will get a KO, and he'll like a monster again to the non boxing public after 2 poor fights ,

AJ winning every round against 2 credible opponents who came to survive = poor fights

Fury winning every round against 2 nobodies who both appeared to have no fight plan and he's the HW incarnation of Floyd Mayweather.

Go figure.

Littlehorny

selectamatic wrote: »

AJ winning every round against 2 credible opponents who came to survive = poor fights

Fury winning every round against 2 nobodies who both appeared to have no fight plan and he's the HW incarnation of Floyd Mayweather.

Go figure.

I think your right here, Fury is a riddle to me. I have never seen anything his has done in the ring as special, I sometimes think am I missing something with him?

His fans do go on as if he is a master boxer, anyway maybe he will go out and beat the current big two and I will have to give him some kudos.

But at the moment I think he is mostly hype and even fans of his have to admit he has looked s***e on his return.