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Would you be ok with white Irish becoming a minority?

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    #362
    Raycyst
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 143 ✭✭Raycyst


    Child abuse could be a value of the wider group.

    For example, if Islam allows child brides then child abuse is enshrined within Islam itself, and in that case, it is perfectly fine to tar all Muslims with the same brush. It's also perfectly fine in that case to say you don't want any muslims in Ireland, in the same way that people say they don't want any Nazis in Ireland.


    Why do Muslims refuse to speak out against child abuse?
    Is it because they tactily support the Koran, and if child abuse is allowed by the Koran, then they don't care what the secular law says?


    I say no to the deliberate destruction or dilution of Irish culture.


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    #363
    Sven Hassel
    Site Banned Posts: 96 ✭✭Sven Hassel


    Mass sex assaults and violence being reported at two German festivals over the weekend. A Swedish music festival has been cancelled due to the amount of sexual violence.

    You'll forgive me for wanting to live in homogeneous society.


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    #364
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Raycyst wrote: »
    Child abuse could be a value of the wider group.

    For example, if Islam allows child brides then child abuse is enshrined within Islam itself, and in that case, it is perfectly fine to tar all Muslims with the same brush. It's also perfectly fine in that case to say you don't want any muslims in Ireland, in the same way that people say they don't want any Nazis in Ireland.

    nope, wrong. child brides are illegal in ireland. child brides are also illegal in many countries including muslim ones, all though the practice is carried out in a few cultures. nice try though, but that still doesn't allow for bigotry toards muslims.
    Raycyst wrote: »
    Why do Muslims refuse to speak out against child abuse?
    Is it because they tactily support the Koran, and if child abuse is allowed by the Koran, then they don't care what the secular law says?

    the koran says muslims must abide by the law of the land.
    Raycyst wrote: »
    I say no to the deliberate destruction or dilution of Irish culture.

    what "destruction" of irish culture? dilution of "irish" culture happened thousands of years ago.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #365
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sven Hassel wrote: »
    Mass sex assaults and violence being reported at two German festivals over the weekend. A Swedish music festival has been cancelled due to the amount of sexual violence.

    and hopefully it will be insured the authorities arrest those responsible and lock them up.
    Sven Hassel wrote: »
    You'll forgive me for wanting to live in homogeneous society.

    no such thing. in fact, there never was.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #366
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Raycyst wrote: »
    Child abuse could be a value of the wider group.

    A value?
    Raycyst wrote: »
    For example, if Islam allows child brides then child abuse is enshrined within Islam itself, and in that case, it is perfectly fine to tar all Muslims with the same brush. It's also perfectly fine in that case to say you don't want any muslims in Ireland, in the same way that people say they don't want any Nazis in Ireland.

    Er not really. Religious texts mean what people want them to mean. Westboro Baptists, Mormons, Orthordox Christians are all the same religion, all practice very differently. Child brides are an aspect of backwards societies, irrespective of creed. Generally speaking, special allowances shouldn't be made based on faith, and it's probably an idea not to have distinct communities pop up within Ireland based upon mutual faith.
    Raycyst wrote: »
    Why do Muslims refuse to speak out against child abuse?
    Is it because they tactily support the Koran, and if child abuse is allowed by the Koran, then they don't care what the secular law says?

    That's more than a slight logical leap. Child brides are hardly an inherent aspect of Islam, nor are they exclusive to Islam! I can only think of one Islamic country where child brides are even legal.
    Raycyst wrote: »
    I say no to the deliberate destruction or dilution of Irish culture.

    I think society is a more pressing concern than culture. The only recent deliberate cultural destruction was of Viking artifacts and 18th century architecture in Dublin
    end of the road wrote: »
    no such thing. in fact, there never was.

    Smells a bit of no true Scotsman. Sliding scales of homogeneity (and complete homogeneity) are perfectly possible (well I doubt if Ireland has ever been 100% homogeneous, but some primitive societies certainly have been)


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    #367
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Smells a bit of no true Scotsman. Sliding scales of homogeneity (and complete homogeneity) are perfectly possible (well I doubt if Ireland has ever been 100% homogeneous, but some primitive societies certainly have been)

    It's a strange ole argument they raise. 88% of the DNA here comes from the same people who lived here in the neolithic era, and yet they seem to come to the conclusion that since we've had relatively minor influxes of new admixtures over the centuries that somehow we're racists for not wanting to be minorities in our own homes. The only time we had a large influx of foreigners was when they were planting Ulster, and we're steal dealing with that colossal fúck up 5 centuries on.

    You'll hear the pseudo-intellectual jibes about "damned vikings, damned celts, damned normans!" as though this vindicates their irrational belief that we haven't been a homogenous society.

    The country might not have been strictly 100% Irish in the 20th century, but it was most certainly overwhelmingly Irish, which is where the difference lies. We're not facing a small manageable influx, we've seen a fifth of our country become foreign within two decades. That's unprecedented, and entirely unsustainable.


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    #368
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    AnGaelach wrote: »

    You'll hear the pseudo-intellectual jibes about "damned vikings, damned celts, damned normans!" as though this vindicates their irrational belief that we haven't been a homogenous society.

    It took a damn long time for Normans to integrate (we can still identify surnames that are Norman in origin). However, as you point out, there hasn't been any large influx in the last 800 years outside of the plantations (and those outside of Ulster were small enough to be totally open to assimilation in the long-run)

    The only saving grace to the large scale immigration seen in recent years is that it's diverse in nature: there are too many separate countries of origin for ex-pat communities to form, in general, which puts them in a better position to be integrated. That could change though, going forward.


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    #369
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I couldn't give a bollocks about skin colour, but if people with Irish accents and an Irish cultural understanding became a minority that would be pretty weird all right.

    I already find it mildly irritating the way public transport is always jam packed full of loud Spanish speaking young'ins at this time of year :D


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    #370
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I couldn't give a bollocks about skin colour, but if people with Irish accents and an Irish cultural understanding became a minority that would be pretty weird all right.

    I already find it mildly irritating the way public transport is always jam packed full of loud Spanish speaking young'ins at this time of year :D
    Really? The most annoying thing I find about public transport concerning language is the fact that all information messages are repeated, or sometimes said first, in Irish. Not to mention the millions wasted on this translation nonsense year on year. Spanish is a world language, and Spanish students are good for the economy, and the country in terms of bringing culture and diversity.


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    #371
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    Really? The most annoying thing I find about public transport concerning language is the fact that all information messages are repeated, or sometimes said first, in Irish. Not to mention the millions wasted on this translation nonsense year on year. Spanish is a world language, and Spanish students are good for the economy, and the country in terms of bringing culture and diversity.

    irish is our national and native language. while it is not our spoken language, it is entitled to be part of the fabric of the country and must be preserved. i thought you want to preserve our culture?

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #372
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    end of the road wrote: »
    irish is our national and native language.
    It is a national language. However, a country does not have a native language. Citizens do. And for 99% of Irish citizens, English is their native language. Same as it was for their parents.
    while it is not our spoken language, it is entitled to be part of the fabric of the country and must be preserved. i thought you want to preserve our culture?
    There is an incredible entitlement surrounding the Irish language and its advocates in Irish society. Regarding preserving culture, the Irish language is just one facet of culture. And culture is constantly changing and evolving. The Irish language unfortunately is not simply a case of preserving culture. It is a case of a culture being forced upon the citizens of a country. Not unlike how the very same supporters of the language decry the English forcing their language on their ancestors.


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    #373
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    It is a national language. However, a country does not have a native language. Citizens do. And for 99% of Irish citizens, English is their native language. Same as it was for their parents.

    There is an incredible entitlement surrounding the Irish language and its advocates in Irish society. Regarding preserving culture, the Irish language is just one facet of culture. And culture is constantly changing and evolving. The Irish language unfortunately is not simply a case of preserving culture. It is a case of a culture being forced upon the citizens of a country. Not unlike how the very same supporters of the language decry the English forcing their language on their ancestors.

    Imagine Irish advocates in an Irish society in Ireland wanting to preserve the Irish language.. The audacity of us! How dare we respect our national and cultural heritage!


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    #374
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,498 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    end of the road wrote: »
    nope, wrong. child brides are illegal in ireland. child brides are also illegal in many countries including muslim ones, all though the practice is carried out in a few cultures. nice try though, but that still doesn't allow for bigotry toards muslims.



    the koran says muslims must abide by the law of the land.



    what "destruction" of irish culture? dilution of "irish" culture happened thousands of years ago.

    The Koran was made up by a deranged loon who said whatever was needed to ensure he got his way at the time, from growing the faith, to marrying a 6 yr old, sleeping with his soldier's wives, torturing people to find their treasure, sex slavery and on and on.

    It is why the Militant version of Islam is as legitimate a following of the faith as any other. They are following the Word and example, in their favour is the view which the lunatic also promulgated that later verses superseded earlier ones, they tend to be more militant and abusive as he gained power.


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    #375
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,498 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    It is a national language. However, a country does not have a native language. Citizens do. And for 99% of Irish citizens, English is their native language. Same as it was for their parents.
    There is an incredible entitlement surrounding the Irish language and its advocates in Irish society. Regarding preserving culture, the Irish language is just one facet of culture. And culture is constantly changing and evolving. The Irish language unfortunately is not simply a case of preserving culture. It is a case of a culture being forced upon the citizens of a country. Not unlike how the very same supporters of the language decry the English forcing their language on their ancestors.

    A view from Punch Magazine?


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    #376
    Sven Hassel
    Site Banned Posts: 96 ✭✭Sven Hassel


    end of the road wrote: »
    and hopefully it will be insured the authorities arrest those responsible and lock them up.



    no such thing. in fact, there never was.

    I hope so too though I sure the unaccompanied 'minor's will have little to worry about. The fact is taharush sex attacks are becoming normailsed in Europe. This is the price we're so supposed to pay for immigration?

    I don't agree with your second point. Compare a country like Poland with Sweden and you will see the difference between homogeneous and heterogeneous societies.


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    #377
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    I feel that a solution to the world's failed states most of which happen to be Islamic nations in the Middle East and Africa is needed. I am not a racist but where does all this influx of people from these failed states end? I can see where vile terrorism has its roots. These people's countries are uprooted by the West's wars and proxy wars. Then, they flee and come to places like here. I have been to hotels that house these refugees in Cork and Limerick doing charity work and can see the anger in these people. I felt unsafe at times and it is not the solution to house these there indefinitely. Sort out their own countries and stop all this stupid meddling is the only answer.


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    #378
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    Imagine Irish advocates in an Irish society in Ireland wanting to preserve the Irish language.. The audacity of us! How dare we respect our national and cultural heritage!
    The Irish language is only one part of Irish culture, and not a part of a person's DNA, however much you wish it were the case. The Irish language is "your" national and cultural heritage because you choose it to be. There are thousands upon thousands of Irish people for whom it is not, and for whom it means absolutely nothing. These people have no love for, or affiliation with, the Irish language, and would be grateful at some stage if even aside from forcing the Irish language on them, you at least had the intellect and courtesy to acknowledge that they do not value or worship the language in the way you do, and have entirely different cultures and heritage with which they are happy with.


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    #379
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    Imagine Irish advocates in an Irish society in Ireland wanting to preserve the Irish language.. The audacity of us! How dare we respect our national and cultural heritage!


    To be fair, the majority of Irish people don't speak Irish. The English language is a bigger part of our culture, and yes, even cultural inheritance than that which is recorded in the Irish language (actually that's an understatement). Don't get me wrong, preservation of the language is very worth while, but it's not the national language. You can blame the aforementioned immigration from Normans for that.
    Danzy wrote: »
    The Koran was made up by a deranged loon

    A deranged loon he was not, he was a very capable military leader (though you're free to disagree with the book he penned).


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    #380
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    BuilderPlumber wrote: »
    I feel that a solution to the world's failed states most of which happen to be Islamic nations in the Middle East and Africa is needed. I am not a racist but where does all this influx of people from these failed states end? I can see where vile terrorism has its roots. These people's countries are uprooted by the West's wars and proxy wars. Then, they flee and come to places like here. I have been to hotels that house these refugees in Cork and Limerick doing charity work and can see the anger in these people. I felt unsafe at times and it is not the solution to house these there indefinitely. Sort out their own countries and stop all this stupid meddling is the only answer.

    It would also help if the numerous NGOs, charities and business people stopped bringing them in just to milk massive Government subsides and contracts it's money maker these days for all bar the frontline line staff


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    #381
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    Would be fascinated to know how many posts on this thread contain the phrase, "I'm not a racist, but......"

    As if racists ever admit to being racist.....:-)


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    #382
    fisgon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭fisgon


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    So you're saying we should be more like India - where women are gangraped by hundreds of men on buses, or the US where we can't seem to go a week without a riot because a white cop shot a black kid?

    Yeah I'd rather not be anything like them if that's alright with you. If you want multiculturalism, take yourself to those areas instead of bringing those areas to us.

    "Hundreds of men on buses"? Really? They must have big buses in India, or are you maybe indulging in a bit of hyperbole?

    You seem to be saying that there are some problems in some multicultural societies. Wow, that is really profound. Does that mean that there are no rapes or shootings in societies that are of one ethnicity? That if we just have a nice cosy, one colour, one nationality country, then all our problems are solved? No sexual violence, no killings. That is fantasy and utter delusion.

    Are these rapes in India caused by there being more than one ethnicity in the country? No, of course they are not, your point - if you could even call it that - is nonsense.

    Let's remember, we already had a pure, Irish, white country, from the 1920s to recently. And this was the poorest country in western Europe, with a society controlled by one particular church, which treated many of our own citizens with contempt, especially anyone who stepped out of line. This KKK fantasy of everything working perfectly if only every race would just stay apart is laughable and visibly false.


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    #383
    Sven Hassel
    Site Banned Posts: 96 ✭✭Sven Hassel


    fisgon wrote: »
    "Hundreds of men on buses"? Really? They must have big buses in India, or are you maybe indulging in a bit of hyperbole?

    You seem to be saying that there are some problems in some multicultural societies. Wow, that is really profound. Does that mean that there are no rapes or shootings in societies that are of one ethnicity? That if we just have a nice cosy, one colour, one nationality country, then all our problems are solved? No sexual violence, no killings. That is fantasy and utter delusion.

    Are these rapes in India caused by there being more than one ethnicity in the country? No, of course they are not, your point - if you could even call it that - is nonsense.

    Let's remember, we already had a pure, Irish, white country, from the 1920s to recently. And this was the poorest country in western Europe, with a society controlled by one particular church, which treated many of our own citizens with contempt, especially anyone who stepped out of line. This KKK fantasy of everything working perfectly if only every race would just stay apart is laughable and visibly false.

    The point is importing thousands and thousands of young men from societies where women are treated like **** is dangerous to the host society.


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    #384
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    fisgon wrote: »
    Would be fascinated to know how many posts on this thread contain the phrase, "I'm not a racist, but......"

    As if racists ever admit to being racist.....:-)

    Could you help us out there please? What is your definition of a racist?
    Has it something to do with respect?


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    #385
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    The Irish language is only one part of Irish culture, and not a part of a person's DNA, however much you wish it were the case. The Irish language is "your" national and cultural heritage because you choose it to be. There are thousands upon thousands of Irish people for whom it is not, and for whom it means absolutely nothing. These people have no love for, or affiliation with, the Irish language, and would be grateful at some stage if even aside from forcing the Irish language on them, you at least had the intellect and courtesy to acknowledge that they do not value or worship the language in the way you do, and have entirely different cultures and heritage with which they are happy with.

    The language was reduced through the exertion of political will, and it can only be restored through a likewise means. Language advocates have every right to maintain their position on the use of Irish, particularly when the State fails to even live up to its own responsibilities to support the language.

    People don't really care if you personally don't speak it, what we care about is that those of us who do speak it (and I'm not particularly well versed myself) aren't given the opportunity to do so. Only the other day, RTÉ did their interviews for a position requiring "Gaeilge líofa" through fúcking English and their excuse being "most of the panel" was competent in Irish (meaning that one of them was probably fluent and the others hadn't spoken it since their days of sitting an exam at higher level).

    English isn't in threat of falling out of use, so acting as though you're a persecuted majority is a bit farcical. Irish is in danger of falling out of use, the last census showed a reversal in the number of total speakers again.

    You being slightly inconvenienced by the Irish-language lobby is a bit less of an issue than the existential threat to the language at present.

    RandomName2 wrote: »
    To be fair, the majority of Irish people don't speak Irish. The English language is a bigger part of our culture, and yes, even cultural inheritance than that which is recorded in the Irish language (actually that's an understatement). Don't get me wrong, preservation of the language is very worth while, but it's not the national language. You can blame the aforementioned immigration from Normans for that.

    https://www.constitution.ie/Documents/Bhunreacht_na_hEireann_web.pdf
    ARTICLE 8
    1 The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.


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    #386
    friedhof
    Site Banned Posts: 29 ✭friedhof


    at first i have to admit i was a bit racist and didn't want refugees coming into ireland,

    after seeing manchester, berlin, cologne, nice paris, rochdale etc,

    BUT then i discovered that our wonderful minister MISTER SIMON COVENEY "INNOCENT" Is 100 % pro- refugee,

    now i know mr coveney is getting paid massive money to undermine iriish sociaety but just look at him, he is suck a snuggly looking bunny, pure innocent,

    therefore i say, let us follow moneybags coveney, open the borders, fukkk the consiquneces


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    #387
    friedhof
    Site Banned Posts: 29 ✭friedhof


    death to coveney, traitor


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    #388
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    friedhof wrote: »
    at first i have to admit i was a bit racist and didn't want refugees coming into ireland,

    after seeing manchester, berlin, cologne, nice paris, rochdale etc,

    BUT then i discovered that our wonderful minister MISTER SIMON COVENEY "INNOCENT" Is 100 % pro- refugee,

    now i know mr coveney is getting paid massive money to undermine iriish sociaety but just look at him, he is suck a snuggly looking bunny, pure innocent,

    therefore i say, let us follow moneybags coveney, open the borders, fukkk the consiquneces

    I think there is a big difference in being racist and being aware of a threat. When a threat exists, it must be recognised and it is at present very foolish to take all refugees at face value. It is a very different situation to the refugees from say the Vietnam and Cambodia conflicts or the former Yugoslavia. There are dangerous organisations who are virtually at war with every nation on earth and there are plenty foolish, misguided individuals who will follow them blindly, pose as refugees, entrench themselves in society and then plan awful terrorist events.

    Sadly, I can see 2 extremes in Ireland with regard to refugees. First of all there are the racists who want to close our borders completely and who cite terrorist acts as reasons for having no refugees in Ireland. Then, the other extreme, are those people who go out of their way to befriend refugees in hostels, etc. to the point of obsession and drop their Irish friends and often put their lives in danger. I feel the middle ground is needed and the cause of the problem of why so many nations on earth have become hellholes. Not so long ago, it was only a handful of Subsaharan African states and Afghanistan that were failed states but now it is the likes of Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria that are joining them, countries that were once relatively ok. We of course are fully aware of what happened to many of these. Poor American and Western policy.


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    #389
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    There are no records in the history of the world of where mass immigration worked out well for the indigenous population. It has never been done. It has a 100% fail rate.

    Thats not true. Plenty of european and american cities have become majority immigrants and their descendants and theyre still fine places to live. Im in vancouver right now which was majority british and irish descent not that long ago..now its around half chinese and south asian descent. And its one of the most peaceful cities on earth

    Honestly the idea of ireland becoming majority non white used to freak me out a bit! because its most definitely a possibility in the future. But really once you start to visit a lot of ethnically diverse cities you just see that it generally works out, you begin to not even notice that everyone is different colours


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    #390
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    AnGaelach wrote: »

    The country might not have been strictly 100% Irish in the 20th century, but it was most certainly overwhelmingly Irish, which is where the difference lies. We're not facing a small manageable influx, we've seen a fifth of our country become foreign within two decades. That's unprecedented, and entirely unsustainable.

    So what?
    I 've also no idea what you mean by unsustainable.

    You are what you are - it doesn't matter who is beside you. If you go to Spain on holiday, you're suddenly in a part of a tiny minority of Irish people in Spain - what difference does that make?
    None whatsoever!

    Culture is supposed to evolve and change with the times - being Irish in 100 years will mean something different than being Irish now and so it should. A set in stone, fixed "culture" that's so fragile it needs special protection from the outside world is just not worth saving.

    It's akin to travellers pining over horse drawn caravans and mending pots and pans, like it was some glorious era that is a loss to the world - that ship has sailed - move the fúck on!

    Every 5th person here now is from somewhere else - there are challenges but there are also opportunities and to put it bluntly I think all these foreigners have improved the place overall.

    Take off the rose tinted (or are the emerald tinted?) glasses and you'll realise that the Ireland of 30, 40, 50 years ago wasn't all that great a place to be, as can be attested to by the constant stream of people leaving! Go back 100, 200 years and it was much, much worse. Things are a lot better now, despite austerity, despite foreigners taking our jobs and our women, and despite the lamentable decline of comely maidens dancing at the cross roads.


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    #391
    Sven Hassel
    Site Banned Posts: 96 ✭✭Sven Hassel


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    So what?
    I 've also no idea what you mean by unsustainable.

    You are what you are - it doesn't matter who is beside you. If you go to Spain on holiday, you're suddenly in a part of a tiny minority of Irish people in Spain - what difference does that make?
    None whatsoever!

    Culture is supposed to evolve and change with the times - being Irish in 100 years will mean something different than being Irish now and so it should. A set in stone, fixed "culture" that's so fragile it needs special protection from the outside world is just not worth saving.

    It's akin to travellers pining over horse drawn caravans and mending pots and pans, like it was some glorious era that is a loss to the world - that ship has sailed - move the fúck on!

    Every 5th person here now is from somewhere else - there are challenges but there are also opportunities and to put it bluntly I think all these foreigners have improved the place overall.

    Take off the rose tinted (or are the emerald tinted?) glasses and you'll realise that the Ireland of 30, 40, 50 years ago wasn't all that great a place to be, as can be attested to by the constant stream of people leaving! Go back 100, 200 years and it was much, much worse. Things are a lot better now, despite austerity, despite foreigners taking our jobs and our women, and despite the lamentable decline of comely maidens dancing at the cross roads.

    Way to miss the point. No one is saying there should be no foreigners. The problem is mass immigration from the third world is damaging to Europe i.e. ghettos, gang wars, sexual violence acid attacks. This could have been avoided if our glorious leaders had chosen the path of controlled migration.


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