Heavyweight Boxing

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

Well you are a big proponent of the judges scoring

What is that meant to mean?

What has it got to do with my disagreeing on the view that Fury schooled Wlad?

Cyrus

So you don’t think fury’s win over klitschko was a clear win ?

Not much point debating with you then

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

So you don’t think fury’s win over klitschko was a clear win ?

Not much point debating with you then

All you need to know is that I don’t agree with your view that Fury schooled Wlad...

He won a close ugly disjointed shambles of a boxing match...

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

All you need to know is that I don’t agree with your view that Fury schooled Wlad...

He won a close ugly disjointed shambles of a boxing match...

He dethroned an unbelievably dominant world champion in his back yard and made him look ordinary , if you are disregarding that then obviously you can’t see his talent

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

He dethroned an unbelievably dominant world champion in his back yard and made him look ordinary , if you are disregarding that then obviously you can’t see his talent

Made him look ordinary? Yes, he did. And Wlad made himself look ordinary.

Now, Fury, was he not looking ordinary too? Wlad making Fury look ordinary, and Fury making himself look ordinary..

Exact same for both. Both looked very ordinary, because the fight was so poor..

You don’t get it, because you are way overrating Fury’s performance in that fight..

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

Made him look ordinary? Yes, he did. And Wlad made himself look ordinary.

Now, Fury, was he not looking ordinary too? Wlad making Fury look ordinary, and Fury making himself look ordinary..

Exact same for both. Both looked very ordinary, because the fight was so poor..

You don’t get it, because you are way overrating Fury’s performance in that fight..

Klitschko was outthought out boxed and outfought and that’s why he looked ordinary

You don’t get it because you are underrating fury’s performance

walshb

Grand...

We’ll agree to disageee. I can’t change your mind and you can’t change mine...

Anyway, it’s all in the past.

Few future predictions for Fury-Wilder..

Wilder wins cleanly via KO early rds/mid rds

Wilder wins a deserved decision on the cards due to Fury having little to offer on offense, resulting in him in there mainly to spoil and survive..

Fury winning? I’ll have to get back to you on that, as for now only a DQ is something I’d consider..

Oh, and one more: all the Fury nuthuggers making excuse after excuse for his loss..

squinn2912

Donald Trump wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

As someone who hails from the North I take exception to that. Plenty of deep south teams employ very defensive tactics also - it's what Galway based their resurgence on. Look at the Meath teams in the glory years. In 2000 Armagh had the best footballing team in the country and they went to Croker and Kerry pipped them, with plenty of rough play. Jim made a blueprint on how to tackle the Dubs as well and most teams have copied something like that since. Teams like Cork, Clare, Carlow and so on don't play a lovely brand of football and neither do Mayo or Kildare. Roscommon have nice players and look what happened to them in the super 8s.
On this fight I think Fury is going to give Wilder all he wants. Feb would suit him better than November but he is improving fast. If he wants it enough I think he'll win but if he's just there to be there then it's a Wilder KO for me. So my thinking is that Fury holds the keys and what he does with it depends on him, not so much Wilder.

Ah, I wasn't trying to insult anyone. At the risk of dragging it off topic, I take it you're a big fan of Pat Spillane? A great footballer was Pat.

(I won't mention the football again.)


I agree with your point though that the Fury that turns up on the night will depend on himself rather than what is in front of him. He's a looper but I hope the best version of himself turns up on the night. I'd like to see him win it. I think that on top form, he would win it rather than Wilder lose it. Will he hit top form or even anywhere near it? - I have no idea. Odds are probably against it. But I hope he does.

Haha nothing against pat I find him comical but yes a fabulous player. I’m not insulted just thought I’d have to weigh in!

You’ve rounded off my point perfectly. Either way it’s an intriguing contest

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Grand...

We’ll agree to disageee. I can’t change your mind and you can’t change mine...

Anyway, it’s all in the past.

Few future predictions for Fury-Wilder..

Wilder wins cleanly via KO early rds/mid rds

Wilder wins a deserved decision on the cards due to Fury having little to offer on offense, resulting in him in there mainly to spoil and survive..

Fury winning? I’ll have to get back to you on that, as for now only a DQ is something I’d consider..

Do you actually watch Wilder fight?

I mean the FULL fight, not just the KO at the end?

If so, can you show how you think Wilder will be offering any offense. He mostly moves away for 4,5 or 6 rounds doing very, very little. And truthfully, it's because he's so obviously scared of getting hit. That fear is why his composure is so awful. The guy is petrified most of the time he's in the ring.

Wilder reminds me of the kid in school who's a foot taller and 3 stone heavier than anybody else, but he has no interest in fighting. However, his small mouthy friends keep pushing him into situations he doesn't want to be in, but because he is so big he usually doesn't lose - until he meets someone who can really fight!

Well, I think Wilder's handlers saw Wilder the same way and fed him incredibly poor opponents for a long time, purely to build up his confidence and hopefully his skills. It didn't fully work, but he has shown serious power and this is why opponents are wary of setting a harder pace. Szpilka definitely did, despite being relatively ordinary and in most people's opinions was at the very least doing well in the fight, until the end. Wilder doesn't offer any decent co-ordinated and consistent offense. To use your phrase, he has no fluidity. He's just waiting for a safe or desperate moment to swing for the fences.

If Fury is in decent shape, which I think he will be, he'll win clearly on points. However, as the judges in the Szpilka and Ortiz fight showed, Wilder the American fighting in America is going to get a lot of favours from American officials.

walshb

my predictions stand..

Wilder wins by KO is the likely result.

Next is Wilder on points...

You can call me out on my error after the fight, or maybe not!

walshb

Two things I see that could be very influential:

1. Fury realizing/knowing that Wilder has the power to KO him clean with one shot. This resulting in Fury being overly cautious and defensive, which really affects his offensive output and substance.

2. Wilder thinking/believing that Fury has nothing on offense to hurt him with, resulting in Wilder being more aggressive and more offensive..

There's your two results. Wilder by KO, followed by Wilder on a deserved points decision.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Two things I see that could be very influential:

1. Fury realizing/knowing that Wilder has the power to KO him clean with one shot. This resulting in Fury being overly cautious and defensive, which really affects his offensive output and substance.

2. Wilder thinking/believing that Fury has nothing on offense to hurt him with, resulting in Wilder being more aggressive and more offensive..

There's your two results. Wilder by KO, followed by Wilder on a deserved points decision.

Wilder by Ko or Fury by Scorecards its that simply only two ways the fight will be won or lost ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wilder by Ko or Fury by Scorecards its that simply only two ways the fight will be won or lost ,

You saying Wilder cannot win via points?

My scenario not possible?

Or even a committed and “less than cautious” Fury losing on points?

walshb

And I see some have their Fury excuses ready already...

“If Fury is in decent shape.”

Because, god forbid he loses to Wilder it can be only due to him not being in shape..

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

If Fury is in decent shape, which I think he will be, he'll win clearly on points. However, as the judges in the Szpilka and Ortiz fight showed, Wilder the American fighting in America is going to get a lot of favours from American officials.

Win on points providing he doesn’t get knocked out?

Do you think both Ortiz and Szpilka were not only ahead, but clearly ahead on the cards?

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Win on points providing he doesn’t get knocked out?

Do you think both Ortiz and Szpilka were not only ahead, but clearly ahead on the cards?

Wilder has a puncher's chance. As you seem to have completely missed, he's scared sh*tless of getting hit - by anybody!! He even looked nervous against that tool Charlie Z.... whatever his name is. Leopards don't change their spots. He will not suddenly become this consistent, aggressive fighter he never has been because you don't rate Fury's punching power.

Ortiz was absolutely ahead. That judging was just wrong. I can't remember how I scored Szpilka, but he was definitely doing well and the judges didn't reflect that.

And on that topic - serious question - Walshb, have you ever seen a boxing result where you though "bad decision"? Even though we all know you're a contrarian, you consistently defend bad judging, so I'm wondering. And I want you to name the fight(s).

Donald Trump

walshb wrote: »

And I see some have their Fury excuses ready already...

“If Fury is in decent shape.”

Because, god forbid he loses to Wilder it can be only due to him not being in shape..

I'd say it has more to do with whatever is going on in his own head.


It's not a "Fury excuse already". I'd like to see him win. I don't think he's the best thing ever. He's a bit of a headcase. But I think he will beat Wilder if he is on top form on the night.



I'm sure you know yourself from experience. There are periods where things just aren't coming together for you and then there are periods when timing and movement is bang on. And it makes a huge difference. The really good fellas can switch it on all the time. I don't trust that Fury can do that. But I think that if he can get his preparation and timing and head right, he would beat Wilder.



It's what he does on the night that counts. If he gets beaten, there's no such thing as saying "but if X,Y,Z". If he doesn't do it on the night, it doesn't count.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Ortiz was absolutely ahead. That judging was just wrong. I can't remember how I scored Szpilka, but he was definitely doing well and the judges didn't reflect that.

And on that topic - serious question - Walshb, have you ever seen a boxing result where you though "bad decision"? Even though we all know you're a contrarian, you consistently defend bad judging, so I'm wondering. And I want you to name the fight(s).

Pea Whitaker/Chavez and Holyfield/Lewis 1 were two bad calls.

Nothing like Ortiz and Wilder, which most would agree was a close fought fight that could fairly see differing views on the scores..

So not sure what point you looking for. You are claiming that Ortiz was “absolutely” ahead. I don’t agree with that. Not all decisions that “you” disagree with are bad calls, nor do they make people who disagree, contrarian.

mada82

Have Tyson or Peter ever been asked in an interview about their split?

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

You saying Wilder cannot win via points?

My scenario not possible?

Or even a committed and “less than cautious” Fury losing on points?

Yes im saying Wilder does not win on points ,
Reason being he is either to quick and to powerful for Fury and Ko's him or Tyson is to dame skillful and wins on the cards ,

Look at it logically if Wilder is able to out box Fury he will land the right hand and its night night , If he cant out box him Fury is to smart to get beat on the cards from Wilder ,

So saying Wilder wont win on points isnt really knocking him , i just think if he out boxes Fury then surely he lands the big right hand for a KO,

Sweet.Science

Has the fight been officially announced ?

Still a bit of a let down - would of preferred AJ Wilder

Cyrus

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Has the fight been officially announced ?

Still a bit of a let down - would of preferred AJ Wilder

im sure fury will relieve AJ of his belts once he beats Wilder.

walshb

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Has the fight been officially announced ?

Still a bit of a let down - would of preferred AJ Wilder

Not announced, and maybe that is because it’s not near the done deal that Warren and Fury would have you think..

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Has the fight been officially announced ?

Still a bit of a let down - would of preferred AJ Wilder

Not announced, and maybe that is because it’s not near the done deal that Warren and Fury would have you think..

Cold be but Wilder and Finkle have said its done to so hardly Warren and Fury's fault,
I'd imagine its trouble securing a venue

squinn2912

I think the fight is made at this point. If they go back on things now it reflects very poorly but stranger things have happened. I'd love the date and venue to be announced but November, for me, seems far too soon for Fury. If this fight could be made for January or early February then I give Fury a great chance. For Wilder, though, that would be a long time of inactivity.
I see Breazele has been talking up  a fight with Whyte. I think that's a great match up for Whyte and if he could get onto the card then that would be brilliant. I watched the Parker fight again in full yesterday and I don't know how Parker didn't get him at the end. For me, he tired too easily and looked half fit throughout. Both of them in fact.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

I think the fight is made at this point. If they go back on things now it reflects very poorly but stranger things have happened. I'd love the date and venue to be announced but November, for me, seems far too soon for Fury. If this fight could be made for January or early February then I give Fury a great chance. For Wilder, though, that would be a long time of inactivity.
I see Breazele has been talking up  a fight with Whyte. I think that's a great match up for Whyte and if he could get onto the card then that would be brilliant. I watched the Parker fight again in full yesterday and I don't know how Parker didn't get him at the end. For me, he tired too easily and looked half fit throughout. Both of them in fact.

Do you think the head butt made any difference , Parker claims it knocked the stuffing out of him for a few rounds,
I seen a video from Fury yesterday saying he is back training September 1st for a 9/10 week camp , So that would be middle of November ,

squinn2912

That's a good point and it definitely did make a difference. He went down awkwardly from that. I think the same round White bent him over the ropes as well and I think that winded him or hurt his back. But that's heavyweight boxing - you need to be able to deal with that rough stuff. Parker fought very well in the first round but he seemed only half interested after that. A guy with designs on big prizes can't be doing that.
Right. Well that might be our date. To me he'd be better off with a 16 week camp. I know he's coming off the back of a proper camp that at least made him look fit for this last fight, but he's still got a way to go to take on the top dogs.

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

That's a good point and it definitely did make a difference. He went down awkwardly from that. I think the same round White bent him over the ropes as well and I think that winded him or hurt his back. But that's heavyweight boxing - you need to be able to deal with that rough stuff. Parker fought very well in the first round but he seemed only half interested after that. A guy with designs on big prizes can't be doing that.
Right. Well that might be our date. To me he'd be better off with a 16 week camp. I know he's coming off the back of a proper camp that at least made him look fit for this last fight, but he's still got a way to go to take on the top dogs.

Ye Parker seems to happy to take part to me, and doesn't seem to have bad intentions needed to be a real contender,
Ye I agree its to soon for Fury but you have to give it to him he has some self confidence,

walshb

Still no date set.....

Whyte thinks Fury will pull out with an injury...

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Still no date set.....

Whyte thinks Fury will pull out with an injury...

Personally I think they will both use and excuse that Wilder is forced to fight a mandatory first, It'll give Wilder another gimme fight and it'll give Fury the chance to get another fight under his belt ,
If Fury say's he's injured he won't get the extra fight he needs in first, unless they cancel the fight altogether,
Possible both could happen , Fury claims to have slight injured won't wont make November , Wilder has to take mandatory in November and Fury fights someone else in December,
As a big Fury fan its clear to everyone he needs another fight first