Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

djPSB

Actually think the AOS tactic worked out quite well for Mayo.

Rochford believes in hammering the hammer. Taking out the key threat.

Too many times in the past has Donaghy destroyed Mayo on his own. That was avoided yesterday and gave Mayo a platform to win the game.

Sebastian Dangerfield

kilns wrote: »

From a Mayo point of view is it not worrying that the majority of scoring is coming from a veteran in Andy Moran, you cant rely on him to perform week in week out and if he isnt getting the scores you have no one else capable of contributing a decent tally from play.

Only two more weeks needed!

threein99

djPSB wrote: »

Actually think the AOS tactic worked out quite well for Mayo.

Rochford believes in hammering the hammer. Taking out the key threat.

Too many times in the past has Donaghy destroyed Mayo on his own. That was avoided yesterday and gave Mayo a platform to win the game.

He was involved in 2-04 of 2-13, the move half worked in that the aerial threat wasn't an issue but O Shea was 10 yards off him at times, he should have stood beside him not like hes going to do him for pace

Squatman

jr86 wrote: »

I had this discussion with myself on the bus home.

I think all in all it did work. To an extent.

My memories of 2014 of him are all too vivid - plucking balls out of the sky and laying them off to JOD to bang into the net. Thankfully this was never going to happen today

I'm not sure we lost all that much up front. I thought - like yourself - Vaughan attacked superbly and he was never ever a man marker. Andy cut loose altogether inside - he wouldn't have got near as much service with Aido FF

That said Aidan could not get close to him as he drifted out and won ball - but that's where you want Donaghy...away from the goal

It might be controversial but id be half tempted put keegan on donaghy. Put Durcan in Lee's role and keep Higgins sweeping. I think Aido will offer us a lot more up the pitch and draw plenty of frees. but credit to Rochford for being ballsy

Why would you think anyone would give aido a free. people incessantly hanging off him yesterday. Kerrys dark arts were very impressive yesterday. notably the strike on diarmuid o connor, which by the rules is a red card offence as experience by leeroy in 2014 1st drawn game. the strike took place behind the refs back as he was booking kevin mcloughlin. They did a lot of that yesterday

SomethingElse

kilns wrote: »

From a Mayo point of view is it not worrying that the majority of scoring is coming from a veteran in Andy Moran, you cant rely on him to perform week in week out and if he isnt getting the scores you have no one else capable of contributing a decent tally from play.

It's not worrying at all. We play two men inside, Andy and Cillian, so it's natural that they will contribute most of our scores. Andy's place has been under pressure recently, with young Loftus waiting in the wings.

munster87

threein99 wrote: »

He was involved in 2-04 of 2-13, the move half worked in that the aerial threat wasn't an issue but O Shea was 10 yards off him at times, he should have stood beside him not like hes going to do him for pace

He doesn't know how to play full back is the problem

Squatman

kilns wrote: »

From a Mayo point of view is it not worrying that the majority of scoring is coming from a veteran in Andy Moran, you cant rely on him to perform week in week out and if he isnt getting the scores you have no one else capable of contributing a decent tally from play.

Yes, this point was backed up by cillian o connor, jason doherty, colm boyle, donal vaughan, paddy durcan, tom parsons - they all scored nothing. :cool:

worrying for kerry that they relied on all their scores from frees. w
worrying for kerry that the relied on paul geaney for all their points... worrying worrying worrying

DDC1990

MayoAreMagic wrote:

One thing I will say is the ref and particularly umpires bottled a 100% nailed on penalty decision at a time when Kerry were on the rack. There should be far more about this in the media, yet the Kerry media lads are on the offensive on the AOS decision. BJ Padden and co would want to stand up and be counted here. Don't let them set the narrative.

Cillian O'Connor was in the square before the ball came into him from Andy Moran's scuffed shot. Should have been a free out before Mark Griffin touched it on the ground. Rules are there for both sides.

PARlance

munster87 wrote: »

He doesn't know how to play full back is the problem

That doesn't stop Kerry's full back line.

threein99

munster87 wrote: »

He doesn't know how to play full back is the problem

Yeah you could see how easily he lost him, if for some crazy reason they do that again the next day they should just say stick tight to him at all times but for Mayos sake I hope they dont play him there again.

seligehgit

Off the Ball GAA Podcast.

https://cdn.radiocms.net/media/001/audio/000032/201753_media_player_audio_file.mp3.

Stephen Rochford was pretty annoyed alright,I was listening to it live on the drive home.

Going to finally give the match a watch back.

kilns

Squatman wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

From a Mayo point of view is it not worrying that the majority of scoring is coming from a veteran in Andy Moran, you cant rely on him to perform week in week out and if he isnt getting the scores you have no one else capable of contributing a decent tally from play.

Yes, this point was backed up by cillian o connor, jason doherty, colm boyle, donal vaughan, paddy durcan, tom parsons - they all scored nothing. :cool:

worrying for kerry that they relied on all their scores from frees. w
worrying for kerry that the relied on paul geaney for all their points... worrying worrying worrying

How often do some of those normally contribute scores?  A good defence and decent marker and Moran will struggle for scores.  COC is quite easily marked out of a game by a decent defender in open play. 
I am just pointing it out its a worry for Mayo as Kerry will try and plan not to give Moran that much space again next time and it could be Mayo that are relying on frees from OConnor. 
If Rochford wants to throw in a curve ball, he should switch O'Shea to full forward and he could have more of an influence on the game from there.
To be honest, sacrificing your best player on form this year to mark a 34 year old way past his best shows defeatism.

seligehgit

Terrace Talk should be interesting,Varys shall be tuning in tonight.:)

SomethingElse

kilns wrote: »

How often do some of those normally contribute scores?  A good defence and decent marker and Moran will struggle for scores.  COC is quite easily marked out of a game by a decent defender in open play. 
I am just pointing it out its a worry for Mayo as Kerry will try and plan not to give Moran that much space again next time and it could be Mayo that are relying on frees from OConnor. 
If Rochford wants to throw in a curve ball, he should switch O'Shea to full forward and he could have more of an influence on the game from there.
To be honest, sacrificing your best player on form this year to mark a 34 year old way past his best shows defeatism.

Yes because Kerry actually planned to give Moran space last day out. In reality, it's a reflection of where their full back line is.

Putting extra resources there to stop the threat inside will open up the field further out and play to Mayo's strengths - broken field running where our half backs attack through the middle.

Fr Tod Umptious

seligehgit wrote: »

Terrace Talk should be interesting,Varys shall be tuning in tonight.:)

I can't wait for it.

reap-a-rat

kilns wrote: »

How often do some of those normally contribute scores?  A good defence and decent marker and Moran will struggle for scores.  COC is quite easily marked out of a game by a decent defender in open play. 
I am just pointing it out its a worry for Mayo as Kerry will try and plan not to give Moran that much space again next time and it could be Mayo that are relying on frees from OConnor. 
If Rochford wants to throw in a curve ball, he should switch O'Shea to full forward and he could have more of an influence on the game from there.
To be honest, sacrificing your best player on form this year to mark a 34 year old way past his best shows defeatism.

Andy has 2-20 from play this year, and Cillian has 3-14 from play which seems pretty good for your 2 inside forwards - just over 3 points per game for Andy and just under 3 per game for Cillian. Mayo have scored 14-91 from play over the 8 games they have played, and there's been 19 different scorers.

Diarmuid and Kevin Mc have 2-05 each, Doherty has 1-07, Keegan has 1-06, Durcan has 0-08, AOS has 0-07, Higgins has 1-02, Parsons has 0-04, Boyle and Loftus have 1-01 each, Boland has 0-03, Nally and Vaughan both have 0-02 and then Barrett, Coen, Kirby and Drake have 0-01 each.

It doesn't matter where the scores come from as long as they come - if Andy normally scored 3 points in a game, but the next day out he only gets 1 I don't think it matters so long as someone like Boyle or Vaughan could chip in with a point each.

I think Diarmuid is having a dire year, but he's scored in 6 out of 8 games. Kevin Mc and Doc have also scored in 6 out of 8 games. Considering AOS is normally out around the middle either providing the ball in or getting fouled, it seems pretty good that out of the other 6 starting forwards, 2 have scored in every game and 3 have scored in 75% of games. (Doc might not have started one of those).

There's always the talk about "Where will the scores come from" and "Mayo lack a marquee forward" but Geaney is averaging just under 4 points a game and O'Brien and JOD are averaging 2 points a game (from play), with Kieran Donaghy averaging just over a point a game. Similar to Mayo, they've got players all over the pitch chipping in with the rest from play plus Geaney and JOD on the frees. Just had a rough look at Dublin's scorers too, Mannion has 0-12 from play in 4 games, so again averaging 3 from play, and then there's a mad mix of scorers aside from that.

I've no point as such; I just wanted to highlight that as long as you score enough, it doesn't matter. Mayo have won 5 of their 8 games because they scored more than the other team and at the end of the day, that is what it is about. If we win the next day 0-01 to 0-00 from a David Clarke kickout carrying in the wind, that is fine by me. Only way we have a chance to win Sam is if we are in the final. How we get there doesn't matter.

Oldtree

djPSB wrote: »

They also criticised AOS for not following Donaghy out the field for the first goal. AOS played it 100% correctly. He stayed back to mind the house rather than leaving 40 years free in front of Clarke. There was nothing AOS could have done about that goal.

The real problem was that no one tracked O Brien's run which created a 2 v 1 situation.

Yes agreed. imo always try to focus on forcing the point when outnumbered rather than give a goal. Drives me mental when players run out potentially leaving the goalie 1 on 1. Too easy to pass to someone coming in over the head of the outgoing player. See it all the time in underage with coaches telling them to run out its a 50/50 ball (my arse). even with 3 on 2, or 4 on 3 force the fecking point!

Goal here was unfortunate.

jasonroche123

finisklin wrote: »

I note that Fergal Boland and Evan Regan were not included in the match day panel. Thankfully, the rumour of Barry Moran taking up Donaghy did not materialise.

The inclusion of Alan Dillon at the expense of Boland and Regan shows how conservative Rochford is. These are future players.

Having said that the subs he used were safe players.

Boland not being there does not surprise me - I don't think he offers anything any of the rest can't. As for Reagan I'm disappointed as I thought he hasn't got a fair craic at it.

charlie14

threein99 wrote: »

He was involved in 2-04 of 2-13, the move half worked in that the aerial threat wasn't an issue but O Shea was 10 yards off him at times, he should have stood beside him not like hes going to do him for pace

I made it 2-06 he was involved in myself and I don`t believe it worked at all in that there was an aerial threat in that with O Shea in there, Kerry didn`t play in high ball.
It was a miss- match that didn`t work out in that their is more to a good full forward and a good full back than just fielding high ball in the square.
They are both specialised positions and other than fielding, one that O Shea does not have the skillset for.
1-06 by my count that Donaghy contributed too had nothing to do with high ball in, but saying that the worrying point as I see it is from a Mayo point of view is the other goal he contributed too.
The one time O Shea was absent Kerry used the high ball into Donaghy. Take O Shea off him for the replay, and Kerry most likely will go route one all day long and have two forward as company for Donaghy looking to feed off it.

seligehgit

charlie14 wrote: »

I made it 2-06 he was involved in myself and I don`t believe it worked at all in that there was an aerial threat in that with O Shea in there, Kerry didn`t play in high ball.
It was a miss- match that didn`t work out in that their is more to a good full forward and a good full back than just fielding high ball in the square.
They are both specialised positions and other than fielding, one that O Shea does not have the skillset for.
1-06 by my count that Donaghy contributed too had nothing to do with high ball in, but saying that the worrying point as I see it is from a Mayo point of view is the other goal he contributed too.
The one time O Shea was absent Kerry used the high ball into Donaghy. Take O Shea off him for the replay, and Kerry most likely will go route one all day long and have two forward as company for Donaghy looking to feed off it.

Fair point but who's to say an abrasive,physical player like Donie Vaughan can't compete with Donaghy?

He's has the positional sense of a back and won't stand off Donaghy.He's got the mobility and won't be as easily beaten on the turn and can compete on the low ball.

Shurimgreat

The problem with the Donaghy-AOS match up was a lack of cover on the ground on front of Donaghy. Dublin usually double mark him. While we mightnt need to double mark him we definitely need a sweeper in the area in front of him.

Blud

kilns wrote: »

How often do some of those normally contribute scores?  A good defence and decent marker and Moran will struggle for scores.  COC is quite easily marked out of a game by a decent defender in open play. 
I am just pointing it out its a worry for Mayo as Kerry will try and plan not to give Moran that much space again next time and it could be Mayo that are relying on frees from OConnor. 
If Rochford wants to throw in a curve ball, he should switch O'Shea to full forward and he could have more of an influence on the game from there.
To be honest, sacrificing your best player on form this year to mark a 34 year old way past his best shows defeatism.

This is becoming a cliche now for people who can't figure out why Mayo are failing to win the All Ireland. It's lazy analysis.

Our two inside men are COC and Moran. Between them they scored 15 points against Cork, and no one raised a peep about our lack of a marquee forward. They scored 1-9 yesterday and set up pretty much everything else between them, and you have lads on RTÉ radio after the game complaining about the half forwards not scoring and you asking where else will the scores come from.

We can't please anyone it seems, so we'll just get on with doing what we're doing.

kilns

SomethingElse wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

How often do some of those normally contribute scores?  A good defence and decent marker and Moran will struggle for scores.  COC is quite easily marked out of a game by a decent defender in open play. 
I am just pointing it out its a worry for Mayo as Kerry will try and plan not to give Moran that much space again next time and it could be Mayo that are relying on frees from OConnor. 
If Rochford wants to throw in a curve ball, he should switch O'Shea to full forward and he could have more of an influence on the game from there.
To be honest, sacrificing your best player on form this year to mark a 34 year old way past his best shows defeatism.

Yes because Kerry actually planned to give Moran space last day out. In reality, it's a reflection of where their full back line is.

Putting extra resources there to stop the threat inside will open up the field further out and play to Mayo's strengths - broken field running where our half backs attack through the middle.

I bet he surprised them (and everyone outside Mayo)by scoring 1-5  though, I am sure they will close that down with a sweeper the next day which may invite the running game more as it would force balls into the corners instead which Moran and COC dont have the pace for

threein99

charlie14 wrote: »

I made it 2-06 he was involved in myself and I don`t believe it worked at all in that there was an aerial threat in that with O Shea in there, Kerry didn`t play in high ball.
It was a miss- match that didn`t work out in that their is more to a good full forward and a good full back than just fielding high ball in the square.
They are both specialised positions and other than fielding, one that O Shea does not have the skillset for.
1-06 by my count that Donaghy contributed too had nothing to do with high ball in, but saying that the worrying point as I see it is from a Mayo point of view is the other goal he contributed too.
The one time O Shea was absent Kerry used the high ball into Donaghy. Take O Shea off him for the replay, and Kerry most likely will go route one all day long and have two forward as company for Donaghy looking to feed off it.

Kerry were probably discouraged from kicking it in once they seen AOS on him so there is no real stat to show how it effected the game. Its not like hitting Donaghy with aerial ball is Kerrys only attacking ploy anyway.

tayto lover

Could Mayo not use Seamus O'Shea as a full forward to break the ball like Donaghy does?
He hasn't been much use for anywhere else and was responsible for several Kerry scores yesterday.

km79

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fool-s-errand-aidan-o-shea-out-of-his-depth-in-defence-1.3192519

1st paragraph sums up my feelings about Rochford after yday

charlie14

seligehgit wrote: »

Fair point but who's to say an abrasive,physical player like Donie Vaughan can't compete with Donaghy?

He's has the positional sense of a back and won't stand off Donaghy.He's got the mobility and won't be as easily beaten on the turn and can compete on the low ball.

If it was up to me yesterday I would have put Vaughan on him with someone sweeping in front of Donaghy, but looking back at it that would have negated the cover Vaughan gave yesterday and the drive he gave Mayo going forward.

What impressed me with Donaghy yesterday was his football brain and his use of the ball.
With O Shea for company he didn`t stay inside looking for the high ball in. He knew O Shea hadn`t the fullback skills other than fielding and roamed, only once, as far as I recall, looking for the high ball in when O Shea was out of position resulting the Kerry second goal.

Vaughan has the skill set to follow him if he attempts that again, but from how Donaghy played yesterday I would now be very wary of him not having that other talent of a good full forward.
Playing decoy just to pull a full back and sweeper all over the place leaving the square exposed.

There has been a lot of unfair criticism imo of Rochford in the media.
When it comes to Donaghy, and how he is playing this year, it is very much a case of damned if you do and damned if you don`t.

charlie14

threein99 wrote: »

Kerry were probably discouraged from kicking it in once they seen AOS on him so there is no real stat to show how it effected the game. Its not like hitting Donaghy with aerial ball is Kerrys only attacking ploy anyway.

There is a stat of 2-06 that Donaghy contributed too from being a clever full forward knowing that other than fielding his designated markers only talent for the full back position was high fielding though.

spurscormac

charlie14 wrote: »

There is a stat of 2-06 that Donaghy contributed too from being a clever full forward knowing that other than fielding his designated markers only talent for the full back position was high fielding though.

Had enough of these false stats on Donaghy's impact.
He had no part in the second goal, the ball was broken down by a Mayo player, Moran gathered the loose ball, shot, Clarke saved, and Buckley followed in and got the goal.

Donaghy didn't touch it.

charlie14

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The problem with the Donaghy-AOS match up was a lack of cover on the ground on front of Donaghy. Dublin usually double mark him. While we mightnt need to double mark him we definitely need a sweeper in the area in front of him.

Dublin have a specialist full back though.
Something Mayo are lacking right now and which Donaghy took full advantage off yesterday.
There is more to being a full back that simply placing a big man at the edge of the square.