Would you be ok with white Irish becoming a minority?

Raycyst

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

speak for yourself keymosabe. Luckily humans have evolved sufficiently to develop other conflict resolution mechanisms besides violence. we are not all neanderthals.

Well, the best you can say is that SOME humans may be super evolved but what about the non evolved neanderthals as you call them?

The existence of the neanderthals is a major problem for the super evolved uberhumans. How will you cope?


It is correct to say that, in general, evolution has a tendency to produce animals that use the three F's to guide their behaviour, those being; fighting, fleeing and copulation.

Fighting is a major part of humanity. We use social institutions, the legal system, and cultural values to try and control society and to a fairly large degree it works. But it won't work in the same way in a multicultural world.

ohnonotgmail

Raycyst wrote: »

Well, the best you can say is that SOME humans may be super evolved but what about the non evolved neanderthals as you call them?

The existence of the neanderthals is a major problem for the super evolved uberhumans. How will you cope?


It is correct to say that, in general, evolution has a tendency to produce animals that use the three F's to guide their behaviour, those being; fighting, fleeing and copulation.

Fighting is a major part of humanity. We use social institutions, the legal system, and cultural values to try and control society and to a fairly large degree it works. But it won't work in the same way in a multicultural world.

why not?

chrissb8

Great thing about migration in Europe was that everyone wanted to come to West Europe but no one wanted to go to Eastern Europe. It was a stupid move to be honest.

People should be screened and scrutinised about what they will do when moving a country. Hence problems with leeches on welfare etc. that is in no way shooting down the good people who go anywhere to make a genuinely better life. It peeves me off to no end when someone comes from another country and stays within their clique of friends/family of people from their country. It's rude, plain as. In my mind you're saying to me I don't care about your culture or the people here for that matter. Just go away if you're going to be like that. I worked with polish guy who was in Ireland 3 years at that stage working among Irish people and he made no effort to learn any English or even converse. You just ask yourself what's the point? It's like a form of willful ignorance and closed mindedness while the spirit of movement of people in Europe is to foster better understandment and ties between us.

In Ireland at least I think it will never happen where we'll be a minority pop. I do worry about the loss of culture as well and identity that comes with Ireland. It's still very strongly there though. All the people saying Dublin has "changed" yeah for the better! All European cities are very diverse and why should Ireland be any different. But I can still walk into a pub on a Sunday and find a load of people from the country getting drunk watching the GAA. The traditions we have are still very strongly ingrained in us such as aforementioned GAA.

(Come back to this post maybe in 20 years haha)

Raycyst

We use social institutions, the legal system, and cultural values to try and control society and to a fairly large degree it works. But it won't work in the same way in a multicultural world.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why not?

Because our society depends on cultural values. People of other cultures don't share our cultural values. Therefore, they may express themselves in ways which we find strange, abhorent or illegal. It will work in reverse too, in at least some cases.
That's the beginnings of the breakdown of society.

You can say it doesn't matter but councils refuse planning for visual amenity reasons. If that excuse is good enough for role models like the county councils then surely it's good enough for me.


As an aside,there's a paradox involved with the super humans who are super evolved. They refuse to fight but by so doing they allow themselves to be murdered. By being murdered they lose. So their super levels of evolution actually do for them in the end. That's the paradox.

ohnonotgmail

Raycyst wrote: »

We use social institutions, the legal system, and cultural values to try and control society and to a fairly large degree it works. But it won't work in the same way in a multicultural world.



Because our society depends on cultural values. People of other cultures don't share our cultural values. Therefore, they may express themselves in ways which we find strange, abhorent or illegal. It will work in reverse too, in at least some cases.
That's the beginnings of the breakdown of society.

You can say it doesn't matter but councils refuse planning for visual amenity reasons. If that excuse is good enough for role models like the county councils then surely it's good enough for me.


As an aside,there's a paradox involved with the super humans who are super evolved. They refuse to fight but by so doing they allow themselves to be murdered. By being murdered they lose. So their super levels of evolution actually do for them in the end. That's the paradox.

you sure do talk a lot of shoite.

B_Wayne

Raycyst wrote: »

We use social institutions, the legal system, and cultural values to try and control society and to a fairly large degree it works. But it won't work in the same way in a multicultural world.



Because our society depends on cultural values. People of other cultures don't share our cultural values. Therefore, they may express themselves in ways which we find strange, abhorent or illegal. It will work in reverse too, in at least some cases.
That's the beginnings of the breakdown of society.

You can say it doesn't matter but councils refuse planning for visual amenity reasons. If that excuse is good enough for role models like the county councils then surely it's good enough for me.


As an aside,there's a paradox involved with the super humans who are super evolved. They refuse to fight but by so doing they allow themselves to be murdered. By being murdered they lose. So their super levels of evolution actually do for them in the end. That's the paradox.

Social Darwinism is what you're describing, it is discredited and was the refuge of bigots. It continues to be used by imbeciles unfortunately as illustrated by your posts.

Yourself isit

Of course human beings are carriers of culture. The question is whether migrants assimilate or not. Taking the term at its most literal multiculturalism doesn't want migrants to assimilate

Hasschu

Insularity was a word associated with the British but it applies also to the Irish. There are people in Ireland who are seeing foreigners for the first time in their lives. I have been up the Niger and Congo rivers where little children ran screaming to their mothers when I came into sight. Something similar is going on in Ireland with some adults. Over time with more exposure they will not feel so threatened. Small towns not within commuting distance of sizeable cities are in decline in the developed world. Saskatchewan and Manitoba in Canada have been losing small towns since the 1950s'. This was due to farms increasing in size from 160 acres to thousands of acres resulting in a huge drop in the rural population. Cities grew as a result of services and manufacturing and the influx of workers. I have seen groups campaigning for the entry of French speaking refugees from republic of Congo to small towns on the basis it would stop the decline in population. You will see more of this in Ireland and it will be promoted by community leaders and businesses to avoid property depreciation and loss of businesses.
The FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) factor is what the racists spread everywhere. Ireland is not exceptional in its anxiety about change but change we will, because TINA. Of course the birth rate could be increased but then the Gov't would have to pay maternity and childcare costs until the children enter full time primary school. Can you see TDs and their funders opting for the tax increase required.

Yourself isit

Hasschu wrote: »

Insularity was a word associated with the British but it applies also to the Irish. There are people in Ireland who are seeing foreigners for the first time in their lives. I have been up the Niger and Congo rivers where little children ran screaming to their mothers when I came into sight. Something similar is going on in Ireland with some adults. Over time with more exposure they will not feel so threatened. Small towns not within commuting distance of sizeable cities are in decline in the developed world. Saskatchewan and Manitoba in Canada have been losing small towns since the 1950s'. This was due to farms increasing in size from 160 acres to thousands of acres resulting in a huge drop in the rural population. Cities grew as a result of services and manufacturing and the influx of workers. I have seen groups campaigning for the entry of French speaking refugees from republic of Congo to small towns on the basis it would stop the decline in population. You will see more of this in Ireland and it will be promoted by community leaders and businesses to avoid property depreciation and loss of businesses.
The FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) factor is what the racists spread everywhere. Ireland is not exceptional in its anxiety about change but change we will, because TINA. Of course the birth rate could be increased but then the Gov't would have to pay maternity and childcare costs until the children enter full time primary school. Can you see TDs and their funders opting for the tax increase required.

Insularity is from the word derived from islands. And ireland had had tourism for decades and immigration for a decade. Nobody had not seen a foreigner.

The idea here is that people don't like immigration but then get used to is not empirically true. Not in Europe anyway. There's been a increase in anti immigration politics over time.

There's always an alternative.

Arcade_Tryer

Yourself isit wrote: »

Insularity is from the word derived from islands. And ireland had had tourism for decades and immigration for a decade. Nobody had not seen a foreigner.

The idea here is that people don't like immigration but then get used to is not empirically true. Not in Europe anyway. There's been a increase in anti immigration politics over time.

There's always an alternative.

A specific type of foreigner though. Similar to the right kind of immigrant i.e. skilled and preferably white.

Yourself isit

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

A specific type of foreigner though. Similar to the right kind of immigrant i.e. skilled and preferably white.

Most of the recent immigration is from Europe.

As for skilled - that's exactly what immigration policy should favour.

Yourself isit

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

The Irish language is only one part of Irish culture, and not a part of a person's DNA, however much you wish it were the case. The Irish language is "your" national and cultural heritage because you choose it to be. There are thousands upon thousands of Irish people for whom it is not, and for whom it means absolutely nothing. These people have no love for, or affiliation with, the Irish language, and would be grateful at some stage if even aside from forcing the Irish language on them, you at least had the intellect and courtesy to acknowledge that they do not value or worship the language in the way you do, and have entirely different cultures and heritage with which they are happy with.

Th is is of course because of colonisation. There's not a very large percentage of French people who prefer not to speak French in France.

LincolnsBeard

You people are nuts.

There is literally nothing wrong with the Irish not wanting to experience mass demographic shifts through the importation of a transient population.

Beanntraigheach

Omackeral wrote: »

I couldn't give a rats what colour someone is. There's kids on my road that are of African decent but they're as Irish as any of the other little feckers on the road. They go to the ice cream van, they play with fidget spinners and last week I saw two of them going to hurling training, the horror of it.

Have you considered that they mightn't necessarily agree with you on that?
A very large proportion, likely a sizeable majority, of the immigrant population wouldn't.

Many in the West today have decided that ethnic and cultural identity (particularly their own) are basically meaningless (indeed the very existence of ethnic and cultural difference is apparently seen as a problem to be overcome), but the huge bulk of Humanity does not and will not feel the same.
They won't toss aside their ethnic, cultural, religious, and linguistic identities to assimilate to us, and it would be extraordinarily naive and downright arrogant to assume that they would.


It's said repeatedly that we're all just Human Beings - essentially the same - and yes, we are all Human Beings.
But we're so much more than that too!
We are not simply blank interchangeable units like the “Borg” or drone ants.
We are deeply complex communal creatures, with our own distinct cultural, ethnic, ancestral, religious, moral, etc backgrounds. Shaped by the histories and experiences of our ancestral communities.
And that’s wonderful.

I don't want to see the ethnic and cultural diversity of humanity fade away, and I’d be heartbroken to see the Irish, or any group for that matter, become a minority in their own homeland.

Vive la différence!

ScumLord

chrissb8 wrote: »

Great thing about migration in Europe was that everyone wanted to come to West Europe but no one wanted to go to Eastern Europe. It was a stupid move to be honest.

You have to remember we begged those people to come here, we wanted them here to fill holes in the labour market and made it as easy as possible for them to get here because of that.

I worked with polish guy who was in Ireland 3 years at that stage working among Irish people and he made no effort to learn any English or even converse.

I knew dozens of eastern europeans and only one was as you described. The rest were here to work and worked their asses off, often holding down more than one job.

I don't think anyone can call the Polish lazy, any of the ones I met were working with goals in mind and taking full advantage of the boom.

WinnyThePoo

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

Have you considered that they mightn't necessarily agree with you on that?
A very large proportion, likely a sizeable majority, of the immigrant population wouldn't.

They or you?

goose2005

NIMAN wrote: »

Its going to be a VERY long time before white Irish are in a minority in this country, in fact it ain't going to happen.

If you compare Ireland to the likes of the UK, we have hardly any non-nationals at all.

If you talked in 1970 about white Americans becoming a minority you'd be dismissed as a crank. Now it's accepted as becoming a reality by the 2040s.

There are only 6 million or so people in Ireland v. 7500 million people in the world; at present trends Ireland could easily be minority Irish before the end of the century

goose2005

Samaris wrote: »

There is a bit of irony to the Irish complaining about immigration. Not that we shouldn't be allowed to talk about it, just it is amusingly ironic.

In many cases, the natives were right to be concerned about Irish immigration. Areas of New York / boston which had been built up by Protestant Anglo-Americans were permanently displaced by a foreign people and religion.

goose2005

Board.surf wrote: »

You may want to read a history book. England isn't as old of a nation as people let on. It's made up of Norman's, Anglo saxons, prussians, Irish etc. After the collapse of Rome, the Inhabitants of Britain were completely seperate to those who immigrated there and now occupy the land.

Genetic studies say the opposite; that the people of Britain c. 1900 were by and large descended from the Stone Age settlers of Britain, and that any Roman/Anglo-Saxon/Norman/Viking contribution was fairly small.

BoatMad

goose2005 wrote: »

If you talked in 1970 about white Americans becoming a minority you'd be dismissed as a crank. Now it's accepted as becoming a reality by the 2040s.

There are only 6 million or so people in Ireland v. 7500 million people in the world; at present trends Ireland could easily be minority Irish before the end of the century

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/11/opinion/the-myth-of-a-white-minority.html

its not accepted as " a reality" only by those with an agenda to push

Raycyst

Beanntraigheach is making the point that it's wrong for Irish people to speak on behalf of Africans. Let Africans and others speak for themselves. Stop taking away their voice by speaking for them.

Many of the newcomers don't want to become Irish as they see Irish society as immoral and perhaps even as evil.

Why would they want to become a part of that?


If an Irish person visits Saudi Arabia it's not correct for the Saudis to assume that the Irish person is now more Saudi than the Saudis themselves.
Bizarre thinking.

BoatMad

goose2005 wrote: »

In many cases, the natives were right to be concerned about Irish immigration. Areas of New York / boston which had been built up by Protestant Anglo-Americans were permanently displaced by a foreign people and religion.

err, those Protestants were also " foreign "

BoatMad

Raycyst wrote: »

Beanntraigheach is making the point that it's wrong for Irish people to speak on behalf of Africans. Let Africans and others speak for themselves. Stop taking away their voice by speaking for them.

Many of the newcomers don't want to become Irish as they see Irish society as immoral and perhaps even as evil.

Why would they want to become a part of that?


If an Irish person visits Saudi Arabia it's not correct for the Saudis to assume that the Irish person is now more Saudi than the Saudis themselves.
Bizarre thinking.

the issue is the sweeping use of generalisations.

while I might accept your comments that " some " of the newcomers .......

without convincing hard facts , The use of the term " many " is based on your own biases and mistruths

ohnonotgmail

Raycyst wrote: »

Beanntraigheach is making the point that it's wrong for Irish people to speak on behalf of Africans. Let Africans and others speak for themselves. Stop taking away their voice by speaking for them.

Many of the newcomers don't want to become Irish as they see Irish society as immoral and perhaps even as evil.

Why would they want to become a part of that?


If an Irish person visits Saudi Arabia it's not correct for the Saudis to assume that the Irish person is now more Saudi than the Saudis themselves.
Bizarre thinking.

asks other posters to stop speaking for immigrants and then in the next sentence speaks for immigrants. oh the irony

Raycyst

The word is ironing.

I'm speculating rather than making definitive statements. I take the point on board though.


edit:
Actually, I remember now that I have seen marches in London with people holding up signs like, 'Death to infidels', and 'You will all become Muslim in the end', and others.

That's evidence that at least some people do reject our society.

ohnonotgmail

Raycyst wrote: »

The word is ironing.

I'm speculating rather than making definitive statements. I take the point on board though.


edit:
Actually, I remember now that I have seen marches in London with people holding up signs like, 'Death to infidels', and 'You will all become Muslim in the end', and others.

That's evidence that at least some people do reject our society.

ah so we are back to the muslim bashing. inevitable really.

BoatMad

Raycyst wrote: »

The word is ironing.

I'm speculating rather than making definitive statements. I take the point on board though.


edit:
Actually, I remember now that I have seen marches in London with people holding up signs like, 'Death to infidels', and 'You will all become Muslim in the end', and others.

That's evidence that at least some people do reject our society.

one will also attend marches where all sorts of crazy messages are held up

its not an indication of anything other then the person holding the board may ( or may not ) agree with the message on that board

thats as far as the generalisation can go

so what we've established is that in a march in London, a capital with millions of people, one or two people dont agree with that society

well blow me down

southstar

Raycyst wrote: »

Actually, something can be said about how people think.

We cannot say with certainty the exact thoughts that a person may have but we can perhaps predict the type of thoughts that they might have.

In other words, the distinction is between types of thoughts, and actual thoughts themselves.


Evolution creates a certain type of animal. Given that life is a struggle, evolution creates animals who are prepared to fight, and who are good at fighting. Evolution doesn't really create animals that are good at compromise or politics.




Therefore, any creature that is a product of evolution, including those on alien worlds if they exist, will have a tendency to fight and to be good at it.

Therefore, it is possible to say something about the types of thoughts an animal may have. Humans are animals too. Animals are likely to think about fighting when presented with problems.

Any problem with any of that?

You back on that meth again Raycyst

dav3

We get it lads, you're sounding like a broken record now.

The census results haven't gone the way a certain very very small, yet very very loud group of people would have hoped.

Imagine the shock on their racist, xenophobic, white nationalist and ethno-nationalist little faces when they found out there are more Irish, more white Irish and fewer non-Irish than were recorded in the last census.

All those years of telling us we’re being overrun by dark skinned people and the Irish becoming a minority were lies. Years of lies with nothing to show for it.

What's left for them? A desperate attempt to scaremonger by claiming white Irish, not Irish, only white Irish, are somehow in danger of becoming a minority. You'd almost feel sorry for them.

BoatMad

dav3 wrote: »

We get it lads, you're sounding like a broken record now.

The census results haven't gone the way a certain very very small, yet very very loud group of people would have hoped.

Imagine the shock on their racist, xenophobic, white nationalist and ethno-nationalist little faces when they found out there are more Irish, more white Irish and fewer non-Irish than were recorded in the last census.

All those years of telling us we’re being overrun by dark skinned people and the Irish becoming a minority were lies. Years of lies with nothing to show for it.

What's left for them? A desperate attempt to scaremonger by claiming white Irish, not Irish, only white Irish, are somehow in danger of becoming a minority. You'd almost feel sorry for them.

Indeed. for example the recent census showed that non national births increased by 17 K from the previous year ( 2015 -2016) while irish native births increased by 22K

even the previous year, 2014 2015 , Irish native births increased by 17K while non nationals increased by 15K

while the birth rate from the non national community is clearly much/somewhat higher then the native community , the greater numbers of irish natives and their brith rate ensure that no dominance of non nationals is remotely likely in Ireland, it would require an enormous increase in non natives and 50-60 years of hyper birth rates to even come close

Ireland has approx 500,000 non nationals , including 100K UK, 150-200K EU and 180-200K non EU , with irish emigration failing , the underlying native birthrate is now being seen, so at a 8 times domination of population and a birthrate of nearly 80% of non nationals, we arnt going non irish any day soon now , if ever !!!!

ah - facts , dont you just love em